3696 replies to this topic

[Budor]

If i wanted to play a faster paced 3rd person mech shooter - theres Hawken, and its better at it. Stick to what makes the franchise strong do not shoot your own foot.

[DivideByZer0]

+1 for "Training Map"

[TheMightyWashburn]

Quxudica, on 14 November 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

It's anecdotal, the pole sample size is to small to be particularly useful (granted it may be more or less useful depending on the actual size of the active community). You can extrapolate a larger idea of the general communities feelings based on it, but the margin for error would be fairly high.

That said, MWO is and Mechwarrior in general have always had Sim elements to them. It's supposed to be a "You are driving the mech" game and not a "You are a giant mech" game. There is a distinct and crucial difference in feel generated by the two different perspective concepts. I am not a huge BT fan, nor a huge MW fan. I have fond memories of Mechwarrior to be sure but I had largely forgotten about the franchise when I was surprised with a closed beta invite. Even then, my memories of playing Mechwarrior all consist of first person cockpit viewed game play and the slow methodical nature of western mechs.

In "closed beta" there were around 3000 people playing at once. Lets say that was 1/10th of the population (which is absurd) So 30000 people. Now lets say that has quadrupled to 120000 people since open beta (absolutely ******** wrong). The poll is of 1000 forum goers. So even if it was 1/120 players responding.. that is still WAYYYYYYYY more percentage than any real world poll. However, it is massively biased as it is only the most dedicated players who go on the forums everyday. Oh, look at that. A poll of their core fan base. Whatever would they care about that for?

[Wakdjunkaga]

I'm assuming that their forward 3rd person view will be softlocked to the direction their torso is facing, but instead of viewing out of their pilot's eyes they'll be roughly 25m behind and 10m above their mech to watch it move... much more than that is hugely exploitable for seeing things should shouldn't be able to.

Freelook, zoom, Heat/night vision- should only be available from inside the mech.

If piloting is the actual issue they claim it is, they should be able to do that without an obstacle free 'freelook'. Hard-lock 3PV to torso direction if implemented at all. I'd prefer it wasn't added at all, but if you must, make it lesser not greater than cockpit view.

[TruePoindexter]

gregsolidus, on 14 November 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

poptarting.

MW4 was the only case where this was broken. I think we'll all agree that MW4 multiplayer was incredibly flawed. Nearly everyone had the same damn assault mech using the same weapons.

[KharnZor]

Quxudica, on 14 November 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

MWO is and Mechwarrior in general have always had Sim elements to them. It's supposed to be a "You are driving the mech" game and not a "You are a giant mech" game.

This sums up my feelings in a nutshell.

[Taryys]

I posted my ideas more fully here: How To Reduce The Grind And Create A Great New User Experience

[Kavoh]

This 3rd person idea is ridiculous. As many others have stated, hiding behind terrain, even IF you cannot lock them, you will be able to relay all positions without any fear of being targeted or seen yourself. This would completely ruin the tactical idea behind mechwarrior, and this would become MechAssault Online. If this was built from the ground up to BE another mechassault, I could understand, but this is essentially mechwarrior 5's reincarnation. THIS GAME is supposed to be a tactical battlemech simulation. While I feel it has lost a lot of mechwarrior feel since MW4, I still see it and experience it as a mechwarrior simulator in its current form. (Yes I know there was 3rd person in MW4, but that game has NOTHING on MWO in terms of cover to abuse it)

As it is RIGHT NOW, it has the possibility of being a really competitive online game. However, if you implement 3rd person, it would be a handicap to stay in 1st person so much so that no one wanting to play to the max would use it. This isn't a hardcore vs casual kind of thing, because all of that is garbage when it comes to mechwarrior. But that doesn't change the fact that one has a DISTINCT advantage over the other.

Please stop all this nonsense and unneeded changing.

[von Pilsner]

gregsolidus, on 14 November 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

poptarting.

Ya, I prefer 1st person, but in MW4 I had to use 3rd person for it's increased situational awareness (and exploiting looking over hills).

I would rather not be forced to play in 3rd person to stay competitive.

[Davers]

Originally it was stated there would be no 3rd person view because of exploits that led to 'poptarting' and seeing around corners. What has changed?

I would not be happy with a 3rd person view.

[Splitpin]

Please please please don't dumb the game down.

I and all of my merc unit friends who played MW4 in 3rd person have long since been converted to 1st person. Yes when we first started in MWO we thought it was 'missing', now wouldn't go back for quids. PGI, you had good reasons for saying NO for so long, please stick to your guns.

This game is a challenge, especially at the start and I guess you are seeing that, in many many players who d'load the game play a drop or two and never return, and thats scary. Agreed, yes it is for me too. Dumbing the game down in this and/or many other ways is not the answer. Putting time and thought into tutorial and skill raising scenarios is the answer, and I think this community has been telling you that for some time. Removing the challenge from the game may make it more approachable to begin with, but from the start you set out to make something that was so much more than just another arcade game, was that so wrong - 60,000 founders didn't think so. Your vision was clearly stated then and those that put up the money then agreed, please stick to your guns.

Yes there is a obvious compromise, just allow 3rd person in early play, the solo 'beginner' battles or such, but move them on before being able to partake in the wider game. My objection would be I rather see the development resources put into that wider game first, thats the carrot that in fact got most of us here thats still missing.

