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#41 Krivvan

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:46 PM

View PostEboli, on 06 November 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

A tongue in cheek counter to the Artemis would be to fight in caves. Should work more than 50% of maps - but then again leaves your base open for capping...


Tongue in cheek? That's what I'm actually doing. Constantly using caves/tunnels to retreat.

#42 Lane

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:47 PM

Use your lrm's to lrm the lrm'ers. Or power down and let the lights get on them, then kill the lrm'ers, with your lrm's. :ph34r:

Lane

#43 Memory

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

View PostLord Sevenous, on 06 November 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

I´m an dedicated Founder Cata driver with 2lrm20 2mls 1TAG and 1mpls I now use Artemis and I agree that NOW it is OP! I hoped that they would introduce Artemis together with ECM but as they described ECM at this stage it is horrible OP. As of now I will use my A1 with 2lrm15 and 4 ssrm2 without Artemis as a "long range brawler" to avoid using a shortcut!


Believe me when I tell you that only a crybaby would blame you for exploiting what's right in front of you. All of us with a grown-up sense of self worth have no problem with you boating Artemis. Personally, I'd Rather have you use the weapons and examine them for weaknesses. Record it when something kills you and tell us how they managed it.

View PostLane, on 06 November 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

Use your lrm's to lrm the lrm'ers. Or power down and let the lights get on them, then kill the lrm'ers, with your lrm's. :ph34r:

Lane


Wouldn't your scouts just get LRM'd to hell while you power down and leave them on their own?

View PostKrivvan, on 06 November 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:


Tongue in cheek? That's what I'm actually doing. Constantly using caves/tunnels to retreat.


Know any good spots on River City//Caustic where that has worked?

#44 Lane

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:51 PM

No, scouts can close just fine as they always have. Grab a c1 drop as a pug and find out.

Lane

#45 Memory

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 09:55 PM

View PostLane, on 06 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

No, scouts can close just fine as they always have. Grab a c1 drop as a pug and find out.

Lane


Really? That's interesting To hear. In the games we played earlier the scouts died pretty much instantly. Even at 149kph with AMS. Any builds you feel work best for this? I would be glad to get the scouts in my Company started on testing that.

#46 sakkaku

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:40 PM

View PostLane, on 06 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

No, scouts can close just fine as they always have. Grab a c1 drop as a pug and find out.

Lane


By closing fine you mean dying to 1-2 volleys of Artemis enhanced LRMs. You don't even need streaks to hunt lights any more. Just fire LRMs and laugh as they die a quick and painful death.

#47 Voodoo Circus

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:41 PM

firing unit must have line of sight to its target, indirectly fired LRM receives no increase in accuracy.
firing unit must have line of sight to its target, indirectly fired LRM receives no increase in accuracy.
firing unit must have line of sight to its target, indirectly fired LRM receives no increase in accuracy.


Sarna wiki is your friend PGI

#48 Lane

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:42 PM

I have died to lights several times in my c1 tonight, maybe your lights need to play lrm boats.

#49 Timelordwho

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:51 PM

Quote

How can we counter Artemis assisted LRM boats?


LRM80 Awesomes.

#50 Memory

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:54 PM

View PostLane, on 06 November 2012 - 10:42 PM, said:

I have died to lights several times in my c1 tonight, maybe your lights need to play lrm boats.


See my earlier question Lane, give us an example of how that is accomplished in detail. Like I said if there is a new way that is different from the old way ( since the old way has already been proven not to work) I would start practicing it immediately on top of teaching it to everybody I know, but Please tell me how it's done!

I know we all run into a lot of trolls on these forums that would ask that question sarcasticly but i genuinely want you to share so that the rest of us can fight and defeat Artemis with confidence.

View PostTimelordwho, on 06 November 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:


LRM80 Awesomes.


Elegant solution...kind of makes me sad though.

Getting killed by LRMs? Bring more LRMs!

