42 replies to this topic

[Master Cerberus]

Hello folks,

I have finally gotten into a mech I am comfortable in but now I am having issues trying to tweak it to perform properly. I was hoping I could draw on your experience to help me do that.

I usually prefer being a sniper, I tried jamming two ER PPCs onto it but that had very limited success for me. I am forced out of my preferred role too often to be comfortable. I often find myself as the center of attention as light mechs swarm to pick off the not so armored and not quite so mobile mediums before tackling heavier targets. So I am shifting my needs to fighting off the lights and being able to slug it out with much more damaging builds to disable them.

- I am focusing on Mid/Close Range Combat.
- Using energy based weapons only.
- Need space for AMS.
- Focus on sustainability of combat.
- Mobility and quicker turning.

So far my build consists of 9 medium lasers and enough double heatsinks to allow me to fire them all at once about every 20-25 seconds, I also carry an AMS with 4000 rounds of ammo. However, I am sensing this is not the best way to go. I am wondering if it would be better to switch to an alternative energy weapon to get more damage and reliability out of my machine. I was wondering if a reduced number of pulse lasers or PPCs would be better in this case. I also dont have a firm understanding of how people manage to get endo steel armor and double heatsinks on their mechs and what the benifit of endo steel armor is.

[Icebound]

PPCs are worthless, pulse lasers are getting more heat added to them on Tuesday so I'd learn to live without them, and more than 1 ton of AMS ammo is usually excessive.

Endo makes your mech weigh less, giving you more tonnage to use in exchange for crit space, so if you can have it and still fit all your equipment, go for it. In your case I would think you could. However I'm not sure how double heatsinks will play out on your mech, probably will be beneficial, but you'll need to do some math before switching back and forth.

If your heat is still unmanageable after Tuesday's patch I would consider swapping in some small lasers instead of all mediums.

[Mister French]

As a jenner pilot I can tell you that I have been stomped by some Hunchie 4Ps armed with nothing but small lasers. They may be short range but en mass with a nice solid hit they are very damaging. That may free up enough tonnage to max your armor and maybe get a faster engine. I would go with FF armor and see how many free critical slots you have before upgraing anything else. Double heat sinks right now do not work properly in the "engine" slots so keep that in mind. Oh and i would not go with that many tons of AMS ammo, one is enough. Stick to standard engines as well you will lik\ve alot longer in a brawl. End of my 2 cents, good hunting.

[Master Cerberus]

Icebound, on 03 November 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

PPCs are worthless, pulse lasers are getting more heat added to them on Tuesday so I'd learn to live without them, and more than 1 ton of AMS ammo is usually excessive.

Endo makes your mech weigh less, giving you more tonnage to use in exchange for crit space, so if you can have it and still fit all your equipment, go for it. In your case I would think you could. However I'm not sure how double heatsinks will play out on your mech, probably will be beneficial, but you'll need to do some math before switching back and forth.

If your heat is still unmanageable after Tuesday's patch I would consider swapping in some small lasers instead of all mediums.

Are you able to have both double heat sinks and endo steel armor? Does it matter if I already have my armor maxed with the current build, as in would it give me more? Also what is the heat nerf in the tuesday patch?

Mister Frenchie, on 03 November 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

As a jenner pilot I can tell you that I have been stomped by some Hunchie 4Ps armed with nothing but small lasers. They may be short range but en mass with a nice solid hit they are very damaging. That may free up enough tonnage to max your armor and maybe get a faster engine. I would go with FF armor and see how many free critical slots you have before upgraing anything else. Double heat sinks right now do not work properly in the "engine" slots so keep that in mind. Oh and i would not go with that many tons of AMS ammo, one is enough. Stick to standard engines as well you will lik\ve alot longer in a brawl. End of my 2 cents, good hunting.

I laughed my *** off as another hunchback came over the ridge and hit me with his volley of light lasers only to have me return it with a volley of 9 mediums, he didnt win that fight. Which is why it leads me to ask are light lasers really viable on a mech like this, I would not question the suggestion for a light mech but I am interested in the resoning behind using them on mediums.

Edited by Master Cerberus, 03 November 2012 - 07:35 AM.

