55 replies to this topic

[Kahna]

Again, I have to re-iterate this. I was speaking about VERY GOOD Jenner pilots. The field is littered with terrible ones and many people simply assume that their "Scout" killer builds are good. Sorry, they're not.

Commandos with 3 Streaks and Lasers has the same firepower a Jenner with 2 Streaks and Lasers does. The Jenner can take more hits, has more cooling capacity so it can continuously fire Alpha strikes and can rapidly change direction with jump jets. Even with two elite pilots, the Jenner simply will win every time due to the above qualities. I've fought these builds, they're quite funny. They can never keep lock because I'm crisscrossing through and over them with my jump jets.

CAT A1's with 6 Streaks ROFL, what a terrible build that is. I guess you fight Jenners that run in straight lines, slow down to turn or reverse to get a firing solution? CAT's are easy to beat with hit and fade, jump jet acrobatics and cutting back and forth across them to break locks or throw off the Streaks.

Circling Strafing and firing Streaks at a fast Light really doesn't work. You may see them hit, but watch the armor readout next time. They'll either not do any damage (because they actually missed, they can't track such a tight angle) or they'll hit the arm. Streaks need to be treated like Air to Air missiles, they have to be lined up for a shot. Jenners can do this in a circle duel or on the run because of jump jet hopping.

None of the Mediums are fast enough, though the new Centurion and the eventual release of the Trebuchet (great anti-light hardpoints btw) will give the terribad light pilots a headache.

Assault Mech Light Killer? LOL. Please... You're joking right? Any good Light pilot will joust or pull figure eights with you. Such a slow and big target...

[Halen]

agree with Kahna.... about the only thing i fear in my -D is getting lit up by LRM's when I I'm not expecting it or getting ganged up on by two or three SSRM (Commando or Cat) boats where I don't have room to maneuver. And every now and then you'll run up against another Jenner pilot that knows what he's doing, don't fear those because they're fun but you do occasionally lose a very few of them. One on one though I can take down anything, from an Atlas on down.

[Regina Redshift]

Just want to note that (as of a few patches ago) a fully tweaked out Jenner can out-corner SSRMs. This will happen if they're running across your FOV and closing to you at the same time.

[Reaver225]

Kahna, on 05 November 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Commandos with 3 Streaks and Lasers has the same firepower a Jenner with 2 Streaks and Lasers does. The Jenner can take more hits, has more cooling capacity so it can continuously fire Alpha strikes and can rapidly change direction with jump jets. Even with two elite pilots, the Jenner simply will win every time due to the above qualities. I've fought these builds, they're quite funny. They can never keep lock because I'm crisscrossing through and over them with my jump jets.

Archwright, on 06 November 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

Just want to note that (as of a few patches ago) a fully tweaked out Jenner can out-corner SSRMs. This will happen if they're running across your FOV and closing to you at the same time.

There's a couple of tricks to killing lights with SSRMs: and it's to:

1: make sure you've got a good shot before firing. If you're missing because the little guy is moving too fast, shoot ONLY when they're heading towards or away from you, and if they're turning, shoot AHEAD of them. You can move your cross hairs and torso slightly before losing your lock, and it'll help the streaks compensate.

2: BE FASTER THAN THEM. If you're faster than your opponent (a 195 in a commando tends to go faster than most) or equally as fast, you can stay in the sweet spot where you're behind them and their streaks miss you while your hit them.

I like my 3streakmander a heck of a lot, and it does wreck a majority of folks. I should try something different, though; I'm hoping SSRMs do get nerfed a bit in fact.

[WarhawkX]

Kahna, on 05 November 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Again, I have to re-iterate this. I was speaking about VERY GOOD Jenner pilots. The field is littered with terrible ones and many people simply assume that their "Scout" killer builds are good. Sorry, they're not.

I see you had time to build the mech try it then give your opinion. Oh, you didn't? So you are purely speaking from your ***?

Look if you are going to post a topic on the forum then **** on everyone's answers, do not post at all if you feel you know better.

If everyone is answering your question to less than your expectations, you may as well assume you know more and go figure it out yourself instead of ASKING other people.



