3696 replies to this topic

[Boswelli]

I don't know what all of the hardcore player here have against 3rd person view. It's just one other kind of option, you are not forced to use it, and PGI has the chance to reach many more gamers out there, e.g. all of the consoleros. From economy point it's just a logical move, not to mention the 360° perspective possibility - better than any radar.

Look at WoT, same system, turret = torso, chassis = legs, everything works fine with 3rd PV, and if you want to aim exactly, you can zoom into 1st PV. For all who likes simulation the game is also playable without using the external view, and the same will be with MWO too!

But it's as always, the masses are against everything what's different and new....Just try it and then complain about ;-)

[Norris J Packard]

Almost a thousand people said no.

That's hilarious.

[Kibble]

I've probably posted on this forum but to lazy to look....

NO 3rd person...please.

[Lyoto Machida]

No...ruins immersion. I don't need to say anything else that hasn't already been said.

[ArmyOfWon]

1) Divides the player base more than it can sustain. I've had more than a few "cannot find matches" as it is. Dividing the community more could lead to more frequent matches not found, leading to future players leaving the game and not coming back.

2) Completely destroys the "Mech-sim." With a 3rd person view, you can see more than just "the relation of your torso to the legs" (is this even really a problem??) You'll be able to see around corners, people flanking, jenners behind your Atlas, etc ,etc.

That said, I would not mind (in fact I would actually support) a third person free-camera spectator mode.

[F lan Ker]

S!

So a separate Training Area with 3rd person would be acceptable, but when you jump into combat then cockpit view all the way. No exceptions.

Edited by F lan Ker, 14 November 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Budor]

CobraFive, on 14 November 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Every previous mechwarrior game has had 3rd person view... and yet adding it in is to reject mechwarrior's heritage?

If MWO doesnt differentiate itself from the competition, and being more tactical and sim-like is the key imho, it will not be as successfull as it should.

Its pretty obvious that Hawken is a mighty competitor, making your core fanbase unhappy just because you think itll draw in new blood is plain stupid.

[Clay Pigeon]

If third person is implemented, everyone will run it because of its situational awareness advantages. The immersion that the devs have strived for will be gone, and poptarting will make a comeback.

A better option to help new players unfamiliar with piloting giant robots would be some sort of tutorial like in mektek mw4. Teach them, briefly how to navigate and use their weapons. You don't need to hire any voice actors for this, Russ can be the voice talent for the instructor.

[Keisuke Nagisa]

I also do not think its a good idea. However something in the realm of realism may be appropriate. Something like mounted cameras you can switch to like a shoulder camera or rear facing cameras.

[Daimonos]

As many have said, a tutorial and training ground / test firing range would go a long way to improving the new player experience.

Third person view during a managed tutorial only would be... ok. Splitting the player base is not ok. Allowing third person into any kind of 'live combat mode' will result in third person support making its way into Community Warfare. Whatever your intentions starting out, that is where this will inevitably end. That is why you are hearing a resounding, "No, not at all or under any circumstances." Because even just a little bit of third person - even in a tutorial - is the thin end of the wedge, and third person in live combat, is the beginning of the end.

If the money people are saying, Third Person or Game Over then of course you must do it. Please keep it out of live combat for as long as possible. Thank you.

[Cataphract]

Yeah definite no on 3rd person. The only time I think 3rd person would be a good thing is in a tutorial and even then you'd give the expectation of it in normal matches. I can't believe this is even being considered after it was said that in no way would third person make an appearance because of the impact it would have on the immersion of the game. I guarantee 3rd person would be nothing but abusive and ruin what so far is making this possibly the best MW game yet. Either way I doubt the OFFICIAL forums will ever be looked at as much as Twitter Facebook and Kotaku and regardless of how much we go against it here it wont matter in the end. Everyone on Facebook Twitter and Kotaku will just win over the 3rd person vote so get ready to use an abusive 3rd person camera cause I think its coming regardless of what we say here.

[RoboticRooster]

I have no interest in 3rd person view. It would be an unfair advantage over players that use 1st person, and would completely change the dynamic of the game. (For the worse.)

[Inkarnus]

sorry but its a

TRAAAPPP!

uh btw got today my Mad dog and Mad cat on top with a larp ANIHILATOR :DDDD

Edited by Inkarnus, 14 November 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[John Norad]

First off I hope you devs will ignore anything from those too block-headed to read and understand the OP.
I mean, it were just 5 lines ffs!

miSs, on 14 November 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

(..)
We would like to have your feedback only, if you want to share your thoughts and discuss about this, please use this thread.

Now, on topic, I'll pretty much copy/paste out of the other thread:

I do understand the concern and the aim to make the game more accessible.
But I think you're going the wrong route with this.
If new players have problems with the controls, you should help them learning them, not change the controls.
The controls are not overly complicated. But they can be irritating at first, so they should be explained. I also needed a bit of time to get accustomed and not run into things all the time, but with a bit of practice everybody should be able to master it.

However, practice needs time.
So you have to keep new players entertained long enough for them to take that time.
And here's exactly where all the little flaws in the current game come into play.
The game has to be fun to keep new players playing and willing to invest the time required to become a good pilot.

That's why I urge you to invest your dev time in improvements instead of workarounds. Make the game as much fun as possible and get rid of show-stoppers or possible frustration.