[Mister French]

endo steel is not armor, its the internal structure. You are able to have double heat sinks, endo steel structure and FF amor, however with all three you may not have enough criticals to put in all your weapons/gear. FF armor gives you more armor per ton in other words it saves tonnage bnut takes up critical space. In fact all the upgrades basically do just that, save weight but take mroe space. The best way is to get into that mechlab and put it all together and see what fits.

[LennStar]

No, all 3 together wont work with an energy mech (nearly no mech except lights).

Try to use Med Lasers only on the arms and Light Lasers on the 7 other hard points. Put in a medium good engine and the rest ist heat sinks. You should only go with one crit-taking upgrade, internal is mostly better then armor and cheaper. No double heat sinks, not enough crit space.
With that you can fire the 7SLas continously even on caustic. If you are a good aimer then you are deadly to all mechs from light to heavy, because you can do 21dmg every 3 seconds +MedLas at the start. Even en Atlas gets cored if you fire three of that salvos in the back (and you need only 10secs for that)

[LaserAngel]

I had my doubts but in one match a 4P blasted us to death as we crested a hill on Frozen City. It's not as well balanced as the 4SP but all of those Medium lasers at just the right time are scary.

It is partly our fault too because I topped the hill first only to get blasted and my friend in another Hunchback was in line right behind me. But yes I found a new respect for people still running Medium Laser 4Ps.

I just picked one up but I'm working most of the weekend. I think the biggest change for me is that it's not a light hunter with the dual Streak 2s I was packing on the 4SP. I'll have to think about what changes to make in my mindset while piloting the 4P.

Edited by LaserAngel, 03 November 2012 - 08:31 AM.

[Master Cerberus]

LaserAngel, on 03 November 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

I had my doubts but in one match a 4P blasted us to death as we crested a hill on Frozen City. It's not as well balanced as the 4SP but all of those Medium lasers at just the right time are scary.

It is partly our fault too because I topped the hill first only to get blasted and my friend in another Hunchback was in line right behind me. But yes I found a new respect for people still running Medium Laser 4Ps.

I just picked one up but I'm working most of the weekend. I think the biggest change for me is that it's not a light hunter with the dual Streak 2s I was packing on the 4SP. I'll have to think about what changes to make in my mindset while piloting the 4P.

What is so good about the streak 2s, I've considered them for a light mech and I am wondering why they are so loved? (/derailing of my own thread)

Edited by Master Cerberus, 03 November 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[Aware]

Master Cerberus, on 03 November 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

What is so good about the streak 2s, I've considered them for a light mech and I am wondering why they are so loved? (/derailing of my own thread)

They lock on and tend to hit CT more than anything else.

[Vallyn]

I run a 4P as my main hunchie, though I have a 4SP I use for hunting lights as well.

There are a few things I still am tweaking right now but I currently have:

260XL Engine
2xMPL in the arms
6xML in the Hunch
1xSL cockpit
AMS w/ 1Ton Ammo

Endosteel frame, 22 HS total. Armoured up the legs.

The MPL are a weapon group, the 6ML are set to a chain fire weapon group, and 6ML and SL to a single shot weapon group.

Runs very very hot - but with the speed it gives most stock commando's and ravens a good run for their money, and I can core out heavies and assaults form the rear in 3 or so hits.

Just have to be patient and watch your heat - cockpit shots with the third weapon group almost always result in a kill with a solid hit.

I am going to switch over the XL engine to a standard and put in DHS instead - I think the weight will put it to 24 HS equiv with the Standard engine for a bit more survivability.

The key here is to use the speed this hbk has - 90kph with the elite bonus. You can easily flank and circle most slower mechs and you have enough speed to keep lights very wary - or dead if they aren't careful.

[Antony Weiner]

Vallyn, on 03 November 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

I am going to switch over the XL engine to a standard and put in DHS instead

Should definitely do that. The first thing I do when encounter a 4P like yours is destroy the right torso, which would kill you with an XL engine. XL engine is inappropriate in your build, imo.

[Vallyn]

Antony Weiner, on 03 November 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

Should definitely do that. The first thing I do when encounter a 4P like yours is destroy the right torso, which would kill you with an XL engine. XL engine is inappropriate in your build, imo.

Oddly enough I rarely lose that torso - but I try hard not to leave it open to shots as I do the same thing to other HBK's. Then again I tend to figure I'd be down to 1 MPL if I lose it - so that's pretty much dead as far as I'm concerned. Best solution is to use the speed to stay mobile and avoid getting focused on for too long. Besides a prolonged fight with this build doesn't end well usually. Dash in alpha dash out.

