3696 replies to this topic

[Noth]

While I see where they are coming from, I simply believe there are better ways to teach a player how to play. From more tutorial videos to open training maps with the computer that walks you through the actions.

[AA Yeti]

AA Yeti, on 14 November 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

[Topelado]

TPV is a terrible idea.

A well done tutorial can solve said issues (and that could have a TPV).


I wouldn't play the game against people using TPV.

[DeathofSelf]

TruePoindexter, on 14 November 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Just for fun here's a rough walkthrough of MWO controls to see how "simple" they are.

Ok so first off your mouse controls your upper body. The circle gun sight is where your arms are pointing and the cross hair is where your torso is pointing. Left click fires your current weapon group selected with the left and right arrows. Middle mouse zooms your view and right mouse fires group 2. You can set weapon groups with the arrow keys and right control. Toggle chain fire with backspace.

I'm going to stop there. You know how complex weapons are in other games? Point and shoot. Don't for a second think that MWO is no more complicated than most games. It is worlds more complex. That's why we love it. However games are not made for free and some concessions must be made to ensure that new players have a chance. Chromehounds is a great example of what happens when a game caters to only the hardcore. New players come in, get slaughtered, and never come back.

At first I thought you were advocating how the controls were not that hard, then I got to your second paragraph. Then I laughed, and cried a little. Really? Is it that hard to have and understand weapon groups? And a torso that can twist independently from your legs? Is it that hard to understand the difference between the 2 reticles? It seriously blows my mind that any of this is too complicated for people.... "Oh my god, you mean I have to think about what I'm doing? Screw that, this game is too hard"

[themoob]

Adding my voice to the "please god no" majority.

As MOST there could be a 3rd person view before a match starts (to check our your sexy paintjob) and after you die.

[Viper217]

Third-person view would be a terrible idea, far too much exploiting. Also it breaks immersion of piloting a mech.

[Zylo]

Well, I guess we're starting to see evidence of the players who can't seem to grasp the concepts of gameplay in forced 1st person view...

At least supporters of the current 1st person locked view will know who to blame if PGI changes this game from it's original target group of players to the group of players who demand that every game be made easy.

Edited by Zylo, 14 November 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[River McCain]

Let me first say I am opposed to 3rd person in any form, it takes away from the Mech Pilot feeling and makes it more like a remote control robot jockey game. This is not what most of us want to happen, the game would regress to the arcade feel that would cause many Pilots to leave.

If the publisher insists on placing a 3rd person perspective into the game, it should be a non combat camera, as in if you are viewing from 3rd person you do not have access to reticle or weapons controls. You can still walk and twist but you cannot shoot, and there should be a 2 or 3 second delay switching views.

I personnaly do not understand why some people have trouble with the whole torso leg relationship, it seems very natural to me (former RL tanker), as stated in many posts above, give them a practice area where they can learn to be a Mech Pilot in 1st person, we would all win here, new Pilots would not seem so new when they drop for combat.

Do not "dumb down" the game for the people that refuse to learn.

Happy Hula Hunting.

Edit: Forgot to mention Center torso to legs is the wrong thing to have, it needs to be center legs to torso, this would help many people.

Edited by River McCain, 14 November 2012 - 12:47 PM.

[CobraFive]

Budor, on 14 November 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

If i wanted to play a faster paced 3rd person mech shooter - theres Hawken, and its better at it. Stick to what makes the franchise strong do not shoot your own foot.

Every previous mechwarrior game has had 3rd person view... and yet adding it in is to reject mechwarrior's heritage?

[Bguk]

AA Yeti, on 14 November 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

This one is for you!! ( I just won't like my own comment though )

Bguk, on 14 November 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

Option like this separates the community over something that was stated when panhandling for money that it would not be in the game. Option or not it should not be in this game. I supported this game over another due to the fact the game would be more sim like and not more FPS like. If that's the direction they're going then I can see what direction I'll go.

[Dukarriope]

As it is, back when I was in earlier closed beta, the first time I suffered a mech collision was an extremely jarring experience.

For two reasons. One foremost being because I didn't expect a machine this big and heavy to fall over that way. Second being that it abruptly yanked me out of first person.
I'm a big fan of immersion. And I'm extremely big fan of very polished attention to detail. Something that PGI appears to be moving away from, as part of the 'more more more'...

[Viper69]

CobraFive, on 14 November 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

I think its fine. I don't see what the fuss is about.

Short of "I don't like people who don't like first person view" there really isn't much of an argument against it. "You have to play the game the way *I* like to play it" isn't really a good way to go about games.

But then again if this community couldn't cry about how old games are so much cooler and everyone just loves call of duty and nothing else and that's so terrible, I'm not sure the game could sustain itself!

Have you played the old mechwarrior games at all? If you did you would know why its a bad idea. The problem is a person driving in 3rd person mode has a wider field of view than someone not using it. Also being able to elevate yourself above combat and look over hills and around corners.



Now my addendum would be if it was only in trial mechs and in matches where only trial mechs fought on a training ground area where no money or XP were earned.

The problem is its going to foster a sense of needing that ability to function instead of a situational awareness to support the growth of.

