425 replies to this topic

[SpoonFox]

Huuh, guys before this thread gets out off hand.
The heat values of lasers where also not correct if you read the patch notes (some of 50% or 75% of what it should be).

So I do not know if you simply are able to compare figures of before and now.

[AceTimberwolf]

Yea my Dragon was at 2.0 EFF before Now down to 1.83 and I can still just hold down my MPLS and AC5 and Streaks. Thats including MPLS being hotter. Obviously the troll Builds take the biggest hit like the 9 SPL Hunchi and 6 SPL Jenner/Cicada but thats what balance is. You are not suppose to be able to hold down the Fire Button. (Unless you are a Missle Boat....) = P

Krazed MF, on 06 November 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

DHS. Put that crap back to what it was.

Now.

For the Most Part they are better. Just Some Builds because of Crit Space take a hit. You guys are complaining too much when you haven't looked at how its been implemented. If you do better with SHS then go SHS if you have the Crit Space go DHS. Thats how it goes. Thats how it is supposed to be

[Murilo Specht]

Stop crying over numbers and try your mechs in the battlefield, the heat is not that much worse, really.

[WardenWolf]

Preface: I know that this patch saw a reduction of DHS efficiency to 1.4x rather than 2x, and that engine heatsinks now also are included (they weren't when introduced), and that another bug with fast-firing lasers was uncovered during this 'fix'. It was stated that this change to DHS was needed because some builds became far too powerful with them, specifically laser boats it would seem:

Given the above, my questions are thus:

1) Did you ever try 2x DHS with the fast-firing laser heat fixed? I can definitely see how the combination of increased heat and lasers that were running too cool already could be a bad combo, but changing both at once has felt like a big nerf to larger mechs trying to equip heavy energy weapons.

2) It appears from comments Garth made that heat *capacity* may be the issue you were concerned with, rather than *dissipation rates*. Is that correct? If so, why does maximum heat capacity have to be tied to dissipation speed? The later seems to be the main concern that players have with the way DHS have been changed.

Thank you for your time, and all the work you put in on this game!

[Elder Thorn]

Shredhead, on 06 November 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

You may appease me with a sacrificial lamb, drugs and wild orgies.

i will, actually twice. The second one for your excellent tactics guides on MWO-Mercs.de

[Hexcaliber]

Actually, what is broken is the way heat efficiency is calculated for display in the mechbay, its now a pointless number as it bears no resemblance to what is going on, Set up a mech chassis with a fixed number of singles, switch to doubles, install to get what should be the same heat efficiency and the display in the mechbay is different.

[Ronin Cahill]

i actually benchmark my tijmes for heat dissipation based on 4 med pulse lasers. with the 2.0 DHS i went from 9 to 6 seconds to cooldown, with a 1.4 value the time went nicely back up to 8-9 secs..fractions of a seconds better than single HS. remmber the key word with double heat sinks is DOUBLE not 1.4.

[AceTimberwolf]

Ronin Cahill, on 06 November 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

i actually benchmark my tijmes for heat dissipation based on 4 med pulse lasers. with the 2.0 DHS i went from 9 to 6 seconds to cooldown, with a 1.4 value the time went nicely back up to 8-9 secs..fractions of a seconds better than single HS. remmber the key word with double heat sinks is DOUBLE not 1.4.

What about ur Elite Heat Eff playing its part? or are you not there yet? the x2 breaks the heat sinks if they were DHS for real+

Edited by AceTimberwolf, 06 November 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[Ronin Cahill]

no elite perk was part of that benchmark. i do have with the perk though, similar difference just a hair less time.

[whiteboy007]

JingleHell, on 06 November 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

My builds have literally not changed at all and yet, it is now harder to overheat.

Now, is it a fact that, like usual there's thresholds where certain items aren't ideal in a build? Yes, welcome to a MechWarrior game. Some mechs are limited by tonnage, others by critical slots. This is not new. You pick and choose the ideal components for your use of your chassis.

Given that I had three of the hottest weapons in the game I knew my heat threshold was indeed being pushed. I did view DHS as my way of controlling those heat monsters. I suppose then, that my disappointment is based solely on being limited by how many DHS I can use.