Seriously, A dragon can put on speed enough to catch ANY Jenner with enough damage to make it cry. I have had GOOD Jenner pilots second guess coming back at my assaults I'm covering because I AM there.

Until you grind out the 4.9 million to put the XL 300 into a DRG-1N. I don't want to see a single forum post out of you saying a build is crap.

[Forzian]

Well if you have CBills to burn, I imagine a CN9-D with a 390XL, 2 med las, 2 streaks w/ 3-4 tons ammo would work..thing would run about 125kph lol.

[Col Forbin]

As an experienced Jenner pilot... there is no assault mech that is a good choice for killing Jenners. My founders Jenner goes 150kph w/jump jets, 4 small pulse, and SRM. I giggle with glee whenever I catch an Awesome or Atlas alone. It might take 5 mins, but I will core your rear center torso armor and kill you, laughing at ponderous attempts to torso twist my direction. Hunchbacks don't scare me, I just explode their "hunch" as it's a huge target from all angles. A good Centurion pilot will sometimes give me pause with their arm-mounted weapons. Catapaults... I generally avoid. They have a large torso twist range and either a bunch of streaks or maybe a couple gauss, which if they score a lucky hit with is bad news for me. There is no way that Cat can catch a Jenner, so no threat there. If it turns out the Cat is an LRM-boat I might go in for the kill.

So naturally I also dabble in scout killing with other builds. My Jenner naturally makes a pretty good scout killer. A Dragon with a 360XL in it is great for chasing scouts away, and sometimes killing them. 97kph, w/ an AC10 and 2 medium pulse, LRMs for when they have run farther off. Arm-mounted weapons allow for better aiming at the fast movers. Hard to land hits on em with the AC10, but it sends enough large rounds at em to scare em off.

Best for the killing though.... Cicada. XL320 with an LBX10 and 2 medium lasers. Heavier. More armor. 130kph. A giant shotgun. No smart Jenner pilot would try to go toe-to-toe with a Cicada. Been killed in my Jenner with Cicada/5 medium laser build, so that seems pretty effective too.

Edited by Col Forbin, 09 November 2012 - 07:11 AM.

[Chiron]

Centurion CN-A is a great pick, has the perfect hardpoints & armor/speed balance for hunting scouts.

LBX-10
2mlas or 2mplas, depending on heat/weight/engine choice
3x SSRM in left torso
AMS in right torso with CASE for all ammo

lbx10 + SSRM is just a complete scout killer. nice thing is that when an assault shows up, you are faster, 300 armor, and assaults are so big, your LBX cant miss!

I would AVOID XL engines in any scout killer, as rear side torsos are weak, and scouts are DESIGNED to hit there...so dont XL and blow up when your side torso does!

[Wolfcp]

My "go-to" Dragon build is decent enough against scouts. It's hardly a dedicated scout killer, but it goes 87kph, has an arm mounted LLAS and a couple of MLAS. The arms and decent engine allow you to track a scout and keep pace with it for a short bit. Of course I can't run down jenners, but it's more than enough to keep facing them and make them worry. The heavy armour means I am well protected, and If they ever give an opening a good Guass shot can strip half their armour in one hit. Nailing a Jenner with that baby is the most fun ever.

If you wanted to dedicate it to scout killing, a Dragon with Pulse lasers would probably work well. Take out the guass and put in a bigger engine and heatsinks. Maybe an LBX-10, I've heard good things about it.

Otherwise, my H-4SP works well. Excellent torso twist, goes 87kph, and 4 MLAS. can easily track a scout. 2 Streaks help out too. You have more armour so if you keep a bead on them you can win the fight handily.

[Mel Mad Dog Winters]

I'd have to agree with what some people have said already.


In addition to acting as a scout or being a scout build, you can have heavier light mechs such as a Jenner (practically a medium - it's as heavy as a light gets) as fast strikers or support (as escort) mechs. I play Jenners for the latter two, and only because my favorite mechs from the board game (iconic fast jump-capable mediums) don't exist in this yet.

