Jump to content

Worries about the Pilot progression system and matchmaker


22 replies to this topic

#1 Riptor

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 1,043 posts

Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:23 AM

So you need to level up a mech to obtain Pilot points to level up your pilot.

So what this means is that a certain mech can only level up so often limiting the amounts of pilot points you can possibly unlock on a single mech chassis.

Wich in turn means that if you want to further develop your Pilot, you will need to obtain different mech chassis and also level them up. The faster you pick up new mechs the better.

So much so good.

Now depending on how grindy (and the question is not "if" its grindy just "how" grindy) the money making process will be, it might get people to use your online store to simply purchase mechs with real money instead of grinding weeks to pick up the next one.

Now while i dont really have a problem with selling mechs in a cash shop per say, linking PILOT progression directly to the mechs gives me that nagging feeling in the back of my head that this borders really close on the edge of "Pay to win"

The reason be is that it sounds like that you can purchase ANY mech in the game with real cash.. not just like in WoT special Tanks.

Wich leads to he/she who purchases the most mechs and levels them up will have the strongest pilot, while those that dont have the cash to buy mechs every other day or so will have their character progress severly hampered.

In short: I pay for a bunch of mechs in the shop, level them up and end up being the most powerfull pilot on the server... sounds like pay to win for me. (bit exagerated here to get my point across)

Remember that a "Tier" system like in WoT that will keep players grouped depending on the overall power of their machine isnt really doable with how mechs work. A medium laser will cause the same amount of damage no matter the mech its mounted on, unlike in WoT where the early tanks are simply primitive and have really bad guns/armor compared to the top Tier monsters that are full of top of the line equipment (for that time)

So i really hope that the matchmaker will take the Pilot level into account and not only tonnage when pitting players against each other because otherwise this system could badly backfire when it comes to attracting new players to the game.

Worry much? Maybe.. but i have seen many a great games ruined by such little oversights.

#2 Roughneck45

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Handsome Devil
  • The Handsome Devil
  • 4,452 posts
  • LocationOutreach

Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:13 AM

im sure it will match you with pilots of similar skill, not based on tonnage. if they did it by tonnage, whats the point of a matchmaking system, just throw in whatever pilots with whatever mechs to hit the weight limit.

and buying the mechs and leveling isnt paying to win, its paying to not have to grind it out as much. you might get to max level faster, but everyone else will be right with you in a few weeks, and they will be 50$ richer too.

#3 Rayge

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 123 posts
  • LocationIowa

Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:22 AM

It's not like you can go out and buy 10 mechs and your pilot immediately gains 10 points. The points are achieved by actually 'playing' a mech. (and all mechs give the same amount of 'pilot progression per hour' as far as I can tell).

Seems pretty balanced as long as there are no 'cash shop only' mechs that grant a tactical advantage. And haven't they said that no cash shop items will grant tactical advantage?

#4 Bryan Ekman

    Creative Director

  • Developer
  • Developer
  • 1,106 posts
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationVancouver, BC

Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:17 AM

Quote

Now while i dont really have a problem with selling mechs in a cash shop per say, linking PILOT progression directly to the mechs gives me that nagging feeling in the back of my head that this borders really close on the edge of "Pay to win"


It's a fair statement, and a fine balance. Since buiying a Mech does not immediately grant you pilot points, a player still needs to level up the chassis, regardless of how they acquired it. Does it mean someone can spend money to purchae Mechs faster, yes However they will still need to invest time playing the game in order to earn pilot points. Unlocking the pilot tree is not equal to wining, rather a complimentary set of abilities that further tailor and enhance a players role.

When it comes to matchmaking, our number one priority is to get you into the game as quickly as possible. The next goal is to make sure the game experience is smooth and as lag free as possible. Lastly, we want to make sure your opponents offer a range of challenge. You should always be facing someone equal, better, and worse in order to get the most out of each match. Playing someone better expsoes a player to new techniques, templates, tactics, and concepts. Playing someone equal gives you the most fair chance of winning. Playing somone ranked lower, allows you to become the mentor and be dominant.

#5 Kenyon Burguess

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 2,619 posts
  • LocationNE PA USA

Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:21 AM

buy a 100 ton mech, buy a fancy paint job, buy your way into a fancy davion unit,

your still balanced cause you need to stay in that mech to earn experience to make it better and specialize its skill tree just like everyone else. plus you can only field one mech at a time per battle (that we know of at this point)

downside?

the light mechs see you as a shiny 100 ton priority target for long range beacon attacks
the medium mechs see you as a shiny 100 ton priority target for short range ambush/backstab attacks.
the heavy mechs only want to engage you when the odds are 2-1 in their favor cause your a shiny 100 ton priority target.
the commanders see you as a shiny 100 ton priority target for support related attacks (arty, aerospace, minefields ect.)

so if you want to spend the money to be shiny, prepare to have a lot of expensive repairs after each fight.

