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Cicada Or Raven?


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#1 Goliath 3000

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:53 AM

i'm new. actually i played mw2 15 years ago, but consider me new. what mech should i buy first, cicada or raven? what are main differences between those two? raven appears to be light class, but cicada appears to be faster (at least that trial mech which i'm using)-what then means "light" and "medium" class? does that mean that cicada can be fast as raven with more weapons than raven because cicada is medium class?

i'm planning to buy fast scout mech, armed with pulse lasers. is that good idea? i read that pulse lasers are great balance between normal lasers and ballistic weapons

Edited by Goliath 3000, 07 November 2012 - 10:54 AM.


#2 Hex Pallett

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 10:59 AM

Why not Jenner? The mere 1 ton of armor of Raven/Cicada just can't make up with the extra hitbox of a Jenner, not mentioning there's only one particular Raven that can use Jumpjet.


I actually sold an Atlas today just to upgrade my Jenner - Endo, Ferro, DHS, EVERYTHING. The result was ******* glorious.

Edited by Helmstif, 07 November 2012 - 11:01 AM.


#3 Kakamouth

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:05 AM

The Raven is a light scout mech with all the bells and whistles you could want for the job. They have access to TAG, NARC, ECM ( when its added ), and I believe Beagle Active Probe ( also when added ). They have a fairly decent mix of weapon load outs but in until you can save up for a XL engine they wont be as fast as Jenners & Cicadas.

On the other hand the Cicada is an extremely fast medium mech. It can fill the roll of scout or harrasser very well, being heavier with a larger engine out of the box means it can mount more weapons and outrun stock Commando's & Ravens. However you wont have access to ECM or BAP when they're added.

My advice, play around with both a bit before deciding. Get used to how they move more than the weapon load outs and decide which you like better. If running around like a maniac is your thing the Cicada is probably better for you. Personally I have a hard time aiming lasers effectively at 120+ kph ;)

#4 Goliath 3000

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:24 AM

View PostHelmstif, on 07 November 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Why not Jenner? The mere 1 ton of armor of Raven/Cicada just can't make up with the extra hitbox of a Jenner, not mentioning there's only one particular Raven that can use Jumpjet.

so, jenner has less armor, but one more weapon slot?
i didn't find jumpjets useful. for now.

View PostKakamouth, on 07 November 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

The Raven is a light scout mech with all the bells and whistles you could want for the job. They have access to TAG, NARC, ECM ( when its added ), and I believe Beagle Active Probe ( also when added ). They have a fairly decent mix of weapon load outs but in until you can save up for a XL engine they wont be as fast as Jenners & Cicadas.

On the other hand the Cicada is an extremely fast medium mech. It can fill the roll of scout or harrasser very well, being heavier with a larger engine out of the box means it can mount more weapons and outrun stock Commando's & Ravens. However you wont have access to ECM or BAP when they're added.

My advice, play around with both a bit before deciding. Get used to how they move more than the weapon load outs and decide which you like better. If running around like a maniac is your thing the Cicada is probably better for you. Personally I have a hard time aiming lasers effectively at 120+ kph ;)

so, main difference between cicada and raven is in further unlocks that are different because cicada is medium and raven is light class? where can i find list of this items and what they do?

also are pulse lasers better for 100+kph mechs? in guide it says that they are better because you don't need to be pinpoint precise, like in normal lasers where you must aim at same location to do full damage (because damage increased over time for normal lasers).

(i'm asking all this because i'm not sure did i understand well)

Edited by Goliath 3000, 07 November 2012 - 11:31 AM.


#5 Hex Pallett

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:35 AM

Damn my English processing core just flipped. I mean Cicada/Raven has a tiny bit more armor but much easier to hit. My own Jenner is running an XL300 Engine with a speed of 138km/h which is almost impossible to hit.

http://mwomercs.com/...echbay-program/ Check out the Mechbay program. Takes a while to learn but extremely helpful. Half the fun of MWO is creating your ultimate war machine.

#6 CocoaJin

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:35 AM

The Cicada is the mech version of a F14 interceptor: fast, relativly well armored, good damage output and deadly againts lights/scouts, while still being a good strike mech to do slashing attacks against heavier mechs.

The Raven is generally light on speed and damage output(though Ive seen Gauss builds deliver significant burst damage when part of a well coordinated team). But I tend to think the Raven will really show its value when BAP and ECM come online...though its low top speed will be a liability, prompting one to look into XL engines to gain speed and still have tonnage for some defensive oriented weapons.

#7 Goliath 3000

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:12 PM

where i can find more about BAP and ECM and how are they used? they are defensive weapons against missiles? are they used automatically? how many i can carry?

if BAP and ECM are unlocks for raven/light class, what are equipment unlocks for cicida/medium class?

