277 replies to this topic

[BloodLegacy]

The answer is simple, quality games simply cost too damn much to produce these days, so producers tell developers when their done so they can turn a profit rather than developers telling producers when its done. The only real exceptions these days are developer/producer supergiants like Bethesda and Nintendo who can have the funds and name to ensure profitability.

Then we see Developer/Producers like Square-Enix totally ruin themselves because they didn't follow Bethesda and Nintendo's example of waiting till a game was done to publish and think they can rest on the laurels of their name.

Games have taken back seat to profitability. Support independent Developers like guys at 2Dawn games who used a Kickstarter campaign to self publish their game.

[TheMysteriousGX]

Artgathan, on 13 August 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

If we're simply using the bug count as a measure of quality then of course games have gotten worse for one simple reason: they got more complex.

Think about it. On really old games, ones that played on a floppy disc, developers had a whopping 240MB (in 1999, when they were on the out) to program with. That's not very much coding to do, or to proofread. So bugs were easier to find and take out. Compare that to games that are nowadays routinely larger than 4GB. That's a chunk of code 17X larger than that of games of yore: of course more bugs make it through. Even the largest CDs could only hold about 900MB.

I would be willing to bet that the average number of bugs per 100MB of data has remained constant (or possibly even dropped a bit recently), but due to the sheer size of new releases the number of bugs steadily increases.

Thank you! I was just about to lose hope that someone would bring that up. An average mini map has more lines of code than Doom these days.

As for how fun games are, well, that's like, your opinion, pilot.

[Brenden]

I remember when there was a time where a kid walking into a Video Gaming Store or Blockbuster, would be filled with joy beyond comprehension: Video games, Consoles as far as the eye can see, of all different qualities an styles. I remember when I first went to one such place, the gamer haven that so many people of my time used to hang out at. The Sega Genesis, the Commador 64, The Nintendo Entertainment System, The Atari 2600, the list goes on. There were so many classics, so many choices, most of which were all good. There were some that were, shall we say unable to bring to mind the idea of this being fun, but those were too few and far inbetween.

As I began to age into the twenty-first century, I retired my Sega, my NES, to the shelves and picked up an Xbox. I thought it was one of the greatest game stations I have ever played. I still remember, the very first game I played was Wolfenstein, return to castle. That game had me on the edge of my footaung. As I grew, I was unable to distinguish which games where good and which were bad, unless they were on the far end of the spectrum, for my creative and imaginary-side of my childhood was locked away.

Now as I see, starting several years ago, what has happened to my once favorite hobby, I have abandoned the 360; given it to a neighbor boy, and brought out my NES, my Sega and my Laptop. Sure, it might not have the fancy graphics of the Frostbite engine, and the games might not have the destructable enviroment so many have loved and fawned over in Battlefield, but I love them so for what they represent: A Golden Age in video gaming, and the Silver Age as well.

It makes me sad, that this video game industry has become nothing more than...
... Sh|t.

[Zakatak]

I don't think the games themselves have got any worse, it's just that corporations have gotten hungrier for money which is kind of ruining the experience for us, now that you have to pay twice the price of the game to get all of it. Call of Duty is not "all modern games", there are many fantastic titles (and garbage) being pumped out as there was 10 years ago.

What I wanna know is what happened to TV. Why do all the great shows get milked for money until they are unbearable (The Office, Family Guy) or cancelled despite being masterpieces (Firefly, Megas XLR, SG Universe)? Why are they being replaced by vomit-worthy *ahem* "reality" shows that are nothing but a ripoff of recent successes (Storage Wars is followed by 4 other storage purchasing shows within 1 year, srsly). I hate TV today, I can't stand it. It is horrible.

[Vieric]

TV sucks because the higher-ups have gotten hungrier for money there too. And I think most of us know how out of touch with reality they can be.

Edited by Vieric, 13 August 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[Brenden]

Vieric, on 13 August 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

TV sucks because the higher-ups have gotten hungrier for money there too. And I think most of us know how out of touch with reality they can be.

Remember when the M in MTV didn't stand for Maternity?

[Vieric]

I keep trying to act like MTV doesn't exist to retain what little faith in humanity I have left...It's a tough job.

[Connatic]

Quote

I still remember back in the days when I bought a game it was actually working as intended, and the gameplay was fun and entertaining.

I also remember back in the day when games had bugs or balance issues and we were stuck with them because you can't patch a cartridge. Sure, the fact that it's easy to release patches have made some companies more "lazy" as far as releasing finished products, but some of you seem to have forgotten every bad game you have ever played 10+ years ago. Not to mention games have gotten steadily cheaper, especially with indie games and digital distribution becoming so popular.

My friend, I think what you might be wearing are those rose-tinted glasses I keep hearing about.

Quote

It makes me sad, that this video game industry has become nothing more than...
... Sh|t.

I too remember they days of the SNES as the golden age gaming, but I think it's return is coming. I really think the advent of profitable indie developers will help keep the big corporations in check.

Edited by Connatic, 13 August 2012 - 04:17 PM.

[Dervim]

Vieric, on 13 August 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

I keep trying to act like MTV doesn't exist to retain what little faith in humanity I have left...It's a tough job.

MTV ... o_0...?

[Vieric]

Yeah, its difficult to remember that most of the "price increase" on games we see these days is just pure inflation. Looked at some charts, found this out:

What cost $50 in 1999 would cost $64.80 in 2010

for me though, its not about the bugs or anything like that, my problem is that gameplay has taken a back seat to looking nice. Video games are becoming more like "interactive movies" instead, and as such are becoming more and more shallow and short.

