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[Pov] How To Stimulate The Mc Economy. [Updated]


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#1 Norris J Packard

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 12:25 AM

Please, do not comment on this thread if you are not willing to read the entirety of this post. My goal is to obtain useful feedback that I can use to better hone my own perspective on this situation.

[The Synopsis:]

The current MC sinks will not stimulate the MC economy, if anything they will cause further backlash and rationing of already obtained MC by Founders. MWO is intended to be F2P, not P2P or P2W. However if they want to secure an active and exciting financial economy, they must do more than simply try and take lessons from Valve.

[The Meat:]

If you have decided to actually read this entire post, then I can already assume you know the majority of paying incentives that PGI intends to implement/already has implemented. If not, I shall go over them in bullet point form to save time and to serve as a refresher as needed.
  • Premium Time
  • MC for Mechs
  • Hero Mechs
  • XP to GXP
  • Cockpit Accessories
  • Mech Aesthetic Accessories (Camo, paint, decals, etc.)
  • Mech Bays
These outlets are simply inadequate and many players will not spend their MC due to fears of losing what they've already accrued from the Founders program. Currently there is a massive surplus of paid currency that effectively will reset back to it's owners when Open Beta starts (and it has). Given that this is will be in all likelihood be the final reset (and it was), the number of people who carelessly toss around their limited funds will not be so expansive as it was previously. PGI in all likelihood has the hard numbers, but many of us are personally aware of those who will not spend their MC even though it is (was) currently Funny Money. The fact there is a significant portion of players who won't use currency they are destined to get back by the week's end should give you a solid idea of where PGI currently sits. And while it may seem greedy, their entire business model depends on people spending and buying MC. So please, do not let your heart and your head change places; this thread is entirely for the discussion of good incentives, not "cheap" or "free" ones like the Premium Time count down.

So what do they do then? Well, they need to get the Founders to spend the MC they earned. Which depending upon the situation could be 10,000 MC or 20,000 MC. We can already see one attempt at this in action by terminal count down of the Premium Time once you choose to start it. Essentially though this is not going to do much other than sour the mood of the community at large. I can clearly see what they were thinking though, start the countdown and in one to three month's they'll have to pay for more Premium! Except they won't. Since 30-60-90 days is more than enough time to accrue a massive stock of CBills and Mechs. This is essentially enough time for even the casual player base to end up far ahead of their similar counterparts who did not have the luxury of said time. Will this divide persuade people who are not Founders to buy Premium Time? Perhaps, but it will not persuade Founders to buy Premium Time; which is the crux of the problem. Though I believe PGI knows this, thus they have planned to add certain non-vital, or time saving measures to act as further catalysts to attract players to spend MC. Again - not a bad plan, however it still falls short.

So what about GXP? The Premium Time effectively cuts out any reason for players to convert XP into GXP as it offers a 50% XP buff, which translates into greater GXP earnings per game. And since pilot modules need only to be unlocked once to be used in any Mech (after CBill expenditure) simply by using the Premium buff can they acquire all of the needed skills within the time frame they have to work in. 90 days is a very long time, I personally activated my Premium Time the day Open Beta started and since then I've bought and sold over two dozen Mechs with CBills, and have accrued well over 100k in GXP after having bought every single Module, and still have about 370 million CBills in the bank. Given this information, what purpose will I have to actually buy further MC in the future? None. Because I know that before my Premium Time ever runs out, I'll have had enough time to get everything I need and more. March is still a long way's away. Now some of you will scoff and say that I'll fritter my money away on non-essentials like camo and paint. Well, no, not really. I might have to buy a decal at some point for my Merc Corp, but given there's no stated date for the inception of custom decals? I'm in absolutely no hurry, and neither are many others.

