3696 replies to this topic

[LogicSol]

Boswelli, on 14 November 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

I don't know what all of the hardcore player here have against 3rd person view. It's just one other kind of option, you are not forced to use it, and PGI has the chance to reach many more gamers out there, e.g. all of the consoleros. From economy point it's just a logical move, not to mention the 360° perspective possibility - better than any radar.

Congratulations, you have just highlighted the issue.

Why implement a feature that makes several other features useless.

It's like making a stealth game where you need to hide in the shadows, manage your stealth level etc to avoid detection, but introducing a mode that just highlights everyone in range.

[GreatBeer]

I am unable to express how bad of an idea I think this is and remain within the CoC. Fortunately a huge number of people in this thread have done that already so I'll just cast in a vote for "Please please please never add this ever".

[FactorlanP]

Anastasius, on 14 November 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

I am sure you could separate the population into 1st person ques and 3rd person ques for random battles etc. but how do you reconcile the 2 populations when it comes to the campaign? Will the campaign be 1st person only?

Would you believe them if they told you that Community Warfare would be only 1st person?

I won't.

Liars lie.

[Xantha]

Purlana, on 14 November 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

LOL only 5% of the forum population want's 3rd person view.

The people have spoken!

Only about that amount liked the current implementation of the mech/pilot skill trees as well and we're still stuck with that...

[Taizan]

Liquidx, on 14 November 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

If people cannot grasp the concept of torso twising - which we as humans do constantly - then they probably shouldn't be playing this game, let alone own a computer.

Well - it seems this is a major problem to players introduced to the game and they are taking a solution to introduce these players to the game, which will automatically increase the longevity of MWO. I think everyone who is enjoying the game no matter what "skill" should embrace this approach.

Even if people are used to it in RL, it obviously does not translate to the game. Personally I don't twist my torso in a different direction in which I am walking when looking at someone or rounding a corner but that just may be me.

[Brien]

Not just no but hell no, worst idea ever. That will defeat the purpose of a first person mech sim. If this is done Founders should have the option of a refund. If a few can not get a hang of the controls they should practice. You made a few million off of us only to coddle the people who cry and can not play. Give them a tutorial or give me the option of a refund, I did not support this game for a third person view, if I wanted third person I would play Hawken.

Edit: Grammar

Edited by Brien, 14 November 2012 - 04:13 PM.

[elsie]

I am in the "Emphatically NO!" camp. I feel it would seriously diminish the immersiveness of the current game.

Giving the ability to select a 3rd person drop or 1st person drop would not help. Those that had been running in 3rd person all the time would be severely handicapped by suddenly being forced into 1st person. And those that run in 1st person all the time would be handicapped by the advantages that a 3rd person view can give (since they're not likely to use it). If they're forced to use 3rd person, then they might be similarly handicapped by a lack of familiarity with it.

I feel that the best solution for most of your new player issues (aside from social ones relating to pugs and premades, preconceptions and the like) is a tutorial area. If I were to design one, it would be a mandatory, scored (numerical, not musical), scripted run through Caustic Valley with a voice-over. A minor c-bill reward might encourage new players to use it more than once to get them more proficient (500-1000 c-bills).


elsie

[Lord Jay]

Please don't do it.

Create a "Training Mission" that teaches new players what they need to know.

[Cappy]

People who play this game have no idea what they want. or what they are afraid of. Every change has been met with unwarranted hysteria. It's almost unreal how worked up they are getting over something so insignificant. If you want a MW game so badly to succeed and want it to be popular then you have to cater to the nonhardcores (the "CoD" crowd [whatever that means]). it's just the way it is. Nut up and stop crying, untwist those panties and look at the bigger picture.

[Blaank]

I will not play against players using 3rd person view, period. If you do not have the option to play forced first person games, I am going to find some other mech game to play.

[Sindari]

I would like to provide my 2¢ as someone who hasn't played MechWarrior for years and basically walked into this game as a newbie. For clarification, I mostly play FPS games and MOBA's, having not played any mech type game since Mechwarrior 2 when I was a kid.

