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Does anyone understand the engine weights?


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#1 Goose

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:10 AM

'Cause I don't. :-]

I can remember looking at them months ago and seeing how the gyro mass was included, but but then the numbers seems to have changed; I then heard someone say the cockpit mass (3 tons) was also included, and the numbers seem to bare that out … Until you at the rinky-dink motors, and now I'm just lost.

#2 Exilyth

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:30 AM

[redacted] engines, how do they wrork? It's a mystery.

I think engine weight should not include the cockpit and gyro, there's tech like small cockpits or xl gyros later in the timeline that changes the weight of thoose components. Having their weight included in engine weight could lead to errors later on.

#3 3rdworld

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 06:58 AM

They have removed the cockpit weight from the chassis and added it to the engines. Now chassis base weights are Tonnage x (.1 for std .05 ES).

The net effect is pretty much zero for most mechs. However if you mount a small enough engine it should give you some free tonnage.

#4 Elirion Dawn

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:21 AM

At least for engines up to 250 rating you get this formula:

engine weight is cockpit + gyro + base engine weight (xl or std engine) - (10 - number of heatsinks mounted in the engine)

Example for a 240 std engine:

3 tons (cockpit) + 3 tons (gyro) + 11.5 tons (std 240 engine) - (10-9) = 16,5 tons

Because the 240 engine only includes 9 heatsinks in its slots and the 10th must be put somewhere in the chassis. This heatsinks weights an additional ton which you have to factor in when modifying the mech, you cant run your mech with only 9 heatsinks.

The number of heatsinks in the engine equals engine rating / 25

have not tried if engines above 275 rating (engines that include 11 or more heatsinks) already have the weight of this additional heatsinks included in their weight or if the heatsinks add their weight only when they are really added

Edited by Elirion Dawn, 31 October 2012 - 07:24 AM.


#5 SmoothRider

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:45 PM

This game and the lack of information about said game is amazing. atleast quick and easy way of getting that info. So how many HS does engines hold? i remember a chart from the closed beta with the actual numbers...but cant find it anymore :D

#6 3rdworld

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:48 PM

View PostSmoothRider, on 31 October 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

This game and the lack of information about said game is amazing. atleast quick and easy way of getting that info. So how many HS does engines hold? i remember a chart from the closed beta with the actual numbers...but cant find it anymore :D


A Engine will hold rating/25 rounded down. Anything over a 275 gets 1 or more extra HS slots. Anything 245 or less must mount 1 or more heatsinks in the chassis.

Edited by 3rdworld, 31 October 2012 - 12:48 PM.


#7 SmoothRider

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:55 PM

i found. http://www.docstoc.c.../133688193/MWO# Look at page 5 down on the left. enigne weigth-heat sink ratio. still valid?

#8 wanderer

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:22 PM

Nope. Used to be engines got heat sinks equal to rating/25, free of charge. This was a kludge.

The way it works now is this. "Engine" includes the cockpit (3 tons), gyro (1 ton per 100 rating or fraction therein), plus the engine weight from tabletop.

If the engine is below 250, it's weight is discounted 1 ton per heat sink below 10 the engine can't fit internally- so a 200 rated engine gets a 2-ton discount. However, all 'Mechs must launch with at least 10 sinks (singles or doubles, no mixing) so you'll have to spend that "discount" tonnage on mounting external heat sinks to get that 10 (or more) sink count- so in the end, it's engine + gyro + cockpit anyway, only some of the engine's 10 sinks have to be mounted in crit spaces on the chassis.

Engines at 250-270 fit 10 sinks internally. Nothing more required and no "discount" for sinks in any way.

275+ engines come with 10 sinks and can have additional sinks placed in the engine- for every 25 rating above 250, there's room for a heat sink in engine storage. These sinks still cost a ton's worth of weight, but take up zero critical slots in the 'Mech chassis. For example, a 300 engine comes with 10 sinks free of charge, and you can buy two more for a ton each and store them in the engine- crit-space free. #13 and on would take the normal weight and crit spaces to carry.

