26 replies to this topic

[Kushko]

Like the title says...Far too many players are just suicide farming or afking to farm cbills instead of actually trying to contribute and are being rewarded for it. On the other hand, players that go above and beyond are rewarded very poorly (cbill reward difference between just participating and pretty much single-handedly winning the game is shockingly low).

I pug alot because i dont really have time to look for groups and wait for them to set up and organize. I just jump in to a game or 2 every time i have 30minutes to spare between my studys. And in most of those games theres 1-2 (alot of time even 4-6) players that contribute absolutely nothing. They afk at the base or they suicide in to the enemy team or they just plainly suck (im not trying to be an elitist jerk, but if you do 30 dmg in a game than you really are a horrible horrible mechwarrior...esp if you are in a heavy or assault mech).

So please, lower the base "participation" rewards and increase the damage dealt/scouting done and other performance rewards.

[Taryys]

I have suggested

get rid of win/loss bonuses
balance out role based rewards, perhaps by mech class
allow trial mechs to modify their mechs with Level 1 tech

[John Norad]

Taryys, on 08 November 2012 - 06:57 AM, said:

I have suggested

get rid of win/loss bonuses
balance out role based rewards, perhaps by mech class
allow trial mechs to modify their mechs with Level 1 tech

That might work.
Yet retaining a small flat reward might not be that bad. To cover some of the basic expenses and keep a bad round from being too frustrating.
The current problem really is the ratio between win and loss reward. It should at least reflect the time invested. So if winning takes 5 times the time compared to just suiciding and losing, but nets merely twice the reward, then the resulting farm mentality is no surprise.

But I agree role based rewards would be very nice. Did you have something particular in mind?
Maybe scouts should at least detect one enemy, assaults should at least tank some enemy damage, heavies should at least deal some damage and mediums.. well dunno, maybe be the most flexible class and get a bit lower rewards, but for different stuff, or for base capping.

[buckX]

Just spitballing, but I think it would be cool if you could actually "bid" the amount of contribution you'd bring. Measuring "contribution" is of course difficult, but I think it would be cool if you could get paid more and more of a base if you bid a certain level of contribution and achieved it, and have less or none if you fail to achieve it. If you fail to achieve it by enough, I would even be okay with a fine (such as for afking). If you are hired to fight for somebody and just hide in a corner, it should come with substantial consequences!

Being able to pick your contribution level would also be a way to handle those expensive to operate mechs with expert pilots that can carry games, but earn less than the afker.

[Beo Vulf]

Just for arguments sake lets just look at spotting bonus. 2k no matter what class mech you are in. Now this is the scouts bread, and butter shouldn't a scout get more for spotting than an Atlas. I don't drive a scout much preferring mediums, heavies, and assaults. Closest thing to a medium scout is the Cicida and that is a blast to pilot. I would say that if the category fits into your mechs primary role than you should get more for it than the mech for whom it is a secondary role.

[Taryys]

That is why I recommended bonuses modified by class that way lights and other scout mechs get more of a bonus from spotting than damage which will help to encourage scout based chassis to scout.

I should edit that to role and not class.

Each mech that a person runs should have a role selector which tells how you have built or are planning on playing this mech, which is also something that could be displayed in the pre match and command screen, and also trigger the way XP bonuses could be weighted.

[Joseph Mallan]

Spotters should also get credit for a kill "assist" They stuck their neck out so I can get target lock. They earned a piece of "my" kill!

[Agent of Change]

Holy crap guys I had an idea!

this has probably been mentioned elsewhere and probably has holes but here's a spitball:

• Remove Win loss Bonuses (no participation credits)
  
• Make every action have a nominal xp/cbill payout (similair to some things already mentioned)
  
• Here's the twist: Have a multiplier be applied to your "earned" payouts based on match results losing say 2x for losing 3x for winning.

so in order to get anything you need to do something... figure a base line for rewards and make the losing multiplier push the 'losing' side reward for the slightly below average player into mild profitability after rewards (there's a grind don't cha know) and determine the winning multiplier to be at least half again that. suicide runs... get nothing, Afkers get nothing, people who try at least get something, people who do really well get paid.

I would remove an explicit kill/damage bonus in this system and leave it at assists, spotting, capping, maybe some situational bonuses like firing on a mech that is firing on a friendly mech. I would also have repairs be roughly the same as they are now with one exception, the bill can never exceed what you earned in that match, you do really well but take a **** load of damage you are going to pay for it all, but it you get leveled and and don't do much you aren't going backwards. This also keeps the trials viable as they are.

thoughts?

[Vactus]

They'd have to modify things by a lot to make your system work Tarrys. Not saying it can't. Just that we'd have to re-do the entire economy.

[Taryys]

True, but something like this needs to be done.

Vactus, on 08 November 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

They'd have to modify things by a lot to make your system work Tarrys. Not saying it can't. Just that we'd have to re-do the entire economy.

Interesting twist on what I was suggesting. Hmmmm...