I do understand and it's been ponted out to me many times that PGI is after a wider audience than old mechwarriors (TT,MW2,3,4 founders etc) and that it's the F2P players that will be the core of the game and possibly the lack of 3rd person is turning many of them away. Agreed we need new players, but put the resources into bringing them up to speed into a game that is a challenge, make it an achievement they can value, don't just drop the bar such that any 5 year old can play instantly --- you'll only end up with 5 year olds then, and that scares me more.

[Ghost_19Hz]

I don't want this, it ruins the immersion.

Fragmenting the player base further is also a bad decision. Multiple game modes now fragmented into more parts for a less immersive pov is not something i can support. There is more than enough support on the HUD for movement and origin of attack.

IF ever implemented it should be on a noobie training mission only.

[arkani]

Thrasymachus, on 14 November 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Hi, I am one of those people who haven't paid a cent for this game yet. The simple reason is: I dont trust you.

You got a 5 million dollar investment from your playerbase; whom you know are die hard fans. And after you take their money, you turn around and ask:

"3rd Person OK right?"

Actions like that make seriously wonder how out of touch your managment is. And it makes me scared to give you money.

I think the main problem with games is the urge to grab more people; its similiar to those insecure friend hoarders on facebook. You have a loyal userbase; this is the fundamental key to longevity. Dont alienate them. Dont betray their trust. Finish what you promise.

Until today i regreted not having bought the founders package. Today i am glad i didnt.

[MouseNo4]

To be quite honest, it does not bother me all that much. If it appears in game, i wont be butt!hurt about it, nor will i rejoice.

[CobraFive]

I think its fine. I don't see what the fuss is about.

Short of "I don't like people who don't like first person view" there really isn't much of an argument against it. "You have to play the game the way *I* like to play it" isn't really a good way to go about games.

But then again if this community couldn't cry about how old games are so much cooler and everyone just loves call of duty and nothing else and that's so terrible, I'm not sure the game could sustain itself!

[Viper69]

Davers, on 14 November 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

What has changed?

New people pulling the strings at PGI is what I am guessing.

[Ransack]

Clear and concise


Do not want.

MWO was described as a first person mech simulator set in the Battletech Universe. People asked frequently about third person view during closed beta and were told it's not gonna happen. I smiled and plunked down $120. Had that been said, I would not have spent the money. If implemented, I would want my money back (I would consider it a breach of contract). But seeing as how you are in "open release" that's not feasible is it? Could that be why this was not mentioned beyond the "maybe" stage for closed beta?

I am seriously disturbed by the announcement. You guys have lost some credibility in my eyes.

[F lan Ker]

S!

I voted NO for 3rd person view. What we have now as dying animation or knocked over is more than enough. The Mech cockpits have screens in them so put a rear view camera on them, data readouts and whatnot. This way you could really utilize the potential of these really nice cockpits we have without going arcadeish.

What the 3rd person gives is a view you normally would not have while piloting a massive Mech or if put into RL context, a tank or another AFV or aeroplanes. Your situational awareness is based on the sensory feedback from the instumentation, data links and sensors(radar, FLIR, etc.) and from what you see and gather with Eyeball Mk.I This all can be presented in the Mech cockpit adding more to the simulator aspect of the game.

How to implement cockpit utilisation can be a tough task, as it has to be like a simulator but not too distracting from actual gameplay. Playability vs realism balance some might say. This could partially be overcome by implementing TrackIR or similar support so people could actually look around the cockpits to see the instruments and screens that are in there now. But again how would this affect mouse/kb players is another matter. Myself as a full HOTAS/pedal user it would be no problem. Just snap TrackIR on my headset and off I go, all the buttons and controls can be mapped to my HOTAS. Workable solution for KB/mouse users would be the current free look tweaked a bit.

A 3rd person view would give an opportunity to cheat in a way or another. When someone is given the means being able to utilize a loophole, he/she will. Sure this can be a minority doing so, but spoils the game for the majority of gamers. MWO was advertised as a Mech simulation and 3rd person view is not simulation but arcade. Wasting resources on something like this is pointless when a series of well made tutorials and/or a training area would do the same thing more effectively without ruining the simulator aspect of this product.

Just my thoughts.

[Ramseti]

AA Yeti, on 14 November 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

Does the fact that you have to quote and like your own posts show you anything? Regardless of the (extremely important) fact that it gives players who use it an edge, and regardless of the fact that you have to opt out of it instead of opt in, it will split the community. I will never want to play against someone who's using this, so what will that do to CW? And if 3rd person is disabled for CW, then what's the freakin point of putting it in? People will get used to 3rd person, which means they won't play CW.

Edited by Ramseti, 14 November 2012 - 12:42 PM.

[Liquidx]

SO.. perhaps after PGI fails to develop a mechwarrior game, a game that is probably among the easiest to make successful due to decades worth of fans by continually bastardizing the product and alienating not only the fans of previous mechwarrior and battletech titles, but also other prospective gamers with their frequent waffling on core issues... Maybe they could see it in their hearts, just before the company goes bankrupt, to release the game and all of its assets to the open source community. At least then one company's bumblings won't relegate us to another decade between attempts at creating such a game.

Seriously PGI.. get your **** together.