16 replies to this topic

[Cstriker]

Well, I have my 4SP with DHS, Endo, 2 SRM6s w/ Artemis, and 5 Medium lasers. Its pretty much at the end of the line for upgrades...and I feel it underperforms next to the AC20 or AC10 versions of the HBK. Anyone else having similar experiances?

[Flapdrol]

I like my 4SP better than the other hunchies.

I run it with streaks, 260 engine, 4 medium lasers, 1 medium pulse laser in the head, double heatsinks and endosteel, works good to keep jenners off the assault mechs' backs and it's a great brawler.

I got the 260 engine from a catapult, otherwise I'd probably have bought a 250 and get some more streak ammo.

[Hauser]

Cstriker, on 12 November 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

Well, I have my 4SP with DHS, Endo, 2 SRM6s w/ Artemis, and 5 Medium lasers. Its pretty much at the end of the line for upgrades...and I feel it underperforms next to the AC20 or AC10 versions of the HBK. Anyone else having similar experiances?

Depends on what I'm up against.

4SP is great when the other mechs are mostly lights and mediums. I find them easier to hit using the srms and arm mounted lasers. The 4G and 4H rack up way more damage when there are assaults to shoot at. They're much easier to hit with an autocannon.

[Cstriker]

I almost think artemis was not the way to go on the 4SP.

[Vallyn]

Cstriker, on 12 November 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

Well, I have my 4SP with DHS, Endo, 2 SRM6s w/ Artemis, and 5 Medium lasers. Its pretty much at the end of the line for upgrades...and I feel it underperforms next to the AC20 or AC10 versions of the HBK. Anyone else having similar experiances?

Definately depends on the mech's you are fighting and your preferred method of engaging.

I think the SP has a large fan base as it's much harder to take out of action - the G and H variants can be ruined with a good shot or two into the RT would be their argument.

Having said that I do really enjoy Guass sniping with my Founders HBK, but I find the SP is excellent up close and personal once the brawl really gets going. But it requries a lot more speed to be viable than the AC or Guass builds. The SP needs the faster speeds to really utilize it's abilities. Additionally adjusting to the SRM6 lead times can take a bit, especially if you are use to leading Ballistics.

However, I use my 4P over the others right now - the 4G and SP are my secondary builds.

That said I was in a good match where a SP and I (in my 4P) rocked out ~1000 and ~900 damage. So, the SP is definately viable once you get use to it's game play. The SP pilot was superb - reminded me of what the SP can do.

Edited by Vallyn, 12 November 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[Kivin]

Cstriker, on 12 November 2012 - 06:27 AM, said:

Well, I have my 4SP with DHS, Endo, 2 SRM6s w/ Artemis, and 5 Medium lasers. Its pretty much at the end of the line for upgrades...and I feel it underperforms next to the AC20 or AC10 versions of the HBK. Anyone else having similar experiances?

I have never been so sure of anything in my life: The 4SP out performs all of the other Hunchbacks. I've owned them all and each and every one got shipped back to Kali Yama Weapons. They might as well be defective compared to the 4SP.

[Aware]

I love them all.

I feel that the 4SP works better for PUGing. While the 4G or 4H can be extremely effective in a group as DAT AC/20

[Protection]

Drop the 5 Medium Pulse Lasers - that was a terrible idea and cannot possibly be heat efficient (a 1.4 Heat rating is ideal, 1.2 is acceptable, anything close to 1 is a failure - you've wasted tonnage on weapons you cannot use).

Try small lasers - you'll get far more shots off, and with a 260 standard engine you can hit and run and harass like a beast.

[Ranzear]

Protection, on 13 November 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

(a 1.4 Heat rating is ideal, 1.2 is acceptable, anything close to 1 is a failure - you've wasted tonnage on weapons you cannot use).

This is a terrible metric right now as it still miscalculates DHS (lowballs them now) and still assumes you fire every weapon at the same time at every target, which is wasteful piloting more than wasted tonnage. That's why you have weapon groups, plural. In fact I think that's exactly how that stat is measured: Alpha strike heat vs heatsink count.

My -4P with "1.00 heat efficiency" would like a word with you at least... from 1350m with the ER Large pair or 180m with the Seven Pack of Smalls, your choice.

If you're havin' heat problems I feel bad for ya son. I got 99 problems but a heavy finger ain't one.

Edited by Ranzear, 13 November 2012 - 04:51 AM.

[The Librarian]

I agree with Ranzear about the heat on a mech. Ideally you want to be sinking heat at all times. You put weight into heatsinks. If those sinks aren't actively working, that is wasted tonnage.