[Xantha]

TheMightyWashburn, on 14 November 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

However, it is massively biased as it is only the most dedicated players who go on the forums everyday. Oh, look at that. A poll of their core fan base. Whatever would they care about that for?

Not to mention the dedicated are the ones who are willing to shell out $120+ on a game... I guess it's better to cater to those that might spend $5 a year on something.

[Taizan]

So I just listened to the NGNG podcast.
All they are talking about on is about implementing 3rd person for new users in training/tutorials to get them used to the torso twisting.

Quote

"The only way to show new users what's going on is showing it in 3rd person."

Quote

"People get so worked up [...] first and foremost we are totally cognoscente of what the core fanbase wants."

Quote

"If for the first few hours someone gets to use a different camera angle that teaches them their mech functions and then when they want to pop into first person when they want to start experiencing the more advanced aspects of the game [...] they actual then start using first person only"

Quote

"Think of it more like a training camera, its like here is how we teach players how to play the game"

Quote

"We are also be very cognoscente to make sure you can't just use the camera to anadvantage"

So if it remains like this and helps bringing in new players, its fine with me.

[LordBraxton]

Would ask for refund and post angry things about PGI all over the internet...

I love you guys really, you took a risk with a beloved franchise of ours and put your careers where your mouth is.

Its been really bumpy, especially lately but some of us still have faith in you.

You wanna ruin it all for good? Add 3rd person.

[malibu43]

Kauhava, on 14 November 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

Not really. Look at the poll results. Oh my, 90% of people agree with him.

90% of uber MW fans that like this game enough to spend a lot of time on the forums. The average video game player probably doesn't ever visit a forum, let alone post in silly poll threads. So there's no way one can assume this poll represents the opinion of their actual target market. There aren't enough MWO forum members to support a game like this.

miscreant, on 14 November 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

I think the poll shows overwhelming support for NO. Russ might be the pres., but he's not a true Mechwarrior / BT purist, and perhaps doesn't understand the meaning of a SIMULATION EXPERIENCE. I'd like the ability to pull up a monitor on my screen that shows BEHIND ME, if the console kiddies get their 3rd person view!

He probably does understand the meaning of a SIMULATION EXPERIENCE. What he probably also understands is that "simulators" are no longer the gold mine they were in the 90's. There's a reason why stores aren't filled with Jane's flight simulators anymore. There's a reason M$ dropped the Flight Simulator line. They no longer bring in the money required to cover their development. I love flight simulators (and mech simulators) as much as the next guy, but I recognize the fact that there aren't enough of us out there to carry and support a complete video game.

Call them impatient, Justin Beibger listening, COD playing, noob tweenagers if you want. But they are a large portion of customers and they need to like the game too.

Edited by malibu43, 14 November 2012 - 12:47 PM.

[LogicSol]

From the Pod Cast Russ implied that 3rd person was coming to help new players figure out how their mechs work.

That the biggest problem new players had was figureing out the relationship between their torso and their legs.

If that is the case, restrict 3rd person view to trial mechs.
This way new players can have an additional view to help them along, while keeping 3rd person from becoming a requirement in normal play and preventing a splitting of the player base.

3rd person should also be HUDless, maybe with the radar view so they can see the relation between the minimap indicators and their legs.

Edited by LogicSol, 14 November 2012 - 01:26 PM.

[Arthamel]

Agreed with the most idea every posts above. It's the most terrible idea ever. Ever.

[Hellicon]

Do not want .. of all the things they could be working on. I just started a week ago. Wasn't an easy start. I don't think I could recommend it to friends unless they have a lot of patience. Pub stomping is terrible, now I only play in groups. Third person view is not the answer. When I start a new game I am not going to go out and find a team to play on. All I wanted was a tutorial map or possibly a learning mission that I could drop into, mess around, and map some keys, sort out my joystick etc. Even better would be to play only against new people intially. If you want to see how pretty your mech looks in combat get them to implement a battle recorder.

Edited by Hellicon, 14 November 2012 - 12:55 PM.

[Cappy]

Vulix, on 14 November 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

I already beat it



3rd person MWO would cater to the same playerbase as CS people. I guess COD is the new CS though

WHAT? How? There is literally nothing to suggest that to be true and CoD has never been any thing at all like counter strike. Seriously, you guys need to play these games before you bandy them about as some kind pejorative. There's nothing wrong with CoD. There's nothing wrong with CS. They are only similar in so far as that they are both shooters and that's where the similarities end.

What about third person would attract a CS player? Please tell me how this is somehow catering to a crowd from a completely different game that doesn't even have this as an option in the first place. it's a completely asinine point. CoD had it, yes, in MW2 (I think) and nobody played it.

Whereas third person in Mechwarrior games already has a precedent... as in... it was in every single mechwarrior game preceding this one. So how is this going the route of CoD and CS when first of all, TPV was NEVER popular in CoD and CS has NEVER had this as an OPTION? Yes, clearly they are catering to players from these, completely separate games, with almost zero precedence in that display option and has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that every single mechwarrior game had this feature, predating both CS and CoD many years. MW2 came out in 1995 for christ sakes. CS wasn't out until, like '00 '01. CoD even later. Completely ridiculous arguments with absolutely no basis in reality.

lol... I mean honestly. You people have no idea what you're talking about or what you're afraid of.