Regarding controls
- Implement a proper tutorial
- Implement a practice map for players to try things out (moving targets, stationary targets, LRMs/cover)
- If at all, activate 3rd person view only at the beginning of the tutorial to give an overview

Regarding show-stoppers and frustration
Right now there are several things preventing new players from having fun. From the top of my head these are especially:

- Getting roflstomped - > implement better matchmaking and a tutorial asap
- No real progress early on -> Give new players something to play with. Reward a cheap mech for the tutorial or give a one-time price reduction for the first mech. Basically anything..
- An awfully unintuitive UI (not exaggerating) -> Streamline the UI, reduce mouse movement, add tooltips and possibly an online-help
- Last but not least game instabilities and poor performance

It might also help to take a long hard look at all the sounds and special effects ingame.
Some are really lacking and keep the game from being a much more intense experience.
Sounds (and music) are very important for any game and of course for the whole immersion thing, so firing a weapon in a combat simulation should be satisfying, maybe even a bit awe-inspiring. Yet some weapons are just not fun to use. The Gauss could have a bit more 'Ooomph' (but it's general overpoweredness make up for it). Autocannons are totally lacking in the sound department and need a more menacing, thundering sound. How can it be that the AC2 is the only AC that sounds dangerous? Lasers are also a little bland. I know some people who stated them to be unsatisfying and boring. PPCs on the other hand are quite ok. These are just some hints in that direction. Of course there's a lot more.

Edited by John Norad, 14 November 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[Adridos]

Ozzalin, on 14 November 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

On a typical Sunday afternoon...

Actually, considering the age of Battletech community and players I've met here, the grandma should be the one telling her CoD-ific casual next-gen nephew how to pilot mechs.

[Soy]

Speaking as someone who spent a lot of time in a walker in Battlefield 2142, I must say that the different cameras you could utilize at your discretion for heightening your awareness of your immediate surroundings was simply a very powerful tool. Used properly a player could raise their situational awareness astronomically.

Personally I find myself longing for a 3rd person camera or at least at least a back-cam. People forget that it can be utilized not only for raising this situational awareness and for gaining angles on enemies, but also to simply orient yourself to your given physical position [in relation to cover, etc].

I can also see how a 3rd person view might detract from the overall 'feel' of this game, however.

I appreciate that the devs are taking the time to gain feedback of this concept over the forums and gladly throw my hat into the ring of supporting a 3rd person view camera.

Or even a back camera. We're talking about mini van technology here, people - not beyond the capabilities of an advanced star searching civilization in the year 3050...

Edited by Soy, 14 November 2012 - 12:59 PM.

[Squid von Torgar]

Ok guys, firstly let me thank you for creating this thread. I sincerely hope that PGI reads the comments on here and takes note.

My POV is this.

3rd Person is not just a controversial idea, it has the capacity to alienate the entire player base and ruin this game.

Here is why.

One of your original design pillars was to provied a immersive experiance and allow the player to feel that they are piloting a mech. 3rd person removes that sense of being inside a mech, and reduces it to that of any other generic 3rd person shooter.

Furthermore by using 3rd person, you give the player an artifical view point. Now they have a raised point of view that allows them to see over cover, around corners and even behind them. This awards the player a advantage over the 1st person player.

If the intention is to use 3rd person to help train new players this is fundamentally flawed. At some point the player will still have to make the transition to 1st person. However as they have up till now being relying on 3rd person this will be even more counter intuitive. If a player starts the game and can access 3rd person they will consider this the norm, and expect to be able to do so in the full game. You will get new players asking why 3rd person was removed and they will also demand that it is made accessible to them throughout the game

If you really want to help out new players, then create an interactive tutorial, with voice over that shows them how the mech works and makes them practice using torso twisting. Give them a token award, like some C-Bills, or XP, even an steam like acheivement. But make sure they have to complete it to access the rest of the game.

If the idea is to make 3rd person an option, this again is a bad idea. You have then split your community into two camps. Games like MWO thrive on providing all players with an even playing field.

How would community warfare work if you have two universes, one where 3rd person was allowed and the other where it wasn't. Trust me any player that wants to use 1st person only, will be very upset if they perceive a 3rd person player to have an advantage. This again will cause a fraction in the community. Given the above there is no need to do this.

So I ask you to reconsider. Please listen to us your hardcore fans, the vast majority (90%) at the last look at the polls do not want 3rd person in this game. Its too big of a risk, for too little a gain.

[Cappy]

Budor, on 14 November 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

If MWO doesnt differentiate itself from the competition, and being more tactical and sim-like is the key imho, it will not be as successfull as it should.

And you base this asinine assumption on what, exactly?

[von Pilsner]

Boswelli, on 14 November 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

I don't know what all of the hardcore player here have against 3rd person view. It's just one other kind of option, you are not forced to use it, and PGI has the chance to reach many more gamers out there, e.g. all of the consoleros. From economy point it's just a logical move, not to mention the 360° perspective possibility - better than any radar.

And we see this as a problem, not a neat feature...

Boswelli, on 14 November 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

Look at WoT, same system, turret = torso, chassis = legs, everything works fine with 3rd PV, and if you want to aim exactly, you can zoom into 1st PV. For all who likes simulation the game is also playable without using the external view, and the same will be with MWO too!

But it's as always, the masses are against everything what's different and new....Just try it and then complain about ;-)

We tried it in previous Mechwarrior games, did you play MW4 competitively?

[Tauman]

Please don't.