What if they make paint/vanity items a one use only affair? Or something that's innately bound to the Mech it is used on (much like the Founders skins are currently)? Perhaps PGI could then see some Founders spend their MC in a hurry. However, if we are to assume they will be like any other item in the game, it is a simple matter to unequip the item from one Mech to another. The same goes for the Cockpit Items. The only real way that these non-essentials could prove to be a quick outlet would be if they were absurdly priced. However this would only hurt non-Founders who are coming into the game broke, and want to spend money on the game without spending too much money at the same time. And of course there will be the group who see these vanity items as simply that, vanity items. They don't effect your skill, or your performance, and so on. Thus there is no inherent reason to spend real money on them. And as a result will retain their MC.

What about Mechbays? Of course, what about them? Founders get one or four Mechs, and like everyone else they still get the four empty Mechbays besides them. Four slots is a lot, in fact it is more than enough for anyone to get any Mech to the Master level. Since owning the Mech isn't required, merely having had unlocked the modules for them, it is actually better for the player to be frugal and sell the Mech once the required slots have been unlocked so they can move up the tree. Simply because it will allow them to purchase the next variant in half the time (usually) if they were to sell it back.

What are the solutions then? More avenues need to be opened, ones that actually encourage spending.

Like? Like these:
  • Control over Mech Releases via Pre-Orders
  • A Social Economy
  • Useful Vanity Items
What do you mean Mech Pre-Orders? Well, unfortunately for us but perhaps fortunately for PGI, after the Cataphract comes out, we have no set schedule for Mech releases. Or even an estimated one. Or a set order. The most recent tease of the Highlander in the October 9th PC Gamer article only made me strengthen my opinions on this setup. You see - many players have differing opinions as to what should be the next Mech that comes out. So why not let them decide with their wallets?

The simplest way to explain this would be to imagine a roster of all the Mechs we know of that have not yet been added to the game, but are confirmed to be (Let's keep it to IS Mechs for the time being) coming to the game. Now a random selection of say three or so that currently are not being worked on (all of the ones not in the game, and aren't the Cataphract/Cicada) will be thrown into a poll. The point of this is for players to Pre-Order the Mech with MC, and the Mech that has been Pre-ordered the most will be the one that is next worked on (the second most, being the second, and third most being last of the three and so on). To understand how this might work, let's use bullet points again. For this example, I will be using the Spider, the JagerMech, and the Trebuchet. All numbers here are fictionalized for this demonstration.
  • Spider (Preorder Cost: 1250 MC) - 15,000 Preorders
  • JagerMech (Preorder Cost: 4500 MC) - 25,000 Preorders
  • Trebuchet (Preorder Cost: 3000 MC) - 12,000 Preorders
In this instance the JagerMech would be the first one of the three to be added, followed up by the Spider, and finishing up with the Trebuchet. Now there's a lot of actual information that needs to be discussed here. In my example of Mech Pre-Orders, we merely influence the order, but cannot keep a Mech from perpetually being stuck in limbo as the more popular Mechs of the vote win. This of course means that the expenditures by the people who put forth their money (and by extension MC) to pre-order the Mech do not get shafted as they will still receive their Pre-Ordered Mech. Now popularity in these circumstances will not be the only factor, but cost will be as well. If people really, really want that expensive 4500 MC JagerMech, they are really gonna have to pony up and hand it over. On the other hand, the Spider is just a little over a third of the cost of the JagerMech; which makes it more affordable than either the Trebuchet or the JagerMech. And it might look like this:

Posted Image



Of course though there must be rules to establish how exactly this works. If you pre-order a Mech, you must have a free slot in your MechBay. After pre-ordering the Mech, it will become a reserved slot that lists precisely which Mech it was you ordered. In this system, the option to pre-order a particular variant may also be possible, but that's entirely irrelevant for this discussion as all pre-orders for the Mech would be lumped together in one sum. There's a few advantages to this. At least for PGI. It means that until that Mech comes out, a Mechbay is permanently locked up. So if a player sees the Mech they really, really want to play show up in that carousel, and they've never bought excess Mechbays? Well, they might start considering it because instead of having four, they now have three. And to strengthen this, players can pre-order a Mech (or Mechs) as many times as they want. Assuming they have the Mechbays for them! So someone could pre-order all of the Mechs as many times as they want, so long as they've got the room. Of course players would be enabled to sell their Mechs at half their net worth (as it currently is in the game) once they received their Mechs. Makes sense doesn't it? And of course, the Mechs would become purchasable with CBills after they were added to the game.

