3696 replies to this topic

[Kdogg788]

This is one of the more overwhelmingly lopsided polls ever. Hopefully they listen to this one. A 3rd person view should never be implemented and should NEVER take precedence over getting more mechs, maps, game modes, and of course CW into the game!

-k

[malibu43]

How about this -

If they implement 3rd person view and the game is a complete failure, we all stop playing, and development is canceled, then everyone who's complaining about 3rd person can start an "I told you so" thread and tell eveyone how they were right and PGI was wrong. All of us who don't see 3rd person as a big deal will post in the thread that we were wrong and are idiots.

But, if they implement 3rd person view (and don't allow it to become an advantage, which they've acknowledged they plan on doing), the game doesn't cause the universe to implode, and we all keep playing, then everyone freaking out about 3rd person view has to post that they freaked out and were wrong, and the rest of us get to say I told you so.

Deal?

[Ilfi]

You guys are great. "3rd Person will make this game like Hawken/CoD/CS"? Not a single one of those games has 3rd Person as a primary perspective. They're all first-person.

I'll use 3PV if it comes, but I've always preferred FFP servers.

[SendMyRegards]

TruePoindexter, on 14 November 2012 - 12:31 PM, said:

Just for fun here's a rough walkthrough of MWO controls to see how "simple" they are.

Ok so first off your mouse controls your upper body. The circle gun sight is where your arms are pointing and the cross hair is where your torso is pointing. Left click fires your current weapon group selected with the left and right arrows. Middle mouse zooms your view and right mouse fires group 2. You can set weapon groups with the arrow keys and right control. Toggle chain fire with backspace.

I'm going to stop there. You know how complex weapons are in other games? Point and shoot. Don't for a second think that MWO is no more complicated than most games. It is worlds more complex. That's why we love it. However games are not made for free and some concessions must be made to ensure that new players have a chance. Chromehounds is a great example of what happens when a game caters to only the hardcore. New players come in, get slaughtered, and never come back.

Whoa now, this is not "Worlds more complex." We're talking the difference between a game where you look, move, and shoot all in the same direction and MWO introduces a definitely not new concept in "you can aim in a direction different than you are looking." Does this concept seriously confuse people? You bring up a good point though, the arms is definitely something that you have to get used to but as I originally said: Getting used to the arms is not best handled by 3rd person, it is better handled by tutorials and a robust newbie friendly introduction.

You see, none of this is really explained by PGI in the game environment. You have to go to a website and watch videos to have it explained to you. But people don't want to do that, they hop into the game like most people and go "damn this is confusing and hard." If instead there was a tutorial leel where you could go and learn and have BB explain **** to you it would be different. So I understand their concerns, but that doesn't mean the controls are difficult by any stretch of the imagination.

So stop blowing the controls out of proportion like operating a mech with a mouse and keyboard is the gaming equivalent of open heart surgery.

[Renthrak]

The only place I can see for a 3rd person view is in a tutorial section. New players get the help of an exterior view while they learn, which is the point of having it if I understand the reasoning. Once they 'graduate' to the regular game, there should be no need for an alternate view.

This is the only implementation that I would support.

[Zylo]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet but don't you guys think it's possible that a 3rd person view would cause exactly the same manuvering problems for new players?

New player: "Something's wrong with this game, I'm looking over the shoulder of my mech and trying to go forward but I'm moving to the side instead!"

[Cannibal713]

After hearing that the devs were seriously working on 3rd person POV, I thought I would put my two cents in. I realize that 3rd person POV would allow people new to MW games to grasp the picture faster and equate into more money for the company. I dont mean that to disparage this endeavor, it is a business and must make money. In previous Mechwarrior games I liked the 3rd person POV for certain purposes. I find 3rd person is better for move complex piloting tasks; like navigating quickly through a city. But third person POV should not have advantages you would not have in 1st person, and from what I have heard the devs are thinking the exact same thing. As long as it can be switched back and forth, and it does not allow unfair advantage vs users of other POVs it can only improve the game and increase the popularity/marketability of their product.

[Ghost_19Hz]

JAFO, on 14 November 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Just Say "NO" to 3rd Person

This. And

Vapor Trail, on 14 November 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

If the whiny playerbase needs a 3rd person view to control their mech, then give them an optional window that shows their mech model from 3rd person.

And that's ALL it shows,

This. And just because it was in previous mechwarrior games doesn't mean anything to me, i played them all. Also, acting as if you can sit there and admire your mech in third person while i shoot you right out of your cockpit to give a real 3rd person view is what you are going to be doing, you are mistaken about the oohing and ahhing, or just bad, but i will be coring you. You see, you should be focusing on your reticle, your map, your opponents armor readout, number of opponents and positions of enemy mechs in relation to friendly mechs. NOT ADMIRING YOUR OWN @$$.

