101 replies to this topic

[Tadakuma]

Garth Erlam, on 02 April 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

Interestingly, for all you Orion lovers, is how absolutely destroyed it got in the 75 ton 'Mech poll.

People under estimate the usefulness of 14.5 tonnes of armour, they love their shiny PPCs and don't realise that in a stand up fight the Orion will trash a Marauder or Warhammer 4 times out of 5.

If you remove the unseen from the mix, there is a big gaping hole in the heavy mech department with a sudden lack of generalist line of battle designs.

The only Star league designs that are still in production are the Flashman and Guillotine and even those are limited to two houses. It's one of the reason I expect to see at least some of the unseen, just because the game really struggles in 3039 if you don't have them available.

[Oswin Aurelius]

Tadakuma, on 02 April 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

People under estimate the usefulness of 14.5 tonnes of armour, they love their shiny PPCs and don't realise that in a stand up fight the Orion will trash a Marauder or Warhammer 4 times out of 5.

If you remove the unseen from the mix, there is a big gaping hole in the heavy mech department with a sudden lack of generalist line of battle designs.

The only Star league designs that are still in production are the Flashman and Guillotine and even those are limited to two houses. It's one of the reason I expect to see at least some of the unseen, just because the game really struggles in 3039 if you don't have them available.

I personally think there needs to be a few heavy sluggers thrown into the mix. Right now, only the Atlas and the Hunchback can really be considered close-range brawlers.

[00dlez]

mwhighlander, on 02 April 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Just accept the Orion is not that good, only really that popular because of the canon around it. The 'mech itself is pretty ugly, and sub-par.

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.
It's a Centurion on steroids, is more awesome than an Awesome, and it doesn't get any street cred because it lacks PPCs that any modded out boat should have to be playable

[Oswin Aurelius]

00dlez, on 02 April 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.
It's a Centurion on steroids, is more awesome than an Awesome, and it doesn't get any street cred because it lacks PPCs that any modded out boat should have to be playable

I will probably never use PPCs just because they're so popular with metagamers. I'll take my Autocannons and I'll like it! XD

[Skylarr]

All the unseen Mechs were re-released with new images. It was called Project Phoenix.

"A special TRO release, this title officially addressed the Unseen in a way that allowed their graphical use back into publication. FanPro chose to re-commission artwork for each of the affected BattleMechs, with the in-character explanation that the designs had been modernized (and, hence, been brought back into the spotlight with a different outer appearance). In this fashion, the book is a belated companion to the Technical Readout: 3025 Revised."

[00dlez]

Oswin Aurelius, on 02 April 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

I will probably never use PPCs just because they're so popular with metagamers. I'll take my Autocannons and I'll like it! XD

Amen. Give me an AC/10 and some lasers and lets scrap some clanners!

[Soviet Alex]

The problem is the Unseen. Crusader, Thunderbolt, Archer, Warhammer & Marauder have always been so utterly dominant in the heavy mech category that anything else is an "also ran". We have the Dragon/Grand Dragon (if it's not one of the starting variants, I'm mech-labbing mine) & Catapult (twin-PPC variant available?). That leaves Grasshopper (good knife-fighter), Cataphract (like an Enforcer on steroids) & Orion (mini-Atlas) as the only widely-available starting tech options. They're good, but are they good enough?

[Outlaw2]

Not including un/reseens and SL stuff, we got for heavies

Dragon
Grand Dragon
Merlin
Quickdraw
Axman
Catapult
Cestus
JagerMech
Koschei
Caesar
Cataphract
Grasshopper
Orion

I crossed out Grand Dragon since its just a Dragon variant and Cestus and Koschei are very rare. Also realise that there are many Star league downgrades that are widely spread throughout the IS. Of course they are not as common as some of the above, since those houses are not actively producing them anymore. Im still curios to know how they will handle canon "rare" mechs.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 02 April 2012 - 03:09 PM.

[Oswin Aurelius]

00dlez, on 02 April 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Amen. Give me an AC/10 and some lasers and lets scrap some clanners!

You, sir, are my new best friend. You looking forward to hunting some heavies in a Centurion like me?