What do you mean a Social Economy? Currently there is no way to send CBills, or Equipment, or Mechs from player to player. I imagine this will change significantly once Community Warfare is added. However as PGI themselves have noted, it is rather inefficient to buy a Mech with MC to simply sell it for half of it's CBill worth. Thus a social economy needs to be instituted, in other words a market, an auction house, a junkyard, whatever vernacular you wish to use. Simply so players can sell and trade items to and fro, as well as buy Mechs with MC, and then sell them below the MSRP CBill value if they so choose. Many players would leap at the chance to see a 75% return on that old Mech they don't use anymore, rather than the standard 50% return. Of course I imagine PGI would implement a CBill tax on all transactions in the way of a few percent of the total.

And what about useful Vanity Items, isn't that P2W? Well... sorta kinda. See, PGI already plans on doing this with the Hero Mechs. If you're clever enough, you can access the .xml files and see that it is their intention to add Hero Mechs as a separate variant of a Mech, rather than just a skin. So if a Hero Mech is added with custom equipment, or perhaps a "better" hardpoint allocation this could be seen as a form of P2W since it is offering a distinct advantage. My suggestions teeter a bit less on the line between F2P and P2W. I am merely throwing out the suggestion of Camos/Paints that for example can reduce (but not hide) your IR signature or your visibility in Night Vision. Or perhaps ones that are less likely to set off a Magnometer. I am not talking about magic bullets, or anything of that sort. Just latent buffs that add a slight enhancement to the Mech itself. Not weapons, or items, nothing of that sort as that would truly be crossing the line in my opinion.

If you have any further suggestions, or critiques, please leave a reply. Assuming you've actually read the entire post with the right mindset.

[Other Ideas:]

Active Nose Art. As we've already seen in past concept art for various Mechs, it appears that Nose Art will be a part of customizing our Mechs. What is particularly neat about this concept is the viability of updating counters. With real-life nose art "kill counts/mission counts" are a common theme. It would be especially interesting to see this concept applied to the idea of keeping one's Mech alive. A kill count/mission count on your Mech would update after each drop, and if your Mech were to be destroyed the count would reset. Of course static numbers/iconic representations are to be expected, but the mere idea of an active counter to show just how great of a Pilot you are with your Mech would add to the intimidation factor you can present on the battlefield. (BeakieHelmet and others)

MechBay Packs. Instead of simply having the option to buy one MechBay at a time, the option of buying several at once (at a slight discount) could be a viable method in which to entice players to buy them in bulk. (Kazuar)

Real Items. It is not uncommon for game developers to offer physical items and swag that people can buy related to the IP from their electronic store. These items can take the form of coffee mugs, shirts, posters, art books, miniatures, etc. Typically some of these items tend to come with items related to the game such as a special skin, or vanity item. This covers both areas, and fills in the vacuum that PGI has in their store. (Airwolf and others)

Battle Scarred Skins. Skins that display retained battle damage on your Mech to really show off the grit of harsh, sustained combat. (Shiney)

Hero Mech CBills Bonus. Aside from being different variants, and also having a different skin. The option of buying a Hero Mech skin for the Mech you enjoy playing could become more lucrative if a similar CBill bonus was attached to the Mech in very much the same manner that Founder's Mechs currently do. (Draco Argentum)

Free MechBay with MC Mech Purchase. Pre-Order Mechs would have to be exempt from this rule; however as it stands a free MechBay that went with the purchase of a Mech (with MC) would go a long way to try and smooth over the disproportionate values that many people see. (Mahws)

MC/Premium Monthly Subscription. The option for repeat billing of a monthly fee in return for a stipend in the form of MC/Premium Time/Discounts in the store, as opposed to manually tasking users with having to purchase MC as they need it. (Sandpit and others)