#6 autogyro

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 424 posts
  • LocationPerth, Australia

Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:30 AM

View PostBryan Ekman, on 03 February 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:


It's a fair statement, and a fine balance. Since buiying a Mech does not immediately grant you pilot points, a player still needs to level up the chassis, regardless of how they acquired it. Does it mean someone can spend money to purchae Mechs faster, yes However they will still need to invest time playing the game in order to earn pilot points. Unlocking the pilot tree is not equal to wining, rather a complimentary set of abilities that further tailor and enhance a players role.

When it comes to matchmaking, our number one priority is to get you into the game as quickly as possible. The next goal is to make sure the game experience is smooth and as lag free as possible. Lastly, we want to make sure your opponents offer a range of challenge. You should always be facing someone equal, better, and worse in order to get the most out of each match. Playing someone better expsoes a player to new techniques, templates, tactics, and concepts. Playing someone equal gives you the most fair chance of winning. Playing somone ranked lower, allows you to become the mentor and be dominant.


Hi Bryan,

I just want to point out that I hope that matchmaking does put some priority towards balancing out teams first, rather than getting into the game as soon as possible. I'm sure people wouldn't mind waiting 15 seconds for a well balanced matchmaking than hopping in straight away and find the teams unbalanced.

Also, how does a player improve or worsen their ranking?

#7 Bryan Ekman

    Creative Director

  • Developer
  • Developer
  • 1,106 posts
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationVancouver, BC

Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:32 AM

You won't be able to buy your way into faction units, but everything else mentoned is a plausible scenario. I've seen a Jenner work over Atlas in our play test session, using solid hit and run tactics. Takes time and a little bit of luck, but it's possible. Get a pack going and that Atlas better be careful and keep his range.

#8 Rayge

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 123 posts
  • LocationIowa

Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:33 AM

View Postautogyro, on 03 February 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

Also, how does a player improve or worsen their ranking?


at this point talking about matchmaking and ranking can only be guesses, but I did like the ranking system that battlefield did: each player started out with 0 skill, if you kill a player you gain skill based on their skill rating (kill someone with a lot of skill, gain a lot, if they're close to you, gain a little, if they're lower skill than you gain very little, and vice versa)

#9 Bryan Ekman

    Creative Director

  • Developer
  • Developer
  • 1,106 posts
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationVancouver, BC

Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:36 AM

View Postautogyro, on 03 February 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:


Hi Bryan,

I just want to point out that I hope that matchmaking does put some priority towards balancing out teams first, rather than getting into the game as soon as possible. I'm sure people wouldn't mind waiting 15 seconds for a well balanced matchmaking than hopping in straight away and find the teams unbalanced.

Also, how does a player improve or worsen their ranking?


Players aren't ranked by levels/kils/etc, so we have to draw on a number of different factors. To be perfectly honest, we have a theory only. During BETA we plan to try a few different ideas in order to get the desired results.

Keep in mnd we have a several game modes, each requiring a slightly different matchmaking rule set.

#10 Kenyon Burguess

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 2,619 posts
  • LocationNE PA USA

Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:40 AM

but..but... its tradition to buy your way into units in the BT universe :D

BETA...those are 4 lovely letters.

#11 Rayge

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 123 posts
  • LocationIowa

Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:49 AM

View PostGeist Null, on 03 February 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

but..but... its tradition to buy your way into units in the BT universe :D

BETA...those are 4 lovely letters.


oh yes... any idea when we could see that, Bryan? Tomorrow perhaps?

#12 autogyro

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 424 posts
  • LocationPerth, Australia

Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:52 AM

View PostBryan Ekman, on 03 February 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:


Players aren't ranked by levels/kils/etc, so we have to draw on a number of different factors. To be perfectly honest, we have a theory only. During BETA we plan to try a few different ideas in order to get the desired results.



I'm guessing this will be some form of ELO ranking + Battletech's Battle Value composite ranking system or something of the sort? If so, that'd be great!

Edited by autogyro, 03 February 2012 - 07:52 AM.


#13 DaZur

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 7,300 posts
  • LocationWisconsin

Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:57 AM

The "derp" driving the most expensive Lexus or BMW is not the best driver on the road... ( But they usually are the biggest "derp"! ) :D

Based on all as explained I think much will simply "level" out as time progresses. Someone may very well drop the $$ for the best Mech but they still have to play the hell out of it to max their perks... That said, as eluded to earlier, this guys going to be a hot target and everyone hoping to score max points will be looking to take him out, so it's not all candy and kisses for the player with the most toys...

