39 replies to this topic

[ManDaisy]

Having a constant throttle is all fine and dandy on open plains where collisions are unlikely, but when firing behind cover, or in tight allys, constant movement is more of disadvantage.

Its been posted before in other control suggestions but heres a recap of the idea:

1) Max throttle is preset in keys 1- 0. 10% thru 100 %
2) Holding W accelerates you to your max throttle forward.
3) Releasing it decelerates you to 0 throttle.
4) Holding S accelerates you to your max throttle backwards.
5) Releasing it decelerates you to 0 throttle.

6) Key to toggle between movement modes for "orignal" which is suited to open plain, and "this" which is suited to city combat.

Edited by ManDaisy, 07 March 2012 - 11:56 AM.

[Sesambrot]

Without redoing the whole mechanic:
- add a key to toggle between ramping- and instant throttle behaviour when pressing W or S (deveffort) already noted
- Assign +-100% to whatever keys you like, use X to stop your mech (do-it-yourself)

problem solved...

Edited by Sesambrot, 07 March 2012 - 12:05 PM.

[ManDaisy]

sorry I wasn't born with 200 fingers. Also what if I want to lock my throttle to only 30% ? I'm going to be whipping back and forth like a new kid learning how to drive stick.

Edited by ManDaisy, 07 March 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[Dihm]

Want to set your throttle to 30% with the system they specified? Hold down W till it gets there, then stop, wait for your mech to actually get up to that speed, and you're done.

[ManDaisy]

Your missing the point.

[IceSerpent]

ManDaisy, on 07 March 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Having a constant throttle is all fine and dandy on open plains where collisions are unlikely, but when firing behind cover, or in tight allys, constant movement is more of disadvantage.

No disadvantages whatsoever - moving throttle thingy on the base of your joystick forward accelerates your mech, moving it backwards decelerates (or accelerates reverse if you're below middle point). It's about as intuitive as it gets.

[Dihm]

ManDaisy, on 07 March 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Your missing the point.

Not really, just pointing out that this:

ManDaisy, on 07 March 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Also what if I want to lock my throttle to only 30% ?

is already handled by the existing system.

[ManDaisy]

Lets loose the biggest sigh in the world.

The point is the current system is inefficient in controlling movement in a small area with a keyboard.

1) Fingers are constantly occupies between jamming W and S to reach your desired throttle then immediately hitting X to make you come a a full stop.
2) In the middle of a fire fight this will lead to over moving when one fails to Hit X at the right time.
3) Movement will be awkward and jerky for Faster Mechs as they have more extremes from movement speed.
4) Turning and adjusting speed or trying to stop while turning will be a complete hell as one must with one hand manipulate W,S, D, A , and X in order to move they way they want to.

Why non constant throttle is good.

This gets rid of the need to hit X or C which is in a very unnatural position. Further move it allows exact control of movement and distance traveled.

Edited by ManDaisy, 07 March 2012 - 01:08 PM.

[Sesambrot]

I really doubt that you'll ever need to go at exactly 30%. Besides, your mech needs time to accelerate anyway, all it takes is for the throttle to be increased as fast or faster than your mech can accelerate and you won't notice the difference.

Also, I assume you have ten healthy fingers, I appologize if you don't but I'm also going to assume that you would want your two main weapongroups to be fired by your left and right mouse button. That'll free up 1 and 2, and there you go, use those for full forward and full reverse. On top of that, don't tell me it wouldn't be bothersome having to press 8 if you wanted to move at 80%, that's pretty far away from the keys controling your mechs.... everything...

Edited by Sesambrot, 07 March 2012 - 01:04 PM.

[ManDaisy]

GAhhhhhhhH!!!!! In moments like this I am glad for all the other things in my life that make me happy that serve to balance the effects of your logic and assumptions sesambrot.

Edited by ManDaisy, 07 March 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[IceSerpent]

ManDaisy, on 07 March 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Lets loose the biggest sigh in the world.

The point is the current system is inefficient in controlling movement in a small area with a keyboard.

1) Fingers are constantly occupies between jamming W and S to reach your desired throttle then immediately hitting X to make you come a a full stop.
2) In the middle of a fire fight this will lead to over moving when one fails to Hit X at the right time.
3) Movement will be awkward and jerky for Faster Mechs as they have more extremes from movement speed.
4) Turning and adjusting speed or trying to stop while turning will be a complete hell as one must with one hand manipulate W,S, D, A , and X in order to move they way they want to.

Why non constant throttle is good.

This gets rid of the need to hit X or C which is in a very unnatural position. Further move it allows exact control of movement and distance traveled.

All joking aside (although I have no clue why one would want to play a simulation game without at least a stick, if not full HOTAS), your suggestion for keyboard controls is much worse than constant acceleration, because mechs don't accelerate instantly. In your scenario you would still have to "jump" your fingers between throttle keys, and it will be more complicated because of acceleration delay. It will be somewhat easier to stop - just release W instead of hitting X, but it will be much more difficult to move around at constant speed when that speed is not full throttle as you would have to keep hitting and releasing W (would still result in jerky movement though).

[Sesambrot]

In response to the post you edited:

I'm going to feel free to disagree with you on that!
The controlscheme as laid out in the newspost, is probably most intuitive as it gets. Not sure if I'm supposed to speak that out loud, but the controlscheme for movement they presented today, is pretty much exactly the default setup for MWLL, and it is very well managable.