Customizable Mechlab. The option to customize your Mechlab itself would be an interesting option, as it should be a mostly cosmetic choice. Given the lush history with BT and the number of different dropships there are available, it should be possible for players to change what dropship they want to their Mechs "housed" in, thus influencing the appearance of the Mechlab. (CCC Dober)

Mech Equipment Variations. Another cosmetic option that could be investigated, at least for CW purposes, is the option to purchase different appearances for your Mech's equipment. None of it would provide different weapon statistics, but it is quite common in BT for Mechs of the same kind and variant to differ wildly on the basis of who manufactured what equipment in them. (CCC Dober)

Rentable Mechs. An MC driven alternative to Trial Mechs that allow players to playtest different variants and builds of Mechs without having permanently bought them. This is also a way to acclimate new players to the game (who are willing to spend MC), so they can earn CBills and XP while seeing what a certain Mech is like to play. Possibly also make the Mech free/discounted after a certain number of rentals. (Artgathan and others)

C.O.D. Mech Transfers. Emulating the Collect on Delivery payment system in real-life and other electronic games, C.O.D. Mech Transfers would allow players to send Mechs to and fro at the cost of MC from the receiver. (Sandpit)

Mech Standards/Flags. Want to display the colors and insignia of your Merc Corp or House? Then buy a standard! Attached to the back of your Mech, it acts as a rallying signal for other players on your team and lets your enemies know just who it is they are being killed by.

Edited by Norris J Packard, 30 January 2013 - 10:03 AM.


#2 Binkus

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:02 AM

Cool post

personally i think the whole MC economy falls short

to summarise and not waffle on, the game content is a one trip pony, once you have your favourite mech and strut around you might not consider other mechs for a long time

content promoting MC sales would be planetary bases run by guilds and players, for example base set up and maintenance costs might be too high but with extra building for example mech repair centre cutting 20% off repair bill etc or running your guild drops ships would be a money sink that may not be self sufficient until you have planted enough resource mines etc

in contrast if you run a mech that is strictly house allegiance you do not have the worry of running your base and maybe some reduced costs but you dont get some salvage rights etc

i wandered off topic there, but the exp gains and money gains from premium membership is yet to be fully tested with the resets and then standing on our own two feet, personally the mech customisation is cool and dashboard stuff is a vanity item

the main cash source from me would be micro managing a mech base and resource points or contributing .ie a % of my mech earnings go to guild coffers

there is one thing they could do that would make me buy one of each mech and that is do away with the 3 mechs to elite rule, triple the exp would make me run a premium more than having to buy 3 of a heavy mech to elite it, it is a bizaar concept of using the same frying pan to cook better, whereas cooking makes you better not switching pans. tripple the exp or make it even higher

Junkyard and auction house would be great some sort of universal trading economy would be a bonus.


for me content is the biggest think keeping my wallet closed at the moment

i know its beta but a hint of content woudl be awesome

some ability to solo some missions would be great or with a group

a medal table for vanity players or achivements (ie kill 10 atlas) medals similiar to a jumpgate esq was always nice

overall pilot level or threat ranking

the social part of the game is really limiting

league tables. i need to feel i am competing to keep my MC cashed in there is no real league table out there and kills to death is not a good figure at all

sorry i know i digressed a bit but i feel underlying the MC payments as a one off that is all it will be at the moment a one time payment

Edited by Binkus, 11 October 2012 - 01:04 AM.


#3 Wolfclaw

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:05 AM

Interesting Read. Very informative as well.

I must say that the mech pre-order you spoke of really caught my attention and I have to say that it's not a bad idea.

If I read it correctly, basically they would have 3 mechs that they havent worked on thrown out there to be pre-ordered using MC. The Mech with the most orders would be bumped up the assembly line and pounded through the development process to be released sooner rather than later. So on so forth with the second and third mech as well.

As for the Social economy, I'm not so sure about it. People would definately jump on the opportunity like you said, but do you feel it would be abused in some way?

The Vanity items were also very interesting, I like the idea of having a Camo Skin that may make my mech harder to see on different maps. Something along the lines of Tinted cockpit glass so my atlas eyes dont stick out like they do now.

Overall a great read and very interesting.

