88 replies to this topic

[JudgeDeathCZ]

If i remember good in MW4 was limitations for JJ/ECM/BAP/LAMS too so why not here?
You can choose if u wanna play fast skirmisher like jenner or electronic warfare scout like raven...

[Aquilus]

Hansh0tfirst, on 15 November 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

Problem...

The "weakest" Jenner still overshadows the "strongest" Raven.

It features a lower profile, jumpjets, the same armor capacity, at least as many weapon hardpoints (if not more), and can be fitted with a considerably larger engine.

RVN-3L is basically a JR7-D with one less energy hardpoint, more conveniently placed missile hardpoints and no jumpjets. If you think an XL300 engine is "considerably larger" than an XL295, I'm not sure what you're on. Fact is, if the Raven gets exclusive use of or significantly improved ECM, it will be the definite. To mirror your question, why should I bother with the Jenner if the Raven gets ECM? Just for jumpjets?

Also, I'd disagree that the weakest Jenner overshadows the strongest Raven. RVN-3L is a superior mech to that silly JR7-K in my opinion.

[icey]

yeah but a raven isnt supposed to be able to out-deathmatch a jenner - if role warfare works as intended, the encounter plays out like this:

raven with ecm scouts
jenner sees him, but can't lock at distance due to ecm, goes to engage
raven breaks off, heads back to supporting units
jenner follows, ecm still denies him being able to share his targeting with his team
jenner ends up fighting raven and supporting units without the benefit of support fire of his own
jenner has the choice of trying to kill raven or raven and supporting units unassisted, or disengaging

thats the essence of why ECM should be limited - if everyone had it, theres no reason to not use the best deathmatch mech in each weight class, and role warfare goes out the window.

[Kaelus]

James Warren, on 15 November 2012 - 10:32 PM, said:

I think so long as a specialised electronic warfare mech like a Raven can do it better, I'm alright with it. I remember reading something along the lines of a mech like a Raven having more slots for this type of equipment than your average mech.

I think its in the game's best interest if great care is taken to preserve mech diversity. I do love customization and seeing different players' loadouts, but at the same time I think you should expect something like a Raven to perfom a certain role and to do it well; to have its own niche on the battlefield.

The entire mech was built around the guardian ECM because they couldn't fit it into any other chassis so they designed the raven around it. Plus it has more EW stuff as well. Raven needs a reason to exist otherwise, why not take a much more useful jenner?

Also I wonder if they limited it to what it present can do...

"The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range, which extends out to only 180 meters." Methinks it's range is 1000m and shuts down mechs if it looks in their direction. It'll go live.

Edited by Kaelus, 15 November 2012 - 11:50 PM.

[Tragaperras]

Aquilus, on 15 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

RVN-3L is basically a JR7-D with one less energy hardpoint, more conveniently placed missile hardpoints and no jumpjets. If you think an XL300 engine is "considerably larger" than an XL295, I'm not sure what you're on. Fact is, if the Raven gets exclusive use of or significantly improved ECM, it will be the definite. To mirror your question, why should I bother with the Jenner if the Raven gets ECM? Just for jumpjets?

Also, I'd disagree that the weakest Jenner overshadows the strongest Raven. RVN-3L is a superior mech to that silly JR7-K in my opinion.

Silly missile pods on Raven 3L(1 missile only per volley), energy slots are worse placed. JR7-K is still better than RVN-3L. Just try both and compare.

[Revorn]

If everyone could use ECM, LRM´s completly useless. Hard enogh, not being able to lock on, on only 1 Scout, but not being able to lock on the whole Enemy Unit?

[Kaelus]

Revorn, on 15 November 2012 - 11:53 PM, said:

If everyone could use ECM, LRM´s completly useless. Hard enogh, not being able to lock on, on only 1 Scout, but not being able to lock on the whole Enemy Unit?

"someone kill the jammer..he's 180 m away...oh wait he's dead...resuming LRMS"

[Revorn]

Kaelus, on 15 November 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

"someone kill the jammer..he's 180 m away...oh wait he's dead...resuming LRMS"

"someone kill the jammer..he's 180 m away...oh wait "only 3 Minutes if he dances between out Legs", he's dead...resuming LRMS"


Some specific Mechs carrying EMC, oki, But all Mechtypes? I wouldnt sugesst that.

[Hansh0tfirst]

Aquilus, on 15 November 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

RVN-3L is basically a JR7-D with one less energy hardpoint, more conveniently placed missile hardpoints and no jumpjets. If you think an XL300 engine is "considerably larger" than an XL295, I'm not sure what you're on. Fact is, if the Raven gets exclusive use of or significantly improved ECM, it will be the definite. To mirror your question, why should I bother with the Jenner if the Raven gets ECM? Just for jumpjets?