For instance, I've ben running a CN9-AL, with 12 Double Heaksinks, 2 SRM6s, 3xMediums and 1 Large Laser. (Near Max armor, Standard engine 250, FF and Endo-steel). It has a 54 Damage alpha strike, a Efficiency if 1.01, and I know that I Can alpha 3 times without shutting down and that's if I'm going flat out and just firing all of my weapons as fast as I can. How often have you actually done that, just charged at an enemy firing indiscriminately? You don't (or shouldn't). You time your shots and put the damage where it is needed.

There is of course some give and take, mechs that favor hit and run tactics would probably be better off running hotter in exchange for more damge, as they can disengage more easily if they need to cool off. Conversely a slower mech would need to be more heat efficient since they have no choice but to stand and fight. So saying that there is a flat rate that all mechs should shoot for is really kind of pointless.

Edit: To address the original question of the thread, the SRM builds do tend to favor pugging, as you are more likely to be fighting on your own, or with 1 or 2 allies and being in close enough to hit with the SRMs is less risky and less irritating to your teammates. That being said, taking a longer range weapon in addition to what you already have, might be useful, as it gives you something to do while you close the distance.

Edited by The Librarian, 13 November 2012 - 06:47 AM.

[Wrenchfarm]

Ranzear, on 13 November 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

My -4P with "1.00 heat efficiency" would like a word with you at least... from 1350m with the ER Large pair or 180m with the Seven Pack of Smalls, your choice.

If you're havin' heat problems I feel bad for ya son. I got 99 problems but a heavy finger ain't one.

Interesting! Mind posting your build for the 4P? I'd love to fit ERLLs on mine.

[Aware]

The Librarian, on 13 November 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

Conversely a slower mech would need to be more heat efficient since they have no choice but to stand and fight.

I agree as well.

Does anyone actually run a slow medium that stands still and brawls?

Edited by Aware, 13 November 2012 - 07:06 AM.

[John MatriX82]

To me the 4H offers more flexibility than the 4G, you can carry more configurations than the 4G. I also own a 4P (smlas boat) and a 4SP, configured your way.

I can't understand why don't you like having a medium with 55-damage capability on it. The dual SRM6 + artemis wreck havok against anything, with a rocket concentration tighter than a LBX 10 or simliar to dual standard SRM4s but with a lot of extra damage..

[fo diggity]

I felt the same way until I went for an artemis srm-6 build with a faster engine. Now it's much closer to the AC20 hbk without the hunch that can get torn out and leave me fairly helpless.

[Ranzear]

Wrenchfarm, on 13 November 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

Interesting! Mind posting your build for the 4P? I'd love to fit ERLLs on mine.

Right here: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1404819

This is a mech for surgically precise people like me. I play anti-LRM sniping ears off of Cats until someone rushes me, then they meet the Laserzooka.

[Dirus Nigh]

I like the 4SP allot as well. As with others I put in endo steel and artemis IV. I changed the small laser into a pulse. I do very well in brawls with it. I love having two lasers in the arms. I can peek around corners and fire off only one arm with little exposure to myself. Sure it can run a little hot but I stagger my fire between both arms and my SRMs are only fired when I am sure they will hit.

I have fun with the 4G and H. I use the standard 200 rated engine in them. It's enough maneuverability for me on maps like frozen or river city.

Im liking the 4J as well. I can stay back and play guard for catapults and still dish out supporting fire. when things get close i have 5 med lasers to use on targets. I'm using endo steel and added artemis and case. It helps with my LRM damage some what. But Im thinking of ripping out the artemis and putting in two heat sinks. Just adding two heat sinks made a real difference in how the mech handled in a brawl. That and artemis ammo costs are a little high.

All in all I find the hunchback variants rather versatile. Don't be afraid to experiment with them.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 13 November 2012 - 08:29 PM.

[sycocys]

I went slightly different on the SP - DHS, 4 med, 2 srm6, ams (which is pretty meh but nice for bubbles) xl 250. I think it's at the min. comparable to my ac20 hunch in straight damage although it's slightly harder to lead lights with the missiles for that same smack. On the plus side it's far faster and can core cats in 2 full salvos, and strip the back of an atlas in not much more.

It fairs much better for me as an all around unit because when I get behind someone it's carnage, and I can close and usually have someone cored before they get a few shots off if I have to solo.

To be fair though I did love the heck out of the 4p model too, but it just wasn't as heat efficient and decent pilots only needed to shoot at 1 spot to disarm 90% of your rig.

edit - It may not be coring cats as much as jamming a whole lot of splash on their heads, but either way I've had more than a few 2 salvo kills on em.

Edited by sycocys, 13 November 2012 - 08:54 PM.