Edited by Vieric, 13 August 2012 - 04:43 PM.

[Odanan]

DeathAxle, on 13 August 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Not only quality but where has the innovation gone?

Where are the next magic carpet, populous, black and white, theme hospital, dungeon keeper, evil genius etc etc etc coming from?

It seems that all we are getting is a constant respawn of FPS shooters, that years sports games and Japanese cutesy kiddie games.

Play more indie games. They are made with passion, like the games of the old.

[Vieric]

Well, this has happened before, that big name companies start churning out generic crappy game after generic crappy game. Last time this happened was in the early 80's and right about 1983 people got real tired of it. lead to this:

http://en.wikipedia....e_crash_of_1983

I advise anyone interested to give it a read, its quite enlightening. for more information than that, seek it out on google, but Wikipedia summarizes nicely.

At this point, the indie scene may or may not be able to prevent this, but the big name companies are definitely falling into the pattern their forefathers did.

Edited by Vieric, 13 August 2012 - 04:55 PM.

[Odanan]

But we forget one major factor: we, the gamers.

We used to spend weeks in a silly game, trying to pass some hard part. Today, we try one, two times and move on to another game.

[Naduk]

money happened

[Melcyna]

Adridos, on 13 August 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Violition does have the rights for Free Space.

However, even thouh they made the best space simulator ever created, it sold so poorly you couldn't even buy a biger house for it, let alone keep company going to make a 3rd one.

As th3 fr4gil3 mentioned, from the information i know of through FSO forum, Volition never bought the right to the best of my knowledge..

And unless they bought it the right should be still with Interplay.

So unless there's information to the contrary, i am not sure how we conclude that Volition own the IP for Freespace.

[HarabecWeathers]

I love old games, but to be honest...it's hard to make good new games. Extremely hard. Companies like EA games and Activision have given up on that, yet they still have such a strong market because they're among the few big enough to create bleeding-edge graphics. Other companies that might have more original ideas are unable to compete because it would take them decades to do what larger companies are able to do in a couple years.

Not to mention that the whole gamer demographic has shifted a lot. People have started playing at younger ages, and video games have taken over the place of television as mindless entertainment that you can come to and leave at will. Don't want to devote time to learning how to play a hard game? Play a modern shooter and spam assault rifles over your terrible FoV screen at annoying people you can swear at! Or worse, play some garbage game like Mafia Wars. Point is, these games are extremely easy to make and very profitable. The development cycle for a AAA shooter is much lower than it used to be because they simply stripped out all the storytelling elements, gave players some badly balanced guns, and told them to have at it. And that's all most people really want to do. Why do you think games like Half Life 3 have taken so long (besides Valve time...)? Really good games take forever to make, but the developers are lucky to make 3/4 as much as a game like MW3, which is basically MW2 with a new coat of rat droppings. What's the motivation?

For instance, I want a new Starsiege (not Tribes, the MetalTech series). It has the potential to be an amazing game, with all sorts of story elements that people haven't seen in ages, great combat systems, and an amazing campaign. But any process would start from scratch, with a huge investment required just to get a license for a passable graphics engine, let alone coders, artists, etc. And then no one would know what it was. Alternatively, I could make a derivative shooter in a year or two, give it some gimmicky gameplay element, and voila...console gamer paradise.

[pnaksone]

Games are never finished by the developers they get early parole by the publishers.

On every development team there is some one who counts the money and time a game is costing the group paying the bills. This person job is to make money for the company not to care if the game is perfect or junk. If it can make money junk is shipped and sold. If it is passable and can be fixed by patches later it is shipped and sold. For every game that makes a profit there are several games that fail at some point during development and are canceled. Then you have the cost of the flops.

One thing is about proper testing is that it cost money and time yet not find the problems and bugs that the game in the hands of millions of users can find.

Edited by pnaksone, 13 August 2012 - 05:10 PM.

[UrLeftKnut]

Yeah, as has been said it's not just the computer games that have dropped in quality, the console games can leave a lot to be desired as well.
My favorite game of all time is The Legend of Dragoon for the Playstation, and the gameplay and cutscenes are STILL better than quite a few games 13 years later. I remember shaking in awe at seeing the Divine Dragon swooping in over the Crystal Palace, and yet, I've yet to see a game that equals that cutscene in graphic quality and the power grab ahold of one's soul and MAKE them watch. Story wise, it seems the great multi-disk stories a lot of us grew up with are fast becoming a thing of the past. Now everything is just too short, you can beat nearly anything one five hours of just playing, and I think that's just too bad.
Anymore I want a story that grips and lasts, graphics that enchant, and the originality of a new world.
That's what I've been looking for in my time as a gamer, and I've yet to find a game that meets all three.
It may have come out as a bit of a rant, but I felt the need to add in my own two cents,
to those who take time to read this, thanks.
~fin

[Elessar]

th3 fr4gil3, on 13 August 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

...
shadowrun online.
...

As a F2P-MMORPG?
And being developed with the desire to stay as true to the rulebooks as possible?

[Name140704]

Bethesda put Arena out for free, try it and fall in love again

Odanan, on 13 August 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

But we forget one major factor: we, the gamers.

We used to spend weeks in a silly game, trying to pass some hard part. Today, we try one, two times and move on to another game.

Not I. I buy one or two a year, maybe.