I do pretty well at killing other lights in my Jenners. Usually my biggest problem is that everyone else stops firing at the more serious targets that are actually doing serious damage to us and they stop to fire at the enemy Jenner. Quite frankly, that's what light and fast medium escorts are good at—not all mechs. Some mechs, like an Atlas, are built to wreak massive damage to entire lances—not chase down and pinpoint target small fast moving lights. My other problem in running as an anti-Jenner Jenner, is that when people don't succeed in blocking my shots, they sometimes miss my target and hit me instead.

All an experienced Jenner player needs to do is get in another Jenner's six for a bit and they can start tearing the enemy light apart. If the enemy pilot is good, then you will have a Jenner duel which is fun to be in as a Jenner pilot. Either way, if you have a light engage the enemy light, the enemy light has to focus on your light or your light will tear him apart if he focuses on one of your heavies, etc. So, this frees up the heavier mechs to focus on more important tagets than a Jenner, or the Jenner dies at the hands of your team's light.

So, yes, escort lights are there precisely to take care of such a problem. Otherwise, any mech fast enough and maneuverable enough to not have circles run around them can do a pretty good job, too. You don't have to match a Jenner's speed so much as be fast enough that you can keep them in your sights.

Another thing that works pretty well is simple team support in other ways. When a Jenner is circling a big slow mech like an Atlas they are really hard to target for just one mech: the slow mech who they are focused on and purposely outmaneuvering. While doing this, (we) Jenner pilots are no longer zig zagging, running behind cover, or otherwise devoting all our energy and attention into being a hard target for everyone in general. We become more focused on our target. Especially if a Jenner is just running a circle around their target, a teammate can fairly easily aid their friend and target the Jenner. There are also pilots out there who can crack my legs at long range like it's nothing. A missile boat in proper range is also very good at aiding a teammate being harassed by a Jenner. As soon as it's a Jenner verus two mechs, I have to start focusing on just staying alive, and forget about harassing my target.

Jenners are supposed to be very hard to hit with a good pilot and be capable of being fast striker combat mechs—not just scouts. That's the whole point of playing one. Otherwise, there's little incentive for someone like me to play them. That's all they have going for them as a viable support/escort mech choice. That being said, there are some very effective ways of countering them.

I think the original post had the right idea: which mechs are good at killing Jenners? This recognizes that not all mechs are capable at doing everything and there is no one superior choice. Otherwise, we'd just being playing Atlas Online.

I don't know the current state of Streak Cats, but during some patches they were so effective that there was nothing any light could do to survive. Same goes for various tweaks with LRMs. Currently, it's almost like LRMs don't exist—I barely notice them. The last patch they were so effective, there was no point to me playing my Jenner at all. So, depending on patches, there is also that.

Also, regarding the so-called 'lag armor', I find it extremely annoying too when another light seems to teleport. However, this might be of some small comfort to some out there. I don't know what other people are experiencing while piloting lights but here are examples of what happens to me when lag hits me:
- I sometimes have no idea where I am or what I'm looking at
- I sometimes don't dare fire my weapons because I don't know for sure who is in front of me
- I can be crippled by my view teleporting—unable to fight effectively and unable to aid my teammates. Sometimes unable to do anything at all...
- I can be behind cover with no one in sight and suddenly take a lot of damage (this is usually about 5 to 12 seconds after enemy fire seemed to miss me).
- My streak missiles can be red and all locked on an enemy and refuse to fire. This is the game saying, "Hah hah, you are not actually where you think you are."

Overall, my ability to play and survive goes down when I get hit by lag. If it happens enough, I can't play at all. So, I don't know about other Jenner players in other parts of the world, but if you see me with 'lag armor' take comfort in knowing that I'm practically pulling my hair out in frustration, I * am * getting hit, I * am * dieing, and until then I'm otherwise neutralized as a threat until I become a smoking heap. People might not see their shot hit, but somebody's damage from somewhere does get applied (perhaps 10 seconds after the fact). It's such a horrible experience that I often think of never playing again when it happens.

Best of luck and have fun!

Edited by Mel Mad Dog Winters, 10 November 2012 - 09:36 AM.