#51 Lane

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:08 PM

View PostMemory, on 06 November 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

See my earlier question Lane, give us an example of how that is accomplished in detail. Like I said if there is a new way that is different from the old way ( since the old way has already been proven not to work) I would start practicing it immediately on top of teaching it to everybody I know, but Please tell me how it's done!

I know we all run into a lot of trolls on these forums that would ask that question sarcasticly but i genuinely want you to share so that the rest of us can fight and defeat Artemis with confidence.



Elegant solution...kind of makes me sad though.

Getting killed by LRMs? Bring more LRMs!


You would have to ask the guys killing me how they are doing it. Maybe you can figure it out, get out of your group, get in a missle boat and drop as a pug. I had decent results, but I died more than I lived, normal for me.

Lane

#52 Memory

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:11 PM

View PostLane, on 06 November 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:


You would have to ask the guys killing me how they are doing it. Maybe you can figure it out, get out of your group, get in a missle boat and drop as a pug. I had decent results, but I died more than I lived, normal for me.

Lane


How does dropping as a pug solve it? I'd hazard to guess that dropping as a pug would be more what killed you than the lights.

#53 Thorn Hallis

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:25 PM

And people worried about DHS before. :P

#54 GraveWax

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:39 PM

View PostLane, on 06 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

No, scouts can close just fine as they always have. Grab a c1 drop as a pug and find out.

Lane


I am finding my scout even at 149kph gets completely wrecked in seconds against lrm fire, you are lucky to make it alive from one cover spot to the next. The ONLY use I have found for my scout now is to try and find a sneaky spot behind or off to the side to spot for my teams LRM's, considering dumping most of the weapons on my scout for a little more armor and more AMS ammo, can't get close enough to actually attack as it only takes one LRM boat to bring you down.

Edited by GraveWax, 06 November 2012 - 11:41 PM.


#55 Lane

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:36 AM

I just tried a few matches pug style my light, it only goes 138, I am having no problem harrassing artemis lrm'd mechs. Ask some better light pilots how they are doing it.

I stink, at lights so maybe I got lucky on a few matches. I use cover, like everyone in a light should, to get to the enemy. I died plenty but only once to lrm's and while overheated. The important part is, the mech I am harrassing stops firing lrm's and focus's on me.

Lrm's will get nerfed, then something else will be overpowered for a bit, it is a cycle. As they introduce new tech and new weapons it will be a struggle for them to keep balance. And what is overpowered today could be worthless a few months from now, or maybe even next patch.

If they just fix the incoming arc of lrm's so cover works better for the slower mechs, or make the artimis line of site only, there will be less complaints. To me lrm's feel like they did a few months ago, for now we adapt or take a break. As for me i'll be slinging lrm's or sneaking up behind the slingers in my jenner. :P

Lane

Edited by Lane, 07 November 2012 - 12:36 AM.


#56 Ljeto

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:43 AM

Not good at this but i will try to contribute to this discussion. Probably stupid well just bouncing ideas.

Looks like direct approach even with cover does not work so only left with creating some kind of defensive strategy wifth fast counter attack. Now more then ever have to have more strategies then ever all depending how other side plays, timer is aginst us too ppl would get bored waiting forever.

Now is even harder to play strategy with 4 man groups, in a way imposible without PUGs support for sure (hardest part).
To many variables. Is there 2 groups or 1 group on other side will their PUGS attack aimless or all defend.

I would count on 1 hard fact, only group scout is doing painting. Other 4 PUGS on other side probably wont paint.

If streak PUG (maybe with one LRM boat on PUG side) with other PUGs would try to defend powered down group (circle shaped 4) untill their scouts are eliminated and other PUGs warn them of incoming lost souls. I would call that a good start.
Now they have no scouts to paint and LRM boats need LOS so its forcing them to abandon far hills and covers.