Also, I'd disagree that the weakest Jenner overshadows the strongest Raven. RVN-3L is a superior mech to that silly JR7-K in my opinion.

The largest capacity engine a Raven can support is 245 (XL or Standard), not 295.

It's the difference between 113.4kph and 138.9kph.

So yes, I do happen to think 300 is "considerably larger" than 245. Want to know what I'm on? Math.

I also believe the lower profile, additional weapon hardpoint (at least for the D & F), and access to jumpjets are significant reasons to choose the Jenner, even if ECM is made exclusive to the Raven.

But you're welcome to the opinion "more conveniently placed missile hardpoints" plus ECM would make the Raven a superior mech. 'Cause I'm sure you're gonna cram a couple of LRM-20s in there, right?

[Minos Murdoc]

My memory is a bit rusty but i seem to remember that ECM could not be used on all mechs in TT, if thats the case they should keep it that way.

[Vassago Rain]

Yes. No strings attached.
Limiting the electronics to gimp mechs won't magically make people run the gimp mechs. Better to make them actually useful, than hold key equipment pieces hostage.

[Tragaperras]

Hansh0tfirst, on 16 November 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

The largest capacity engine a Raven can support is 245 (XL or Standard), not 295.

It's the difference between 113.4kph and 138.9kph.

So yes, I do happen to think 300 is "considerably larger" than 245. Want to know what I'm on? Math.

I also believe the lower profile, additional weapon hardpoint (at least for the D & F), and access to jumpjets are significant reasons to choose the Jenner, even if ECM is made exclusive to the Raven.

But you're welcome to the opinion "more conveniently placed missile hardpoints" plus ECM would make the Raven a superior mech. 'Cause I'm sure you're gonna cram a couple of LRM-20s in there, right?

3L can mount 295XL. The problem with 3L is its missile pods, they shoot only 1 missile per volley.

[Hansh0tfirst]

Tragaperras, on 16 November 2012 - 01:45 AM, said:

3L can mount 295XL. The problem with 3L is its missile pods, they shoot only 1 missile per volley.

Then I stand corrected. I own all three variants and would have sworn the largest I could fit was 245 even on the 3L. I definitely have to spend more time in the MechLab.

[Hansh0tfirst]

Vassago Rain, on 16 November 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

Yes. No strings attached.
Limiting the electronics to gimp mechs won't magically make people run the gimp mechs. Better to make them actually useful, than hold key equipment pieces hostage.

By those standards, why limit mechs at all?

Consider this my official request for a FLEA with four LRM launchers, 2 Gauss Rifles, a couple SSRM-6s for good measure... oh and 20 tons of armor plz.

[Shi no Kami]

Sure. It's 1.5T less armor and equipment for my Brawlers to Punch through. ECM won't do jack to a brawler...

[Vassago Rain]

Hansh0tfirst, on 16 November 2012 - 02:01 AM, said:

By those standards, why limit mechs at all?

Consider this my official request for a FLEA with four LRM launchers, 2 Gauss Rifles, a couple SSRM-6s for good measure... oh and 20 tons of armor plz.

Mechs really aren't limited at all, other than by tonnage, slots, and hardpoints. You can make a ghetto hollander out of a raven, or an ER large laserboat jenner - if you want to.

It's as it should be.

[Hansh0tfirst]

Vassago Rain, on 16 November 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

Mechs really aren't limited at all, other than by tonnage, slots, and hardpoints. You can make a ghetto hollander out of a raven, or an ER large laserboat jenner - if you want to.

It's as it should be.

Okay, so how do I fit jumpjets on my Raven 3L?

[Thorn Hallis]

Yes, it should. But certain 'Mechs/variants should also get skills in the pilot lab that boost ECM performance.

[Naotaka]

It should be limited. Same goes for the Command Module. People should recognise a Raven or an Atlas D-DC and understand what gear it will have and what impact that has on the battle.

It helps with immersion and believability ! "OMG A RAVEN, stomp it, its snooping us !" (I'm a Raven pilot btw )

And if you absolutely NEED to put a spinning radar on a Raven to make it more easiliy visible that it has ECM/BAP, so be it

[Joseph Mallan]

To answer your question, Yes. It is a piece of equipment that even is used in assault Mechs.

Quote

STK-3Fb - The 3Fb variant of the Stalker carries a Guardian ECM Suite in the center torso, upgrades the large lasers to extended range versions, and adds Artemis IV fire control systems to the LRM-15s that replace the Jackson LRM-10 launchers. The SRM-6 racks are gone, and the standard heat sinks were replaced with seventeen double heat sinks.

So once they are available I will be mounting one in my Atlas.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 16 November 2012 - 04:42 AM.