This game has a bit of a learning curve - yes. It took me probably 2-3 matches to learn how to torso twist and walk independently, it did take a trip to the forum to learn how to edit my weapon groups. After that, I would definitely say within 5 games, the only challenge I had was learning heat management in the trial mechs. After those first couple of rough matches where I was mostly useless (which a simple training program would alleviate), this game has been a blast. I've been playing with several friends now since the Open Beta and we're all hooked. I absolutely love the attention to detail to the cockpit environment for the level of immersion it provides.

I think adding 3rd person to this game would be a terrible idea. On top of the many already expressed opinions of it being advantageous to use behind cover/around corners to gain a view you could not get from your mech's cockpit, I think it ruins the immersion. I don't see any reason to add this to help new players. I think a training program would be FAR superior of a solution. As a person who has only been playing for 2 weeks, I would gladly help identify all the trouble areas when first starting as they are still fresh in mind. I think an educated playerbase would provide a much more satisfactory experience of the game than adding a crutch of 3rd person view.

I see this adding too many advantages and being used by people who don't need it to learn but want to use it for line of sight abuse. I am having a hard time conceiving of a 3rd person mech view that would not be a form of top isometric view that grants you additional viewing angles.

Please PGI, help people learn this awesome game for how it is. Don't implement 3rd person.

Thanks for your hard work so far!

[Purlana]

Stormfury, on 14 November 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

Only about that amount liked the current implementation of the mech/pilot skill trees as well and we're still stuck with that...

That's because the pilot skill tree is poorly designed. Honestly it's not even a skill tree, there are no choices...

Edited by Purlana, 14 November 2012 - 01:13 PM.

[Vilheim]

Here, PGI, let me write you a short program to express my thoughts.


#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#define LLIMIT 99999


int main(int argc, char** argv)
{
int i;
for(i = 0; i < LLIMIT;i++)
{
printf("N\n");
printf(" O\n");
}
for(i = 0; i < LLIMIT;i++)
{
printf("NO\n");
}
printf("Seriously, this is bad idea. Enabling for tutorials and for spectating I see third person as alright,\n");
printf("but I don't need to really repeat the same reasons as everyone here before me has already stated as\n");
printf("to why this will harm your game if this is put in the mainstream gaming experience");
return(EXIT_SUCCESS);
}

[malibu43]

Taizan, on 14 November 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

Well - it seems this is a major problem to players introduced to the game and they are taking a solution to introduce these players to the game, which will automatically increase the longevity of MWO. I think everyone who is enjoying the game no matter what "skill" should embrace this approach. Even if people are used to it in RL, it obviously does not translate to the game. Personally I don't twist my torso in a different direction in which I am walking when looking at someone or rounding a corner but that just may be me.

I just lol'd at the thought of someone walking around the office twisting their torso like a mech.

[Undead Bane]

Ok ppl, let's face it: we will have it VERY, VERY likely. So, as it's kinda inevitable, let me do two suggestions on how that can be.

SUGGESTION 1:

New player is greeted by a nice woman's voice, that announces, that he is now running "Mechwarrior training simulator MKV", which allows to understand the very basics of mech controls and also make some warfare simulation.
There he learns to walk, twist torso, point at targets properly by some kind of training exercises (they, actually, can even be taken from canon books), and exactly HERE he can turn the third person view, to help to understand mech's movements better and, probably, to feel more comfortable.
Oh, and third person here should not be mandatory - if someone needs it, he turns it on, if someone doesn't - he doesn't. Plus, a player should be warned, that there is no such thing on a real battlefield, so he should not get too used to it.
This must be announced with nice female voice too.

After a mission or two (say, M1: basic controlls, M2: targetting) a very different brutal/angry man's voice announces "Ok rookie, playtime is over, now it's time to pilot a real mech. No more "viewing your back" crap, we have a fight to win" - and drop you into the cockpit of something, say HBK. You go to, for example, a copy of MW2Mercs convoy mission and after that you are welcome to the real online experience.