Personally I believe "most" players are going to play the hell out of the free content, max their perks and ultimately learn their rides inside and out...

Essentially this creates a highly skilled player who can maximize the attributes of the Mech they have and know how to use them efficiently and effectively. Making them more beneficial to a House, unit, faction or lance because they know they are getting a good player not just the bloke with the deepest wallet.

All I want is my Zeus and I'll be happy ...(and I'll buy it if I have to!) ;)

#14 Rayge

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 123 posts
  • LocationIowa

Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:59 AM

View PostDaZur, on 03 February 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

The "derp" driving the most expensive Lexus or BMW is not the best driver on the road... ( But they usually are the biggest "derp"! ) :D


yes, I forsee a lot of fans dropping some serious $$ on the huge mechs and then saying 'why can't my atlas spot things' 'why can a stupid light mech get behind me and kill me' ;why do I need to work with my teammates'

#15 Nick Makiaveli

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 2,188 posts
  • LocationKnee deep in mechdrek

Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:25 AM

View PostBryan Ekman, on 03 February 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:


It's a fair statement, and a fine balance. Since buiying a Mech does not immediately grant you pilot points, a player still needs to level up the chassis, regardless of how they acquired it. Does it mean someone can spend money to purchae Mechs faster, yes However they will still need to invest time playing the game in order to earn pilot points. Unlocking the pilot tree is not equal to wining, rather a complimentary set of abilities that further tailor and enhance a players role.

When it comes to matchmaking, our number one priority is to get you into the game as quickly as possible. The next goal is to make sure the game experience is smooth and as lag free as possible. Lastly, we want to make sure your opponents offer a range of challenge. You should always be facing someone equal, better, and worse in order to get the most out of each match. Playing someone better expsoes a player to new techniques, templates, tactics, and concepts. Playing someone equal gives you the most fair chance of winning. Playing somone ranked lower, allows you to become the mentor and be dominant.


Sounds like you have a plan!! :D

Stick with this as a guiding concept, and I think we will all be happy campers!!




View PostRayge, on 03 February 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:


yes, I forsee a lot of fans dropping some serious $$ on the huge mechs and then saying 'why can't my atlas spot things' 'why can a stupid light mech get behind me and kill me' ;why do I need to work with my teammates'


Why wherever did you get such a notion? You must not be in the same intarwebz as I am ;)

Edited by Nick Makiaveli, 03 February 2012 - 08:26 AM.


#16 Vertous

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • The Wolf
  • The Wolf
  • 92 posts
  • LocationSummerville, SC

Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:07 AM

View PostGeist Null, on 03 February 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

buy a 100 ton mech, buy a fancy paint job, buy your way into a fancy davion unit,

the light mechs see you as a shiny 100 ton priority target for long range beacon attacks
the medium mechs see you as a shiny 100 ton priority target for short range ambush/backstab attacks.
the heavy mechs only want to engage you when the odds are 2-1 in their favor cause your a shiny 100 ton priority target.
the commanders see you as a shiny 100 ton priority target for support related attacks (arty, aerospace, minefields ect.)

so if you want to spend the money to be shiny, prepare to have a lot of expensive repairs after each fight.


Thats why you need 2 100 ton shiny mechs...and a long tom

#17 TheRulesLawyer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,415 posts
  • LocationChicagoland

Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:20 AM

View PostBryan Ekman, on 03 February 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

You won't be able to buy your way into faction units, but everything else mentoned is a plausible scenario.


Anyone see what this is in reference to? I was trying to match it up to a comment.

#18 Rayge

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 123 posts
  • LocationIowa

Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:22 AM

View PostTheRulesLawyer, on 03 February 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:


Anyone see what this is in reference to? I was trying to match it up to a comment.


I believe the guy edited his comment.

#19 Nick Makiaveli

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 2,188 posts
  • LocationKnee deep in mechdrek

Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:34 AM

View PostTheRulesLawyer, on 03 February 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:


Anyone see what this is in reference to? I was trying to match it up to a comment.


Geist Null said something about buying your way into "a fancy Davion unit". I assume that is what was referenced.

#20 Razed

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 81 posts
  • LocationKansas City, MO

Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:50 AM

I'm less concerned with the "pay to win" issue and more with being forced to change 'Mechs to continue your progression. From a lore perspective this doesn't seem to fit as most Mechwarriors consistantly use one chassis which becomes iconic for them. From a player perspective it's somewhat irritating because if I really like a particular 'Mech I'm not going to want to have to change just to keep increasing my abilities. If I'm playing a scout and I'm enjoying my Jenner, I'm comfortable with how it manuevers and performs, I don't want to be forced to switch to a Raven just pass some imaginary ceiling.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users