Now if you think it wont give people the ability to remain hidden behind terrain or buildings while seeing around them, well unless the devs make it somewhat like WOT or just make it a small window on your screen showing you and only you, it will provide an advantage.

If too much of the player base goes to the third person servers, many people will follow to gain more c-bills and/or just to kill the nubs that need it to see where their toes are pointing, it will be used against them to greater effect than they will be able to use it to help their already sub par maneuvering ability.

[BlackAce]

malibu43, on 14 November 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

90% of uber MW fans that like this game enough to spend a lot of time on the forums. The average video game player probably doesn't ever visit a forum, let alone post in silly poll threads. So there's no way one can assume this poll represents the opinion of their actual target market. There aren't enough MWO forum members to support a game like this.

The only 2% argument has been used by marketing types since people started writing petitions whenever it's convenient to ignore popular opinion in favour of the bottom line.

Because it requires a motivation on the part of the voter, the self-selecting sample is true of all polls. Funnily enough that doesn't automatically invalidate the result, if it did Mitt Romney would be sitting in the Oval Office.

[Liquidx]

Taizan, on 14 November 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

So I just listened to the NGNG podcast.
All they are talking about on is about implementing 3rd person for new users in training/tutorials to get them used to the torso twisting.

If people cannot grasp the concept of torso twising - which we as humans do constantly - then they probably shouldn't be playing this game, let alone own a computer.

Further, "implementation for training/etc" leads to "well I could do it in training, how come I can't do it now in game". This is the first step to recreating mech assault. Let the community come up with an external web based tutorial rather than creating confusion among new players, and opening doors for potentially game breaking features. They have more important stuff to FIX before they start implementing ******** like this.

[Joe Luck]

SendMyRegards, on 14 November 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

This is a gigantic wall of text but I parsed through it and I have a reply:

The controls of MWO are no more complitcated that most other games. To understand how to move, interact with your enviornment, use powers and kill enemies in any popular MMO takes a lot of practice. Alot more than MWO. Think of all the key bindings required for something like GW2, along with all of the keys required to interact with everything around you, then there are all the menu hotkeys. It's a complicated UI. MWO's functions are comparitively simply. It is obviously more complicated than something like COD, but nonetheless once you have a fit mech the controls are not difficult to get used to and there is a lot less to remember. In fact, if you can figure out how to bind your weapon groups all you need are the mouse and w,a,s, and d keys.

The answer to solving how to get users used to the MWO setup isn't to give a whole new view that brings MWO back to the dark ages of Mech Assault and MW4 JJ snipers. It's to provide a tutorial learning area where the user can run around in an environment and shoot stuff without having to worry about getting shot at. In fact, I know that a lot of users new and old would apprciate a "free roam" area to launch to with their mechs. However, instead of developing this functionality (and maybe they are and haven't told us) they want to add in 3rd perdon view. It's just a major disconnect from this game. I am absolutely for a very very robust newbie learning experience full of tutorials, explanations and information and this game does not yet have that stuff. I am not for 3rd person view.

Back in the day I tried to play quake. This was when there were spawn campers. I hated FPS for many years because of my experience. I would just start to play and die out of the gate. Then respawn and die immediately. It was very frustrating and no fun. I was playing with highly skilled people. I never played the singular player version because of the experience. Many years later I learned to like FPS games because I played it with easy going people in a structured environment. I even had a guy show me through the FPS game.

To me this is what is happening with MWO. Yes it is mitigated a bit when people join groups. However, just coming in and learning the controls can be daunting when you're new and constantly dieing. There is no place for the new people to learn general controls of their mech except through a sometimes humiliating grind. Most of the previous Mechwarrior games people at least played the single player before going online. This allowed them to know how to pilot yet still have to relearn grace under fire due to hectic nature of some games. If they work on this a lot of other problems with new players will go away. This is suppose to be a more complex game then most Free-to-plays. Also, a "LOBBY" instead relying on people to filter through the forums to get a team speak server together just to truly meet people. This has the possibility of being an e-sport.

MWO suffers from the same problem a lot of new software companies suffer from in their products, polish. A tutorial, lobby, or a meeting area for newbies are all things that indicate polish. Bring out the buffer PGI and make your software shine. Right now you've been $#$# on it. I know that's harsh but that's how it feels. Stop alienating a guy who will probably spend a couple hundred dollars a year on this game by treating him like trash. I'm not spending any money right now because I feel like a disrespected customer. You're not the only big stompy robot game in town. You're not the only btech game in town.