Agent of Change, on 08 November 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

Holy crap guys I had an idea!
...

[QuantumButler]

Maybe if trial mech grinding wasn't such a horrid slog people wouldn't suicide grind.

When you have to literally kill yourself repeatedly ASAP to start having fun in the game the game designers have made a huge mistake.

But none of you jackasses will admit that suicide grinding is a symptom of a big issue with the new player experience being miserable so why bother trying to convince you lot of this.

[Agent of Change]

Taryys, on 08 November 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

Interesting twist on what I was suggesting. Hmmmm...

I was looking at your suggestions and it occurred to me any major economy change would have to occur changing "as little as possible"

I felt yours might require a bit of serious "ground up" work so it got me thinking of a system that could be changed entirely from 'within the match'. And Voila... my system (theoretically) only changes the pay outs and puts a limit of repair costs, so theoretically if you got the "loss" payout relatively balanced to roughly where it is now (which is where the huge pitfall lies) the economy keeps rollign with a bit more flexibility in potential earnings, and a hard emphasis on participation, teamwork, and Survival.

[Taryys]

Actually, all of us jackasses admit that there is a problem, but people should not be taking advantage of it.
And changes are a coming.

Stop Hazing and Start Raising...

QuantumButler, on 08 November 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

But none of you jackasses will admit that suicide grinding is a symptom of a big issue with the new player experience being miserable so why bother trying to convince you lot of this.

[malibu43]

Kushko, on 08 November 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

...(im not trying to be an elitist jerk, but if you do 30 dmg in a game than you really are a horrible horrible mechwarrior...esp if you are in a medium, heavy, or assault mech)...

I fixed that for you. Lights (and even some mediums, like the Cicada) can be very production and play a large part in a team's success and do hardly any damage.

Otherwise, I mostly agree with the OP and lots of the other suggestions. Right now it's a little too much like T-ball - "Yay! Everybody wins!" Increasing the rewards for performing role specific tasks and then an appropriate multiplier for a win or loss would still reward those that are at least trying and not reward those that are AFK or suiciding.

You'd have to make sure the rewards don't favor damage or kills too much, or you'll end up with no scouts.

[RedHairDave]

i am ok with a change in money making for puggers to curb suicide and what not, but dont change it for groups. in a group, you can do no damage and still be critical to the win. dont change group money making, even make it a group pot, and shared equally, but for puggers, whatever works to curb stupid stuff is fine.

[Agent of Change]

QuantumButler, on 08 November 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

Maybe if trial mech grinding wasn't such a horrid slog people wouldn't suicide grind.

When you have to literally kill yourself repeatedly ASAP to start having fun in the game the game designers have made a huge mistake.

But none of you jackasses will admit that suicide grinding is a symptom of a big issue with the new player experience being miserable so why bother trying to convince you lot of this.

If you want to be heard try not being what you accuse others of.

But I will say that I don't disagree with you that the grind is not a good thing right now, there needs to be a grind but it may be too tough right now), that said people will always AFK or suicide if it is possible (and profitable) for them to do so and to say otherwise is to be blind to the masses of people on the interwebs looking for the easy way out of anything hard.

[QuantumButler]

Taryys, on 08 November 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

Actually, all of us jackasses admit that there is a problem, but people should not be taking advantage of it.
And changes are a coming.

Stop Hazing and Start Raising...

I'm sorry, there's a pretty big percentage of founders who will defend any and all of PGI's decisions no matter how silly said decisions are, I wish everyone agreed the free playe experience is ****, but whenever a topic stating this is made, often with smart suggestions on how to fix it, a bunch of elite and legendary founders tend to come out and call whoever made the topic entitled and calling trial mechs "fine".

[Zerikin]

They need to do it how WoT did it, one of the few things they did well. You got a set amount of credits for winning and the rest came from damage and spotting.

[QuantumButler]

Agent of Change, on 08 November 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

If you want to be heard try not being what you accuse others of.

But I will say that I don't disagree with you that the grind is not a good thing right now, there needs to be a grind but it may be too tough right now), that said people will always AFK or suicide if it is possible (and profitable) for them to do so and to say otherwise is to be blind to the masses of people on the interwebs looking for the easy way out of anything hard.

See?

You tell me not to call people names, but it got your attention didn't it.

On the internet, you catch more flies with Vinegar than honey.

Edited by QuantumButler, 08 November 2012 - 09:04 AM.

[Agent of Change]

QuantumButler, on 08 November 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

See?

You tell me not to call people names, but it got your attention didn't it.

On the internet, you catch more flies with Vinegar than honey.

The problem is a less thick skinned individual would flame and/or report you. Valid points can be made without resorting to insults or vitriol. We all slip into it form time to time, but it's more likely to be be flame bait than the start of a constructive discussion, and if the point isn't to create or add a discussion it probably shouldn't be posted.

A response out of anger will often blind the responder to any valid points you may have made while they focus on the insult.

Edited by Agent of Change, 08 November 2012 - 09:08 AM.