Definately something to think about!

#4 Norris J Packard

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:10 AM

No problem Wolfclaw, glad you liked. And yes, you read that right. The idea would be to allow the userbase to have some say in what Mech is the next one that comes out. A semblance of control that ultimately leads to great MC expenditures by all parties.

#5 Wolfclaw

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:11 AM

View PostBinkus, on 11 October 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

Cool post

personally i think the whole MC economy falls short

to summarise and not waffle on, the game content is a one trip pony, once you have your favourite mech and strut around you might not consider other mechs for a long time




You definately have a point here, however, I think we all may be a bit surprised as to how many 'common' builded mechs, we see now, go to the wayside once more mechs/content is released.

It's all really a tough subject to figure out ideas on what could boost the MC economy. Already I've seen 3 great ideas from the OP alone, but how much else could we really come up with without turning the game p2w?

View PostNorris J Packard, on 11 October 2012 - 01:10 AM, said:

No problem Wolfclaw, glad you liked. And yes, you read that right. The idea would be to allow the userbase to have some say in what Mech is the next one that comes out. A semblance of control that ultimately leads to great MC expenditures by all parties.


Just wanted to make sure I did there.

And definitely, it does sound like a great idea, now to get PGI into here to check it out!

#6 Norris J Packard

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:30 AM

Well, I sent a PM to Garth, so I am hoping he will at least entertain the idea of reading that portion of the thread.

And I also plan on making absolutely sure that Paul sees the idea (if I don't get a reply from Garth) in the Reddit AMA he's doing tomorrow.

I am sure that'll go over swimingly. /s

#7 Blacknsilver

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:47 AM

I disagree with making this game more p2w than it already is. As far as the rest- more skins and mechs every couple weeks will be more than enough for people to keep paying.

#8 Norris J Packard

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:16 AM

View PostBlacknsilver, on 11 October 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

I disagree with making this game more p2w than it already is. As far as the rest- more skins and mechs every couple weeks will be more than enough for people to keep paying.


Can I ask in what way this seems P2W?

#9 Blacknsilver

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:19 AM

Giving paying customers an advantage non-paying customers have no way of getting is the definition of p2w.

#10 Norris J Packard

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:22 AM

View PostBlacknsilver, on 11 October 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

Giving paying customers an advantage non-paying customers have no way of getting is the definition of p2w.


What would that be?

#11 Tallnob

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:22 AM

You are great.

I have an interest in economics and really appreciate your focus on incentives, or lack therof present in MWO.

I saw 3 main points particularly interesting.

1. Further incentive to purchase MC

What could be a proper incentive to drop large amounts of C-bills and thereby [ at some point after the inital euphoria wears off ] influence members to purchase MC? New mechs and XL engines are currently the only way to empty your wallet quickly with desireable items, but as you pointed out a hard month of grind with a premium account could outfit a player very well. So, what is the average credit generation per month and what sort of mech release schedule would be necessary to provide the player with the necessary incentive?

My numbers may need adjusting +/- 10% and lack the stats to prove any assumptions, so I'll use low values. I experienced very similar numbers with the AWS 8T Trial mech vs Owned one.

Without premium, 75-170k with non Founders mech but that's an even mix of premade/random for me, probably average closer to 100k. I think a keen player could average at least 2hrs per night x 30, probably more. I think 10min is high for an average game that I have played since the latest patch, but I'll stick with that.

Repairs ran from 10k replacement value on a busted light to 75k for an XL Awesome. Basically, didn't lose a single C-bill. I'll use 50k average.

That's 50k per game x 12 games x 30 days = 18,000,000/month

I think with the assumptions I made that the relase of something comparable to 1.5 Atlas a month would be necessary at a bare minimum. For example, Highlander + Cicada this month, Cataphract + Raven Variant next month.
Avid players would need much more.


2. Second Hand Mechs

This is a good idea, I can see opportunity for abuse here but it could be tested.

3. Vanity Items

People will spend the cash on Vanity items, but generally as "spare change". For example, you want to buy the new Mad Cat. It costs 9k MC, you can only buy 10k MC. If the MC price is pegged to Cbills then it could be difficult to take full advantage of this.