[Mel Mad Dog Winters]

I find this combination stops me pretty quickly and usually seems to be the most effective counter to my harassment attempts in a Jenner:

1. My target focuses on me just enough to not let me core him easily or what not.
2. One or more enemy Jenners/Commandos/Cicadas/etc. jump me forcing me to switch attention to them. I can chose to ignore them but I'll die pretty quickly if I do.
3. One (only one is necessary to ruin my day) mech who is not a light, not the target (or can be the target after I've switched focus), has significant firepower, and who is either a good shot or who has missiles helps (mindful to not shoot his own lights).
4. Everyone else ignores me as an annoying little threat and focuses on the more serious targets on my team.

If I make a mistake and allow myself to get into the above situation, I can be dead in seconds if I don't get out immediately. With people who know what they are doing, getting out may be very hard to accomplish. Even if I run for all I'm worth, the other lights can keep me lit for LRMs.

I find the above mix will take my harassment attempt, throw it back at me, and quickly stomp me to dust. It also involves a small investment of time and attention for the enemy team while leaving a significant number of their mechs able to ignore me completely and focus on our team's bigger mechs.

It's an 'oh s$%&^, I bit off more than I can chew' situation, where the enemy team can deal with me as nothing more than a minor distraction. Obviously, I try very hard to avoid such a situation now.

[Fussion166]

I use a cicada with 4 medium pulses on it all on torso to bring to bear . It's a blast being able to follow any light with that medium and have the benefits of added armor. Only for those who like driving fast!!!

[Eisenhorne]

I haven't met the light mech who can handle my DRG-1C

XL300 engine
20 double heat sinks
400/402 armor (-1 on each leg)
62/18 CT
38/18 RT and LT

2 ER Large Lasers in the shoulder mount
2 Medium Lasers in the arm mount
AMS w/ 1 ton ammo
SSRM2 w/ 1 ton ammo

Weapons grouping:
Medium Lasers + SSRM on 1
ER LL's on 2

[Bagheera]

CN9-D

Fast as you can fit it (should be able to take up to a 390 engine)

2x SRM6 + FCS
2X MPL



They won't be able to circle you, and you'll be able to line up on their back for an alpha or two before they've got enough distance on you to make you miss.

Mediums with engines >335 or so were the reason that light pilots cried bitter tears and engine restrictions were put in place. Take advantage of the 1 medium that can still do that.

Before engine restrictions I would have said the (I forget which has 3 missle hardpoints) because you can fit 3xsrm6. I had one back when they could go fast enough to be effective. There's something to be said for a 113+ kph srm18 rack running around the field. Can't get enough speed out of that one anymore though.

Edited by Bagheera, 12 November 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[Lon3Wo1f]

I generally play heavy or assault so I tend to hate scouts and sometimes switch to builds that might not kill scouts but they give them a choice of hassling me and taking heavy damage or finding a less painful target. For those times I have three separate builds but they're nothing spectacular.

Hunchback '4SP with stock weapons config. I'm not at my gaming computer right now so I don't know if this is accurate or as I have it so don't take this as a concrete build. I'm pretty sure I have either Ferro or Double Heatsinks in there and it still has a low heat efficiency of around 1.19 but it's enough to make lights run if you can aim. I might have Artemis in there to tighten the SRM6s up.

Cat - C4. I bought this as my third Cat yesterday and tried two builds but the second was more effective than trying to be a jack of all trades. 4x Streak SSRM2s and 2x Medium Lasers. I put the Streak launchers into cycle but keep the MLs firing together. A Streakcat might have a more intimidating factor but if it loses both launchers all it can do is run around or explode.

Cat - C1. The Streakcat. I don't think I need to post the build since it's just like any others.

Out of the three the Hunchback seems to give more punching factor and I've taken out a few Atlas with it while using it in closed beta and now open beta but if it loses both shoulders you're just a running target. The C4 Cat lets me last longer and can fit jumpjets as well as still being a pain with the torso MLs.

Edited by Lon3Wo1f, 12 November 2012 - 04:02 PM.

[Grugore]

I have no problem killing them with my gauss cat.