I personally would sign up for implementing AI and routines for this kind of training. I luv programming interesting stuff anyway (and do have experience sufficient for that, you can have my resume, PGI)


SUGGESTION 2:

1. Split the player base to "ranked" (1st person ONLY) and "unranked" (= not cool, 1st and 3rd together). Don't fool yourself - it will be eventually done anyway. Yes, also eventually 3rd persons will whine their way into ranked, but let's hope it will be long time "eventually".
2. Limit LoS. Yes, like WoT did. No, it won't be that crappy, as what WoT had were artifacts of the game engine and curvy hands, that can not implement (simple) visible lines algorithm properly.
3. ...
4. PROFIT?

________________________________________________________________

And unrestricted 3rd person is a blasphemy for anyone, related to a game, that pretends to be a sort of "simulator", unfortunately.

Edited by Undead Bane, 14 November 2012 - 01:45 PM.

[Valdune]

Going to have to say, "No thank you."

Many good reasons listed in this thread NOT to do it.
There are plenty of "first person shooter" games that have third person views. Some of them even allow the people running the server to disable that function. Because people know, that it can and will be abused.
ie...looking around corners without exposing themselves.

[Jot Nara]

I don't know who is going to have the patience to read all of these, but here we go...

The issues with implementing a 3rd person view have been spelled out - at length and then some.

Please don't do it. I have been nothing but supportive of this game, haven't criticized anything, but this will kill my game experience with MWO.

Perhaps sometime down the road, have a special 'fun only' game mode with 3rd person, maybe even have the mechs explode in a confetti burst while you're at it, but absolutely DO NOT put it in real matches or community warfare.

Would I still play MWO if 3rd person was put in? Yes, occasionally. But I probably wouldn't spend any more money on it.

I implore you PGI, make this a game that I will love to play for years. I will gladly give you hundreds, perhaps thousands of dollars if you do. I really hate ultimatums, but it’s the simple truth.

[Robin Wolf]

As other users said, it takes away from the flavor and character of the game. It provides an anti-immersive ability to see around corners, hills, and various other obstacles removing a lot of the terrain based tactics you've been working on incorporating in the game.

It would detract severely from the information-management focus of gameplay, given that a 3rd person view includes a wider area both by necessity (to be able to actually see around the 'mech) and by virtue of not having the cockpit graphics in the way.

One actual gameplay concern I have, is that sneaking up on mechs will no longer be possible.

3rd person really messed up MW4 for competitive play.

HINT: Poptart JJ snipers who can see over hilltops.

NO to 3rd person view.

Edited by Robin Wolf, 14 November 2012 - 01:16 PM.

[RG Notch]

The funny part of this thread is people giving feedback like they will listen. The decision is made and this thread exists so they can shunt all the discussions that will flood the forum and make it look like people are upset over it. This keeps it nice and tidy and allows them to say they are listening. We as paying players are second class citizens, they want the potential player and lots of them complain that this game is too hard and 3rd person is easier than producing a real tutorial.
99% of those of us on the forums could be against it, but the bean counters at PGI are for it and guess who's going to win in the end? They don't believe we won't play or pay anymore, they know how loyal this community and how desperate we are to have a successful MW game after a decade so they will ignore us and listen to the massive console audience that wants things simplified for them.

[Alois Hammer]

Thatnanoguy, on 14 November 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

I really dont understand why people are saying this would ruin the game. It wouldnt affect current 1st person player AT ALL. The gametypes would be set up so that 1st person would play with 1st person and third person would play with third. If you want the "sim" feel. Play first person!!! Dont ruin it for newbies and people who would rather see their mech while playing. Thats just absurd.

Cuts both ways- don't ruin it for the people who have supported Mechwarrior in its various incarnations for decades just to try and coax a few console twitch junkies (who'll leave as quickly as they show up next week when some new game comes out) on board.

Zylo, on 14 November 2012 - 11:58 AM, said:

Have you considered that some experienced players would exploit this and use 3rd person knowing new players would be using it just to get easy kills?

How exactly would that help keep new players?

The same way dropping newbies piloting Trials into a match with an 8-man custom-mech-piloting premade does.

Edited by Alois Hammer, 14 November 2012 - 01:20 PM.