(or just point me where i can read that)

#8 Flying Fish

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:10 PM

i ran a cicada in closed beta. I wasn't personally into it, but im really not a light/fast med sort of guy. i honestly liked the trial raven better. if you're looking for more of a jenner-like strafe/harrassing mech go for the cicada. the raven is more of a scout and bug out if someone starts shooting kind of mech. the one thing i will say about the cicada: DO NOT PUT AN XL ENGINE IN IT!!! its side torso is just way too big of a target, and you'll get totaled almost instantly.

#9 Elder Thorn

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:16 PM

View PostGoliath 3000, on 07 November 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

so, jenner has less armor, but one more weapon slot?
i didn't find jumpjets useful. for now.


so, main difference between cicada and raven is in further unlocks that are different because cicada is medium and raven is light class? where can i find list of this items and what they do?

also are pulse lasers better for 100+kph mechs? in guide it says that they are better because you don't need to be pinpoint precise, like in normal lasers where you must aim at same location to do full damage (because damage increased over time for normal lasers).

(i'm asking all this because i'm not sure did i understand well)


i did not find any clue, telling us that ECM will be for Raven and Atlas DDC only. SO i would not bet on it yet. If you ask me, it SHOULD be like that, but you can't be sure

#10 Goliath 3000

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:25 PM

what kind of weapons are best option for 100+kph mech? ballistic, missile, laser, pulse laser?

also, can light mech (because they are mainly scouts) spot enemy at greater distance than medium mechs?

Edited by Goliath 3000, 07 November 2012 - 01:26 PM.


#11 Golden Sentinel

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:56 PM

View PostGoliath 3000, on 07 November 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

what kind of weapons are best option for 100+kph mech? ballistic, missile, laser, pulse laser?


Personal preference. Popular Jenner builds for example use small lasers, and Streak SRM 2s for added oomph. You'll see some specialized builds like fast snipers (auto cannons or PPC), but in general I see lights broken down into either scout or harasser roles. The former will add stuff like TAG and try to weave in and LRM spot and call targets. The latter is there to zip in and circle targets tearing away their armor and going so fast they can't be easily shot. Ballistics on a fast light though are probably hard to justify with the fact you need to lead your target. But I will admit I've never been brave enough to try it, so maybe I'm wrong.

Quote

also, can light mech (because they are mainly scouts) spot enemy at greater distance than medium mechs?


No.

Edited by Golden Sentinel, 07 November 2012 - 01:57 PM.


#12 Goliath 3000

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:48 AM

i'm thinking now about:

cicada 3m
armed with large pulse laser, er large laser and medium laser.

or raven 3l
with large, medium and medium pulse laser and two missile systems.

but now i'm thinking that i will buy raven, because with this setup cicada will overheat too much.

any advice or opinions?

EDIT: now i see that srm missiles have really small range, so for raven:
raven 4x
with medium, medium pulse laser, and (ultra) ac5

Edited by Goliath 3000, 08 November 2012 - 03:16 AM.


#13 Sovery_Simple

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:14 AM

View PostGoliath 3000, on 08 November 2012 - 02:48 AM, said:

i'm thinking now about:

cicada 3m
armed with large pulse laser, er large laser and medium laser.

or raven 3l
with large, medium and medium pulse laser and two missile systems.

but now i'm thinking that i will buy raven, because with this setup cicada will overheat too much.

any advice or opinions?

EDIT: now i see that srm missiles have really small range, so for raven:
raven 4x
with medium, medium pulse laser, and (ultra) ac5

If you want to try out the cicada, and use lasers, I'd suggest the -2A. Reason being the torso mounted lasers are easier to control (you won't lose track of your arm targetting) and you have nothing in your arms to lose, so they can be armored less if you want more free tonnage. Also holds 6 lasers, and is much cheaper than the 3M (so you can try out cicada's sooner.)

Another thing you need to consider is keeping your speed up, I notice you're going for heavy laser weaponry that your cicada will be entirely unable to cool, at least at any notable speed. For a cicada, speed is life, as you can avoid damage just from enemies missing, being able to get to cover, etc. So I'd suggest going for a 335 XL engine (costly, but it's an end goal, you don't need it right off the bat.) and keeping your laser weaponry at about 6 tons or lower, with supporting HS's (DHS later when you can afford them.)

When considering weaponry, it helps if you go check ohmwreckers charts (I think that's his name), should be in general section I think. It'll show you about how many heat sinks you need to keep a single weapon of the type cool, and it'll let you check the speeds of engines, etc.