Please correct my numbers if possible, we will have the opportunity to see how this plays out over the next few months.

Edited by Tallnob, 11 October 2012 - 02:26 AM.


#12 Blacknsilver

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:25 AM

View PostNorris J Packard, on 11 October 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:


What would that be?

Norris J Packard said:

And what about useful Vanity Items, isn't that P2W? Well... sorta kinda. See, PGI already plans on doing this with the Hero Mechs. If you're clever enough, you can access the .xml files and see that it is their intention to add Hero Mechs as a separate variant of a Mech, rather than just a skin. So if a Hero Mech is added with custom equipment, or perhaps a "better" hardpoint allocation this could be seen as a form of P2W since it is offering a distinct advantage. My suggestions teeter a bit less on the line between F2P and P2W. I am merely throwing out the suggestion of Camos/Paints that for example can reduce (but not hide) your IR signature or your visibility in Night Vision. Or perhaps ones that are less likely to set off a Magnometer. I am not talking about magic bullets, or anything of that sort. Just latent buffs that add a slight enhancement to the Mech itself. Not weapons, or items, nothing of that sort as that would truly be crossing the line in my opinion.

That's the only part of the OP i disagree with. An advantage is an advantage, even if it seems very minor.

Edited by Blacknsilver, 11 October 2012 - 02:27 AM.


#13 Norris J Packard

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:33 AM

View PostBlacknsilver, on 11 October 2012 - 02:25 AM, said:

[/font]
That's the only part of the OP i disagree with. An advantage is an advantage, even if it seems very minor.


Okay, now I agree with you here Black; however compared to the potential P2W divide that Hero Mechs might unleash. My minor improvement suggestions are really no different than say 2.5% buff in the Pilot Lab. I do understand your concern though; which is why I gave extremely circumstantial buffs that were gains, but nothing significant. Not like... a camo that makes you completely invisible to Nightvision and IR. Or something like that. In reality though paints and camo stand to offer far more significant "buffs"; especially once Night maps hit. All black, matte paint Mechs should be virtually invisible without Nightvision or IR.

#14 Norris J Packard

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:38 AM

View PostTallnob, on 11 October 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

You are great.

I have an interest in economics and really appreciate your focus on incentives, or lack therof present in MWO.

I saw 3 main points particularly interesting.

1. Further incentive to purchase MC

What could be a proper incentive to drop large amounts of C-bills and thereby [ at some point after the inital euphoria wears off ] influence members to purchase MC? New mechs and XL engines are currently the only way to empty your wallet quickly with desireable items, but as you pointed out a hard month of grind with a premium account could outfit a player very well. So, what is the average credit generation per month and what sort of mech release schedule would be necessary to provide the player with the necessary incentive?

My numbers may need adjusting +/- 10% and lack the stats to prove any assumptions, so I'll use low values. I experienced very similar numbers with the AWS 8T Trial mech vs Owned one.

Without premium, 75-170k with non Founders mech but that's an even mix of premade/random for me, probably average closer to 100k. I think a keen player could average at least 2hrs per night x 30, probably more. I think 10min is high for an average game that I have played since the latest patch, but I'll stick with that.

Repairs ran from 10k replacement value on a busted light to 75k for an XL Awesome. Basically, didn't lose a single C-bill. I'll use 50k average.

That's 50k per game x 12 games x 30 days = 18,000,000/month

I think with the assumptions I made that the relase of something comparable to 1.5 Atlas a month would be necessary at a bare minimum. For example, Highlander + Cicada this month, Cataphract + Raven Variant next month.
Avid players would need much more.


2. Second Hand Mechs

This is a good idea, I can see opportunity for abuse here but it could be tested.

3. Vanity Items

People will spend the cash on Vanity items, but generally as "spare change". For example, you want to buy the new Mad Cat. It costs 9k MC, you can only buy 10k MC. If the MC price is pegged to Cbills then it could be difficult to take full advantage of this.