1. I don't see how the "jamming" between W and S, would be so much more difficult than controling your char in any conventional FPS, and X really isn't that hard to reach at all!
2. As I said X isn't all that hard to reach...
3. take MWLL as an example again, works perfectly fine...
4. already mentioned before, not as hard as you think it is

Play MWLL and you'll get a hang of those controls very quickly, they may sound odd at first but are very easy to understand and intuitive.
Besides all that, piloting a mech is supposed to require at least a little bit of skill, and getting used to the controls is just part of it.
I don't think is not going to be harder to get used to, than the traditional setup, as I said probably even more intuitive...

BTW Ice, I don't like playing with a joystick mostly because aiming is just so much more accurate when using a mouse, at least for me.
Actually quite a big deal if you plan to target specific parts of a moving target...
I'll probably try to set up a joystick-mouse combo for MWO though.

Edited by Sesambrot, 07 March 2012 - 01:29 PM.

[ManDaisy]

Ice Sperpent: Your assuming I mean from instant jump between throttles. This is wrong, 0-1 is the toggle for max throttle. Acceleration and deceleration would still occur.

Sesame: Everyone controls things differently, somethings may work best for others, and worse for others. Just give the option to personalize the controls a bit.

Edited by ManDaisy, 07 March 2012 - 01:33 PM.

[Sesambrot]

ManDaisy, on 07 March 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Sesame: Everyone controls things differently, somethings may work best for others, and worse for others. Just give the option to personalize the controls a bit.

I'm failry certain you will get that option anyway, so why do we argue about the default setup again?
All I'm saying is that the presented controlscheme isn't as unintuitive and jerky as you think it is.
It may differ from the one you're used to, regarding MWgames, but that doesn't make it bad.

[TheRulesLawyer]

For a keyboard I'd rather have it set so that releasing W and S make my mech stop. Maybe make throttle separately adjustable thing (+/-) and pressing W takes you up to that preset. W to accelerate, S to slow down and X to stop is kinda clumsy if you're doing a lot of start/stop stuff.

[IceSerpent]

ManDaisy, on 07 March 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Ice Sperpent: Your assuming I mean from instant jump between throttles. This is wrong, 0-1 is the toggle for max throttle. Acceleration and deceleration would still occur.

Ok, I guess I am missing something - you suggest that hitting W should accelerate (over time, while you're holding it) and releasing it should decelerate (again, over time), correct?

Let's say your team is on the move and is trying to stay in some sort of a loose formation, how are you going to do that without constantly hitting/releasing W in addition to adjusting course, looking around, and firing? Presets won't work because X% of top speed of an Atlas is not going to match Y% of top speed of a Jenner, not to mention that actual speed will keep changing due to terrain.

[TheRulesLawyer]

IceSerpent, on 07 March 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

Ok, I guess I am missing something - you suggest that hitting W should accelerate (over time, while you're holding it) and releasing it should decelerate (again, over time), correct?

Let's say your team is on the move and is trying to stay in some sort of a loose formation, how are you going to do that without constantly hitting/releasing W in addition to adjusting course, looking around, and firing? Presets won't work because X% of top speed of an Atlas is not going to match Y% of top speed of a Jenner, not to mention that actual speed will keep changing due to terrain.

Add a top speed function. Basically you'd need another set of keys to adjust your cap. W accels upto that speed. If you're in formation and falling behind you tap + while continuing to hold W.

[renegade mitchell]

ManDaisy, on 07 March 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

Lets loose the biggest sigh in the world.

The point is the current system is inefficient in controlling movement in a small area with a keyboard.

1) Fingers are constantly occupies between jamming W and S to reach your desired throttle then immediately hitting X to make you come a a full stop.
2) In the middle of a fire fight this will lead to over moving when one fails to Hit X at the right time.
3) Movement will be awkward and jerky for Faster Mechs as they have more extremes from movement speed.
4) Turning and adjusting speed or trying to stop while turning will be a complete hell as one must with one hand manipulate W,S, D, A , and X in order to move they way they want to.

Why non constant throttle is good.

This gets rid of the need to hit X or C which is in a very unnatural position. Further move it allows exact control of movement and distance traveled.

Like any other MW game, or any game for that matter. Once you get used to the controls, it all becomes second nature.

[ManDaisy]

Ice your bringing up the point where the "original" would be more suited. In that case just go for the original movement type.

What I am suggestion is a button much like switching from group fire to chain fire, in order to use the appropriate movement types in the appropriate landscapes.

Toggle constant throttle for open plains/ toggle non constant throttle for start and stop environments. Throttle % is not speed of mech it is % output of engine.

@ Renegade : Cept the controls suck in certain situations.

Edited by ManDaisy, 07 March 2012 - 01:55 PM.

[renegade mitchell]

IceSerpent, on 07 March 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

Ok, I guess I am missing something - you suggest that hitting W should accelerate (over time, while you're holding it) and releasing it should decelerate (again, over time), correct?

Let's say your team is on the move and is trying to stay in some sort of a loose formation, how are you going to do that without constantly hitting/releasing W in addition to adjusting course, looking around, and firing? Presets won't work because X% of top speed of an Atlas is not going to match Y% of top speed of a Jenner, not to mention that actual speed will keep changing due to terrain.

This.

ManDaisy, on 07 March 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

Ice your bringing up the point where the "original" would be more suited. In that case just go for the original movement type. What I am suggestion is a button much like switching from group fire to chain fire, in order to use the appropriate movement types in the appropriate landscapes. Toggle constant throttle for open plains/ toggle non constant throttle for start and stop environments. Throttle % is not speed of mech it is % output of engine. @ Renegade : Cept the controls suck in certain situations.

I am will to bet they will allow for keymapping. Controls you do not like, you could change.