[Cappy]

FenixStryk, on 14 November 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

You guys are great. "3rd Person will make this game like Hawken/CoD/CS"? Not a single one of those games has 3rd Person as a primary perspective. They're all first-person.

I'll use 3PV if it comes, but I've always preferred FFP servers.

This x1billion. I don't know how everything ends up being blamed on CoD, even when CoD wasn't the first to use these features and only used them in one as a secondary game mode that nobody played. Mechwarrior was using TPV nearly a decade before CoD even came out.

CS doesn't even have this as a playable feature so Id on't even know how it got broguth up and why. If anything, CS is an example of a positive design philosophy, where it takes skill into account before ease of accessbility to new players. It's a sink or swim kind game, you either learn and get better or youd on't and you stop.

Isn't that what, more or less, people are asking for in terms of design philosophy for MWO? It's like they make these cliched statements like "catering to CoD" or "counterstrike" and yet it seems like they have never even played either of these games... Or were bad at them and now they're bitter/resentful about ti, for whatever reason.

Edited by Cappy, 14 November 2012 - 01:00 PM.

[NeonKnight]

Put me down as an emphatic NO thank you.

[Kinjry]

My honest feedback?

Stop wasting your development time on these UTTERLY USELESS TANGENTS.

You want to consider third person cameras because new players have issues learning the controls?

Why not make a TUTORIAL first? That would make sense, and actually be a constructive addition to the game that could
greatly help new players learn the game, and even enjoy their first games better.

Make a tutorial before you start considering such terrible/extreme ideas.

[Kousagi]

Boswelli, on 14 November 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

I don't know what all of the hardcore player here have against 3rd person view. It's just one other kind of option, you are not forced to use it, and PGI has the chance to reach many more gamers out there, e.g. all of the consoleros. From economy point it's just a logical move, not to mention the 360° perspective possibility - better than any radar.

Look at WoT, same system, turret = torso, chassis = legs, everything works fine with 3rd PV, and if you want to aim exactly, you can zoom into 1st PV. For all who likes simulation the game is also playable without using the external view, and the same will be with MWO too!

But it's as always, the masses are against everything what's different and new....Just try it and then complain about ;-)

WoT solved their 3rd person advantage by making it so that massive tanks could hide behind tiny blades of grass as they sit 50ft from another massive tank. If you ever played that game, you'll know that the ninja tanks are strong in that game at times. I know during its beta we had a maus cross a open field with about 8 tanks looking right at it. It was not seen till it was on top of one of our tanks, though that was when they were having the spotting bugs. Though, none the less it was entertaining in ways.

And so ya know, its not anything different or new, is old and stale. Been done before, and we know the path that it leads down. We do not want to do it again...

Edited by Kousagi, 14 November 2012 - 12:58 PM.

[KahnRa]

As others have said, say no to 3rd person. Spend that dev time coming up with a single player sandbox that new players can use to learn the game and how to move around. Even hardcore, experienced, players would like this for testing out new builds.

This would do so much more for helping, and keeping, new players then a 3rd person view where they still have to spend most of their first week dying all the time when they're trying to learn how to walk.

Heck, if you really want to dumb it down for new players, have an option to take away the throttle setting, so they get their COD Forward / Backwards movement if they need it.

[Surtr]

No thank you. Problems from 3rd person (they've all been covered): jump sniping, corner camping. Not to mention lights providing targetting info for mechs that can't see them back by peeking over hills and ridge crests. That would totally break LRM's. If you need to help the bad players give them a top down legs/torso orientation model like you find in some FPS games for tank levels (medal of honor spearhead had that i believe, as well as COD 2).

[CHAOS Ward]

3rd person is the worst thing they could add to this game. The time and effort it would take to implement needs to be put to fixing the faulty netcode.

[Purlana]

malibu43, on 14 November 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

How about this -

If they implement 3rd person view and the game is a complete failure, we all stop playing, and development is canceled, then everyone who's complaining about 3rd person can start an "I told you so" thread and tell eveyone how they were right and PGI was wrong. All of us who don't see 3rd person as a big deal will post in the thread that we were wrong and are idiots.

But, if they implement 3rd person view (and don't allow it to become an advantage, which they've acknowledged they plan on doing), the game doesn't cause the universe to implode, and we all keep playing, then everyone freaking out about 3rd person view has to post that they freaked out and were wrong, and the rest of us get to say I told you so.

Deal?

If the 3rd person view fails you need to create a sucessful mech warrior game for us. Deal?

Edited by Purlana, 14 November 2012 - 01:02 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Those of you saying a poll of a % of the population means nothing had better never again believe any poll in politics, surveys, etc etc, because all polls work like this.