Please correct my numbers if possible, we will have the opportunity to see how this plays out over the next few months.


Glad you liked the post.

As for dealing with the minutia of CBill economics, currently I don't want to touch that with a 12 foot long pole. Mainly because the Loyalty Point system is not yet in the game, and also because there's a pretty fair chance that the payouts for matches will be lowered again. I could explain why, but it'd take a while. And while I do appreciate your enthusiasm, it's entirely a hypothetical situation and adding numbers to support said hypothesis, especially ones we can't actively verify, makes supporting the argument all the more difficult. It's why I only stuck with (false) statistics primarily for this post and didn't go into any really hard figures besides what I've personally owned and done. Though you are not wrong.

And while there might be some abuse possible with second hand Mechs and items, I have the strongest inclination that this is where they are going to go with Clan Mechs. Again, this would take a while to explain.

Now of course with vanity items, that example wouldn't really be fitting unless it was a Mad Cat bobblehead that sat on your dash for 9k MC. Since a Mech isn't exactly a vanity item, and I do not believe that PGI would be so daft as to make Clan Mechs MC only. It'd blow up in their face.

Edited by Norris J Packard, 11 October 2012 - 02:40 AM.


#15 Tallnob

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:02 AM

View PostNorris J Packard, on 11 October 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:


Glad you liked the post.

As for dealing with the minutia of CBill economics, currently I don't want to touch that with a 12 foot long pole. Mainly because the Loyalty Point system is not yet in the game, and also because there's a pretty fair chance that the payouts for matches will be lowered again. I could explain why, but it'd take a while. And while I do appreciate your enthusiasm, it's entirely a hypothetical situation and adding numbers to support said hypothesis, especially ones we can't actively verify, makes supporting the argument all the more difficult. It's why I only stuck with (false) statistics primarily for this post and didn't go into any really hard figures besides what I've personally owned and done.

And while there might be some abuse possible with second hand Mechs and items, I have the strongest inclination that this is where they are going to go with Clan Mechs. Again, this would take a while to explain.

Now of course with vanity items, that example wouldn't really be fitting unless it was a Mad Cat bobblehead that sat on your dash for 9k MC. Since a Mech isn't exactly a vanity item, and I do not believe that PGI would be so daft as to make Clan Mechs MC only. It'd blow up in their face.



Yep, it's all hot air of course, many changes coming. I would be very surprised if they didn't widen the gap between Win/Loss rewards. Still I'd like to have a rough idea as it changes.

Clan Mechs...hadn't considered how they would introduce them to the market. It would be pretty odd to be able to purchase them in tip top factory condition with all the proper weapons right off wouldn't it?

With the Vanity Items it was a thought that a peg of MC to Cbills would cause difficulty adjusting prices to encourage spending leftover MC on vanity items. It doesn't exist currently, as anyone who has stripped and liquidated an Atlas K knows.

Re: Mad Cat check out this post, I may be misinterpreting his intent.

http://mwomercs.com/...post__p__694502

Edit: After reading that again, and considering the 24mil Cbills regular price, rarity and lack of current MC peg, they could slap whatever price in Cbills and MC they want on it for whatever time period. It wouldn't violate their no P2W ethos as long as you could purchase it with Cbills.

Has anyone stated if the Hero mech was to be available for Cbills?

Edited by Tallnob, 11 October 2012 - 03:11 AM.


#16 Aym

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:25 AM

I think IF they release PVE stuff, missions, solo or even better up-to-lance size teams they could sell them for a reasonable MC cost and make a great deal fo money.

View PostTallnob, on 11 October 2012 - 03:02 AM, said:

Has anyone stated if the Hero mech was to be available for Cbills?

I haven't seen confirmation per se but the wording on the PCGamer article is pretty clear that it is one of the things PGI expects people to spend MC on.
It seems pretty clear it's an MC only thing.

Edited by Aym, 11 October 2012 - 04:27 AM.


#17 Draco Argentum

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:51 AM

I was already worried about camo skins being p2w. Now you're suggestion skins that are intentionally hard to see? Thats such an aweful idea that even with the clever preorder system your post is detrimental to the game. Remove that junk before the devs see it.