250+ engines all come with 10 sinks and are tabletop weight (plus gyro and cockpit, as noted).

Edited by wanderer, 31 October 2012 - 08:22 PM.


#9 SmoothRider

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:52 PM

View Postwanderer, on 31 October 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Snip


Ty for a very good answer! just what i was looking for :(

#10 Clogman

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 11:10 PM

Why not just colorcode the engines in the mech lab, so i can see if i can cram it in my mech or not ?
(Green , you got money for it and it can fit, tonnage wise + slot wise (and heatsinks are countered for)
(Yellow as above, except you lack the funds)

This fidling with engines is a pain in the arse as it is and people shouldn't have to lookup additional information on forums to figure it out.

#11 Derek Icelord

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:19 AM

View PostClogman, on 31 October 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

Why not just colorcode the engines in the mech lab, so i can see if i can cram it in my mech or not ?
(Green , you got money for it and it can fit, tonnage wise + slot wise (and heatsinks are countered for)
(Yellow as above, except you lack the funds)

This fidling with engines is a pain in the arse as it is and people shouldn't have to lookup additional information on forums to figure it out.

It's pretty close to that already, you just have to unequip your current engine first (don't have to save anything). Engines will turn green if you can fit them in, though you'll have to check the red text in the bottom center to see if you've got the C-Bills for it.

#12 Clogman

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:25 AM

What i found most annoying is, when i fit an engine that is less tonnage, which is my goal, to free up some tonnage, i get the annoying (you need X heatsinks to fit this engine) messages, so the result is it still weigh too much :rolleyes:

#13 Goose

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 01:28 AM

Thanks, all: Seems a funny way to do it, but as the only time it might distort things are down in the dinky engines no one would use, and it simplified the heatsink code (no versions that take crits but not weight), I guess it gets the job done.

I do suspect some of the newer observers get turned around about what "held" heatsinks is supposed to mean: All fusion engines in Battletech come with 10 HSs, standard or double, free of weight; But on the smaller models, some of the free HSs still need to eat up crits, while bigger motors can "hide" the crits for more then 10 HSs, even though such HSs still cost weight.

#14 wanderer

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:36 AM

View PostClogman, on 01 November 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

What i found most annoying is, when i fit an engine that is less tonnage, which is my goal, to free up some tonnage, i get the annoying (you need X heatsinks to fit this engine) messages, so the result is it still weigh too much ;)


Yeah, it's STILL kludgy now, though the kludge results in TT-correct weights now instead of shorting some engines and over-sinking others. Just remember that under 250-weight engines need an extra ton for heat sinks (singles or doubles) for every 25 or fraction of 25 rating less.

245-225 = needs 1 HS
220-200 = needs 2 HS
195-175 = needs 3 HS
170-150 = needs 4 HS
145-125 = needs 5 HS
120-100 = needs 6 HS

etc. etc.

250-270 engines come with and fit all 10 of their HS in the engine.

Likewise, although they only come with 10 HS, 275+ engines can fit this many additional sinks in their engines:

275-295 = 1 HS (fits 11 in engine)
300-320 = 2 HS (12)
325-345 = 3 HS (13)
350-370 = 4 HS (14)
375-395 = 5 HS (15)
400 = 6 HS (16)

#15 Lootee

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 07:54 AM

I think the engines smaller than 250 should have some kind of text in the item description stating how many external heatsinks you must add to make it a legal config.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 01 November 2012 - 08:02 AM.


#16 Hersaint

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 08:19 AM

View PostPanchoTortilla, on 01 November 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

I think the engines smaller than 250 should have some kind of text in the item description stating how many external heatsinks you must add to make it a legal config.


I totally agree with the above post. I also have been surprised by the lack of tooltip info in teh mechlab or simply just basic info from enginges and heatsinks to weapon damage. This game is supposedly in the future right? Do they want us to go back to pen and paper while we shoot gayzer beams from 50 ton body suits?





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