If you look at the speed chart and wonder why I told you to select the second highest XL engine, it's because with the top engine, when/if you unlock elite skill "speed tweak" and gain 10% speed, your top engine becomes a waste of .5 tons, because the 335 engine reaches the same speed cap of 148 KPH as the 340 engine does. Just a bit more value for you down the road, as you can then drop a HS and get an AMS or whatever support item suits your fancy at the time ~.^

Edit: people say the UAC5 jams far too often, may want to consider saving a ton and going for a standard AC5, but what is that raven's speed? A slow light is literally just a meal for any faster light pilot.

Edited by Whoops, 08 November 2012 - 07:15 AM.


#14 Goliath 3000

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:07 AM

thank you for detailed post.

today i changed my mind few times. yesterday i wanted cicada. today i wanted raven, then cicada, then raven, and now again cicada (before your post), because there is so many thing to consider.

i want fast mech for scouting that is capable of doing as much damage as possible (i know that "much" actually isn't so much) and with good chances for survival (at least to get to some cover).

raven speed is 81 kph. also, i have 8 000 000 cbills, so i can buy any raven or any cicada.
i think that i'm going to buy 3m because it also has torso mounted lasers, only difference is that it doesn't have 6 energy hardpoints, but 4 and 1 hardpoint is for ballistic weapon, also mounted on torso. because, maybe i'll need that hardpoint later in case of overheating, so i can have 1 weapon that doesn't overheats too much.

what laser weapons combination do you suggest for 6 energy hardpoints in 2a?

(EDIT: now i think i'm going for 2a. 3 medium lasers and 3 medium pulas lasers, xl engine and 16 heatsinks but must go also with ferro fibrous armor and endo steel internal (don't know anythig about it, it is in mechbay program, so probably i can buy this)). still, suggest combination of weapons

Edited by Goliath 3000, 08 November 2012 - 08:35 AM.


#15 Biotox

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:35 AM

As a fast scout mech I would advise against the Raven just because it really isn't that fast. From what I've been hearing once all the electronic warfare items comes out it it will be a better mech but right now most Commandos, Jenners, or Cicadas will chew through a raven with little to no problem just because of their speed alone (Commandos around 120ish kph with Jenners and Cicadas going 140+)

For what you are looking for (A fast scout mech) I would say either a Jenner (6 energy hard points or the 4 energy hard points and 2 missile hard points) or the 2A Cicada. The 2B Cicada works well and with its hard points on its arms you get more range in up and down motion (same with the Jenner as its energy hard points are in its arms.)

In both the mechs most run XLs. The Jenners normally max out at an XL300 and the Cicadas can run up to XL340s (I personally run a 280 in mine and the 121 KPH (after speed tweek) is more then enough for me to run down lights/weave in and out of brawls.)

For weapon configs most that I've seen run either small pulses, medium pulses or small lasers and either Streaks or SRMs (I personally use SRM4s on my Jenner). The pulses give you less of a burn time on your lasers so same damage but deals it out quicker for more weight and heat.

But for damage numbers my Cic puts out 30 points of damage on an Alpha (runs hot so you have to be careful) and my Jenner is at 34ish on an alpha.

#16 Harkonis

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:04 PM

Don't underestimate the value of jumpjets. Play on River City a few times and their potential can be seen. I just wish they would fix them

#17 Goliath 3000

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:38 PM

i bought cicada 2a. works fine. now i mus buy lighter engine to add more weapons. for now i have 2 medium and 1 medium pulse laser

#18 Etarcos

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:15 PM

Just bought a 2a myself and went with a similar strategy. I figured rather quickly that the Cicada is nowhere near being made for taking other mechs, but rather to be a real pain for the enemy. Medium pulses, 130km/h and some dirty fighting (i.e. Playing on the psychological level) works great. Speed is indeed life for a Cicada, and I like it that way hehe.

#19 trycksh0t

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 02:58 AM

Buy a Cicada -2A or -2B.

Replace engine with a 300XL
Upgrade to Endo Steel
Upgrade to DHS and throw in 4 additionals (16 total)
Increase armor across the torso by .5 ton
Throw in 3 Large Lasers.

Poke things and vanish into cover while they try and figure out how they lost almost a ton of armor. Rinse and repeat.

#20 TerebNeerg

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:16 AM

View Posttrycksh0t, on 11 November 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

Buy a Cicada -2A or -2B.

Replace engine with a 300XL
Upgrade to Endo Steel
Upgrade to DHS and throw in 4 additionals (16 total)
Increase armor across the torso by .5 ton
Throw in 3 Large Lasers.

Poke things and vanish into cover while they try and figure out how they lost almost a ton of armor. Rinse and repeat.


I wouldn't run 3 LL, but I support the 300XL. Giving up a little bit of speed gets you a lot of tonnage for serious punch.





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