[LaserAngel]

Master Cerberus, on 03 November 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

What is so good about the streak 2s, I've considered them for a light mech and I am wondering why they are so loved? (/derailing of my own thread)

They're very light and next to guaranteed hits in brawl range. I'm mostly a light hunter. At worst I can just scare them off and at best I can bash bro with my Hunchback parter for a kill.

I'll have to use the 4P as an ambush Hunchback over a speedy brawler/light hunter that the 4SP is.

[Selfish]

Most of an XL Swayback playstyle is being a skirmisher, not a brawler. I've run swaybacks with and without them, and the arguments for/against it are both solid. It's personal choice. Just don't use an XL to downgrade into a heavier hitting brawler. Don't do it. You need the speed if you're going to make yourself easier to kill.

The advantage of small lasers is their ease of fitting, low heat, fast refire, faster application than mlas, and solid damage. 7x Small Lasers = 21 damage and 7 DPS. They're a sustainable AC20 on wheels--but lack the punch if you can't keep on target. They produce more heat and have less range than an AC20, but they take up much less tonnage, do better damage over time, and are efficient on the ammo. With the amount of HS you keep on a Swayback, the extra heat is negligible compared to heat management on a 4G w/ an AC20. The freed up tonnage usually amounts to better engines/armor/HS. Hope this helps explain why people use them.

I've used smalls, small pulses, and mediums in my 4P. Surprisingly, I prefer the small pulse. They're as fast an application of damage you can possibly get with lasers. It means more damage lands on your target component, and your opponent has less time to torso twist out of it. It helps lasers regain the "punch" the AC20 has. The fix (they currently aren't adding the right heat) won't hurt them too badly. At the moment I can alpha all seven for an obscene amount of time.

[Twisp]

Honestly, the 4P is never a good bet for PPC sniping. You have no option to mount low-heat backups.

If you're still interested in trying something like that out, though, I can toss out my main build;

HBK-4G

Standard 200 Engine

336 Standard Armour (1 point off on each leg, otherwise full)

H: MLas
CT: Engine, 2x tons machine gun ammo
RT: 3x Machine Guns, DHS
LT: 4x DHS
RA: ERPPC
LA: ERPPC
RL: none
LL: none

Modules: Advanced Zoom

Upgrades: Endo-Steel Internals, Double Heat Sinks

At long range, use the massive range of your PPCs to soften up mechs before others close in to brawl. Or, alternatively, pick off stragglers and lights.

At medium range, your medium laser can keep people at bay, although PPC support is still needed.

At close range, strip armour with whatever energy weapon you can manage with your heat level, and then tear up internals with the basically zero-heat MG cluster. This, of course, should be punctuated by as much energy fire as you can mange.

-

In terms of making a 4P work, I've always heard that fast builds with low-heat weaponry work very well for pretty much all brawling purposes. I'd recommend small pulses and a nice standard engine.

[Aware]

Twisp, on 04 November 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

In terms of making a 4P work, I've always heard that fast builds with low-heat weaponry work very well for pretty much all brawling purposes. I'd recommend small pulses and a nice standard engine.

I have to say after switching to a bigger engine I'm having a hard time switching back to a standard.

[Selfish]

Aware, on 04 November 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

I have to say after switching to a bigger engine I'm having a hard time switching back to a standard.

Before the engine changes I ran a 250std with 7x Slas and 2x mlas. Worked fairly well at giving you the speed of an XL without making your torsos weak. I'm betting you'd need to make concessions somewhere to make it all fit now, but it could be worth a try.

[Nechuchadnezar]

Well, interested to see heat bump for pulse lasers tuesday but if it is still viable...I use 5 md pulse lasers in early builds and as I unlock xl engine for it, add a 6th. Chews through armor. Best buiild had me with a 260 engine, ES, 6 md. pulse lasers and DHS. Very deadly.

[Lefty Lucy]

If you like sniping with the 4P, I suggest a couple of LL (not ERLL) in the arms for precision control, then load up on small lasers in HD and RT for point-blank defense.

[Sepertar]

The trick with the 4-P is aiming and heat. Aim for the head, and practice at testing grounds.