Scout cant paint power down mech can he, and can inflict only small damage on heavy power down mechs and besides group could power on ever so offten just in case VOIP.

Or if u make whole team power down and have group streak on seek and destroy mission.

My point is to make them commence attack. If they cant see movement it will make them nervous (as what is other side up to), inpatient (as timer is ticking lets go find them), mad (as what to do now we got no painter).
Even if scout finds you and report as powered down they will take that as attack now or game is draw maybe they send in PUGs to flush you out.

There is many strategies and playbooks are very thick as there is something for every situation. But only few can recognise situation and act acordingly in time they have.

That would cover step 1 how to avoid to be killed under 2min or maybe not. Now to think so more.

I know its lot of text and I hope you guys dont make fun of me trying :P

#57 GraveWax

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:55 AM

View PostLane, on 07 November 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

I just tried a few matches pug style my light, it only goes 138, I am having no problem harrassing artemis lrm'd mechs. Ask some better light pilots how they are doing it.

I stink, at lights so maybe I got lucky on a few matches. I use cover, like everyone in a light should, to get to the enemy. I died plenty but only once to lrm's and while overheated. The important part is, the mech I am harrassing stops firing lrm's and focus's on me.

Lrm's will get nerfed, then something else will be overpowered for a bit, it is a cycle. As they introduce new tech and new weapons it will be a struggle for them to keep balance. And what is overpowered today could be worthless a few months from now, or maybe even next patch.

If they just fix the incoming arc of lrm's so cover works better for the slower mechs, or make the artimis line of site only, there will be less complaints. To me lrm's feel like they did a few months ago, for now we adapt or take a break. As for me i'll be slinging lrm's or sneaking up behind the slingers in my jenner. :P

Lane


please feel free to enlighten me, I don't claim to be the best light pilot but I would love to know how you harass an lrm boat when his buddy is sitting 200 meters away and can lob enough lrms at you to kill you in seconds regardless of whether you run for cover?

#58 Lane

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:58 AM

Maybe you should give up and use lrm's.

Lane

Edited by Lane, 07 November 2012 - 01:00 AM.


#59 GraveWax

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:05 AM

View PostLane, on 07 November 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

Maybe you should give up and use lrm's too.

Lane


anyone can harass or defeat a single LRM Boat that has no support, but that is a fail group to start with. personally I will keep searching for a tactic that works, though I have bought down my K/D ratio to below 2.0 now searching for it :P, if it wasn't for the odd game without a couple of lrm boats working together it would be sinking like a rock.

#60 Gaan Cathal

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:07 AM

I'd just like to echo those who've already reported one important fact regarding this LRM issues with this patch:

Artemis appears to not be the cause of the vertical firing arc. I've used LRMs fairly recently before the patch (toying with trial mechs, not full LRM builds) and have been experimenting with the C1 this morning - and the firing arc, particularly the descent, was not the same (in my case at least) as pre-patch, specifically the near-vertical descent to target.

This means, obviously, that cover is useless, and even fairly fast mechs will take hits to the upper-most segments. The increased clustering from Artemis is exacerbating this, based on my observations of friendly LRM targets, by ensuring that almost all the missiles hit cockpit, as opposed to most.

As an aside, I did experiment a little in my Raven, and the 'get your lights close' approach does appear to work, if you can keep them out of enemy LOS entierly, or back them up sufficiently that they can duck to cover and power down immediately that they are spotted. I've had a few matches where both sides are at least moderately LRM heavy, and spotting enemy scouts before friendly scouts are flagged made a huge difference. At the moment I'd say the answer (at least for 'moderately' organised groups, like pugs who talk) is to take out enemy scouts with whatever ranged firepower you have, then approach cautiously with whatever else you're using. In at least one match both enemy scouts were wiped by early spotting + LRM fire from non-specialists (i.e. C1s) letting a brawler-heavy team approach the enemy largely unmolested. This was on River, incase it's relevant.





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