#18 BeakieHelmet

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:41 AM

I'm not so sure about giving ANY buff to vanity items beyond the natural effects of camo. Not that it matters right now, with the haze effect any mech will be a blurry blob if it's far out enough for camo to do anything. I think that's all better suited for pilot modules.

Still, camo and vanity items are a big, big thing, and there's one more thing I'd like to note here.

Quote

By early December, players will be able to apply pre-made decals, and soon after that, their own player created art!


Sometime in january or february, we're going to see user-made decals applied to mechs. These are going to need to be paid for with MC, both for the approval process and for buying them for application.

If they charged a dollar per custom decal, do you have any idea how much money they'd get from merc corp players that want everybody's mech outfitted with their insignia?

Buying items for other players is going to be an even bigger thing here, as likely one or two moneybags are going to be buying a lot of the newer players items for this.

Also keep in mind that only base paints and base camo will be free. Presumably this means olive, grey, red, yellow, and basic solid-color "camo." The colors of the mechs already in the game. The PC Gamer skin (the Dazzler camo) is a good example of what paid camo will be like in the future, parade camos and actual camos (digicam, tiger stripe, etc) for you to customize your mech with, for just a bit of MC. Other paints will come later.

Oh, actually, with the way bloom works in this game, any paint with a gloss effect would put it at an advantage, as the glow from mechs taking damage already obscures them from the glow effect... imagine a mech having that effect all the time from the sun hitting them. Lit up like the fourth of july, but blinding and impossible to see which direction it's facing unless you're up close. So yeah, please no glossy effects for mechs. I doubt it'd go along with the game's aesthetics anyways.

I think that eventually the vanity items will sell very well, they just can't be sold until they are implemented... and hopefully not insanely priced. A dollar per sticker here, four dollars for a camo there, fifteen dollars for a limited edition urbanmech bobblehead way over yonder, etc.

Just... please don't price them as expensively as TF2's hats, PGI. The hats get away with it because they also drop for free, if you want to do work you can hunt down someone trading it for nothing. Keep paints and stuff MC only.

Oh, and I do think the basic house stickers should be available for free too. Just because. The generic House Kurita/Marik/Steiner/etc. No merc corp is going to use those, and they'll be a great tutorial for new players on how the stickers work, plus they can feel like they're customizing their mech right away with those and have more confidence when buying more stickers later.

Stickers need to also be more than just faction logos too, they need to be other customizing stuff that people put on their mechs in lore, like what's written on the side of FD's mechs. Seeing "CLANNER KILLER" on the side of in-game missile pods would be great, no? Number designations would be kinda neat and for sure used by various merc corps... and who wouldn't want to write "GOTTA GO FAST!" on the side of their blue-colored spider?

Just be sure to release each one in both black and white varieties, PGI, so that people can put them on any color and make them legible.

This isn't even going into putting in a battle-scarred secondary effect on your camo, or anything like that. The possibilities are pretty endless with vanity items.

#19 Scarlett Avignon

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:49 AM

They need to implement a MC to C-bill auction house. If people could sell MC for C-bills, they fix a lot of things, and by selling to other players, they would help people who might be low on RL money but rich in game cash. Plus, it would stimulate their own sales because people short on time but with extra money would be able to supplement their c-bill supply without having to grind.

Everyone wins.

#20 Norris J Packard

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:31 AM

View PostFranklen Avignon, on 11 October 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

They need to implement a MC to C-bill auction house. If people could sell MC for C-bills, they fix a lot of things, and by selling to other players, they would help people who might be low on RL money but rich in game cash. Plus, it would stimulate their own sales because people short on time but with extra money would be able to supplement their c-bill supply without having to grind.

Everyone wins.


This is kind of shaky ground as it doesn't remove the MC from the player's hands. Which is ideally what PGI needs to do. It would be feasible for a large group of grinders to hoard MC if they bought it all with CBills. It could get ugly fast depending upon what they plan to do in the future with MC.





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