In the end the answer is clearly as you stated. Scale back my designs to fit within the framework of what is currently possible.

[WVAnonymous]

Also, as far as challenging laser usage, too much heat, whatever, it would only take 1 simple change to spin everyone on their axes.

30 minute matches.

[WardenWolf]

/ Shameless bump

[Shredhead]

Elder Thorn, on 06 November 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

i will, actually twice. The second one for your excellent tactics guides on MWO-Mercs.de

Thanks a lot, Sir, thanks a lot!

[Shroomicide]

I actually found that my 'Mech is now MORE heat efficient after the patch. Previously, there has been a flat rate 6% heat gain on all maps for me. This means that by the time my weapons have recharged, I have gained 6% heat. My Hunchback is equipped with 16 double heat sinks and two large lasers. Nothing was changed between patches.

On Frozen City, there is -4% heat gain between shots.

On Caustic Valley, there is 5% heat gain between shots.

On River City, there is 2.5% heat gain between shots.

On Forest Colony, there is 2-3% heat gain between shots.

So, the patch (for me) has actually lowered my heat. Not sure why, my efficiency apparently went down to 1.11 from 1.36.

[PrinnyCanBeHero]

Hey, to the guy claiming you could coolant flush in every MechWarrior game ever made? You're full of crap. That was a MW4 introduction. Never had that capability in any of the MW2 or MW3 games I owned.

Also, just played with new DHS in my Founders HBK-4G in Frozen City. Stock weapons, 12 DHS. If I held down the fire button on my lasers only, my head gauge was back at zero before the weapons recharged. The same exact config before today's patch would overhead if I constantly fired those lasers. The old DHS were bugged, BAD. Don't look at your heat efficiency in the MechLab, try the mech in game and see how it plays. I bet you'll find your heat management to be improved.

[Muffinator]

Rebump & +1 for sensible questions

[WaKK0]

I know we shouldn't have tabletop vs this game comparisons... The table top version was balanced, grilled and refined over for years and years... This games implementation of trying to make those balances the way you think it should fit in this game is what is wrong, not that original concept and settings.

Double heat sinks should by all definitions work 2x the rating of an original heat sink That was the methodology behind it all, the extra heat dissipation for larger space usage at the same tonnage until clan tech comes into play. It was to force people to pick between using 3 x internal space usage or 2 x heat dissipation.

Table top was very random because of dice vs skill of players. I think that is your next critical problem. You have no way to filter out skilled players vs unskilled. So you end up with people that know how to play the game the way its initially designed (not your re-tweak and attempted adjustments) vs some poor newbie who says "Wow this looks cool, crap I'm dead! WTF!"

I truly believe and understand that you need to find a balance; however, the problem isn't the way the stats of the the items we can equip in the game, its your match making system that puts highly skilled persons against people who have no idea what they are getting themselves into. Fix your match making system; stop screwing with the weapons, heat sinks engines, optionals, equipment and so on. Fix the match making system... THAT is your problem with the balance of this game.

Edited by WaKK0, 06 November 2012 - 06:18 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Well said

[MavRCK]

1) Dropping out of bounds on some maps

2) Example why this is iffy -- 4 pugs with 4 premade, our base is pushed when we're all engaged.. can't get the 4 pugs with light mechs to protect our base and give us time.

Dumbing down of tactics due to .. limited communciation - group planning.

Looking forward to phase 3!

[Verminaard]

I find the fact that the heat dissipation rate, which is now lowered as well as "correct" laser heat adjustments, make laser boats very undesirable. I see lights overheating if they try carrying any more than 3 small lasers or 3 medium. Sure they still have to get used to them, but that combined with the LRM's being broken at the moment (lets hope for a hotfix), makes lasers useless.

-LRM's are way to strong with this new missile system.
-Laser heat seems high, DHS nerfed on top of it?
-Ballistic weapons seem perfect for now.

Either ECM needs to be applied ASAP or They need to be nerfed temporarily. LRMs are ruling the battlefield, with the more missleboat teams winning. The ammount of rage threads so soon is sad to say the least.


*Mostly done to bump thread*