[Solis Obscuri]

Oswin Aurelius, on 02 April 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

I will probably never use PPCs just because they're so popular with metagamers. I'll take my Autocannons and I'll like it! XD

PPCs are a good, pwerful weapon system, but only are a problem if the game mechanics go easy on heat management and encouraging modding out 'mechs to "one-shot" opponents with alpha strikes.

If heat management is strict and the alpha-strike isn't king, the PPC's relatively high heat output, minimum range restrictions, and slow cycle time all make it pretty well balanced against ACs. (And while I.S. ERPPCs lose the range restrictions, they produce a hell of a lot of heat!)

So if things are done right, I'm not going to worry about "energy boats" with PPCs, and I suspect they'll have fewer adherents than in MW4, since PPCs won't see any advantage over an AC/10 or AC/20 other than range, and should generally balance out well against an AC/5 for DoT and weight (using single heat sinks).

[Outlaw2]

And guys...

[Solis Obscuri]

=Outlaw=, on 02 April 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Not including un/reseens and SL stuff, we got for heavies

Dragon
Grand Dragon
Merlin
Quickdraw
Axman
Catapult
Cestus
JagerMech
Koschei
Caesar
Cataphract
Grasshopper
Orion

I crossed out Grand Dragon since its just a Dragon variant and Cestus and Koschei are very rare. Also realise that there are many Star league downgrades that are widely spread throughout the IS. Of course they are not as common as some of the above, since those houses are not actively producing them anymore. Im still curios to know how they will handle canon "rare" mechs.

The Guillotine (Irian), downgraded Flashman (Defiance Industries), and downgraded Black Knight (Kong Interstellar) should all be fairly common...

[Ronin13m]

Skylarr thank you for pointing out project phoenix that is the one technical readout book that I seem to be missing. Have to say I like some of the new art work for the Unseen. Hope this allows for the adding of my favorite 55 ton mech to the game since I would love to pilot a shadow Hawk.

[Oswin Aurelius]

People really need to stop making the arguement that a 'mech shouldn't be included just because it's ugly (probably just meaning it's look hasn't been updated for decades).

Do you all have so little faith in FlyingDebris's ability to make any 'mech badass as all hell?

[NotSid]

Give me the Catapult. That is all I ask.

[GrimJim]

Skylarr, on 02 April 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

All the unseen Mechs were re-released with new images. It was called Project Phoenix.

And the designs look *uck ugly...

...also if you want to be obsessive about timelines, most of those visual refit don't occur until 3067...

...guess we're still 18 years out.

Edited by GrimJim, 02 April 2012 - 04:58 PM.

[Alex Wolfe]

=Outlaw=, on 02 April 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

Not including un/reseens and SL stuff, we got for heavies

Dragon
Grand Dragon
Merlin
Quickdraw
Axman
Catapult
Cestus
JagerMech
Koschei
Caesar
Cataphract
Grasshopper
Orion

Out of all those, only Orion (a design dating back to the Second Punic War) is 75 tons, three others 70... and the rest is more on the puny side, from the "barely heavy", AKA "chubby medium" category.

Interesting how, disregarding unseen, there seems to be a huge gap between 65t and assaults in that time period.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 02 April 2012 - 05:05 PM.

[Mason Grimm]

There will be unseen/reseen mechs... Mark my words!!! I'll wait till after release and if I haven't heard anything by then I will start a Letter Spamming Writing Campaign!!!

What?!?!?! It's what they do with TV shows!!!

[The Smith]

I can't for the life of me understand why they can't run a fine line between unseen and re-seen. Make them look just different enough to not get sued and work in some of the visual features seen on the later re-seen mechs. With the amazing art skills on hand I'm sure they can do something like this and I think it would be cool to show how old designs evolve and change over time. I mean look at real world combat vehicles. It never made any sense to me that mech designs last hundreds of years and are made the same way by different factories in different nation states. I mean look at Ak rifle variants almost none of them are the same.

[Damecles]

Orion - good enough for general Kerensky to use, good enough for me:) its a nice mech with heavy armour and cool weapons as far as heat sinks go, it can keep on fighting when most mech around its weight class would have overheated:)