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Streaks Hit 100%

v1.0.150

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#121 FallguySoldier

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:17 AM

View PostVila deVere, on 21 November 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

I'm seeing lots of 4-man team just running 4 streakapults. And they just SSRM spam everything in sight. WAY out of balance now.


I don't mind. It makes dealing with light mechs a little bit easier now.

#122 Snib

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:23 AM

View PostDimento Graven, on 21 November 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

Maximum damage possible is 120 points per volley, and yes, that evaporate any light 'mech, and severly hurt any medium 'mech.

Working as intended...

And maximum volley damage of a lance of 2 LRM20 cats is 272 on the launchers alone. What are you talking about exactly?

#123 Dagger6T6

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:26 AM

i will concede that the SSRM2 should not have the amount of cockpit shake it does... that needs to be reduced alot

other than that I can't really have an opinion because framerates post patch are so bad I can't even target a mech

#124 Straylight

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:29 AM

View PostVrbas, on 21 November 2012 - 07:44 AM, said:

Posted Image
Who's that aimed at, or were you looking for a different "can't tell if" meme?

View PostSnib, on 21 November 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

All that would prove is that there were 4 terrible players in streak cats.
I contend that four terrible players in Streakcats, working together, would still manage a kill or two between them. The point of Streaks is that they don't really require much skill to use well, yes?

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DPS = damage per second
Which is an average and may vary by the total length of time that an asset's output is measured over, yes. To wit: Let's say I can sustain a hypothetical DPS of 50 for ten seconds in my mouse-a-pult, but then for the next ten seconds I must drop off to 25 DPS in order to avoid overheating. After that, in my next ten seconds, I can ramp back up to the full 50 again, and so on. If I repeat this pattern, I can sustain fire for two minutes before I run out of ammo.

--In a 10-second fight, my DPS is 50.
--In a 20-second fight, my DPS is 37.5
--In a 35-second fight, my DPS is 34.375
--In a three minute fight, my DPS is 25.

DPS is meaningless because it's a value without context. Even if the time interval is known, it's still not a very useful calculation when it can be artifically adjusted by other inputs and must contend with other factors (such as heat).

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Why would you compare a full mech loadout to half a loadout? Anyway, 6 SSRM2 can cause up to 90 damage within 10 seconds, exactly the same as 2 Gauss. But then a Gaussapult typically runs 2 ML in addition.
I'm not sure a pair of MLs constitutes "half" of a Gausscat, but if your numbers are correct then my point is made anyway: both setups make a theoretical 90 DPS over a 10-second interval, with the difference being that one of those setups will routinely achieve actual working numbers closer to that ideal than the other, as Dimento is about to explain:

View PostDimento Graven, on 21 November 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

Irrelevant as a gauss rifle hits from over 1000m, ALWAYS hits for full force, is not affected by AMS, requires no lock to hit.
All true, but these factors are mitigated by the need to actually aim the weapons. The fatal flaw of almost every system of machines is that there's a human operator at one end of it, and Gauss Rifles are no different. Gauss Rifles hit from long range, very hard, and can't be intercepted... but they don't always hit to begin with. Streaks do, or at least do in the ideal conditions of our little thought experiment here. Real-world performance numbers are obviously going to differ, but my strong suspicion is that Streaks will come out significantly ahead of Gauss Rifles.

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No, like you're trying to compensate for the vibration of the hits. You can still aim through missle, AC, gauss shake, if the target and you are moving in predictable manner, just continue the smooth mouse movements you would if you weren't being shaken. The cockpit shake doesn't alter the location of where you're aiming in the least. It's an effect that is meant to disorient you.
I'll pay closer attention in future games, assuming I can get past my framerate issues. This isn't what I've observed, but when I'm being pelted by incoming ordnance paying close attention to whether or not my shots are still following my crosshair is typically not my top priority.

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Agreed, it's a bad idea, especially since the missles come out the front. Approach from the sides or rear and none of the streak carriers weapons are a problem.
Except in circumstances when the Streakcat in question is faster than you are, which is a situation I run into often at the moment. I also lack the Alpha capability necessary to take a Catapult's arm off in one strike.

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This is not a bad idea actually. A lighter target has a lower mass ratio and therefore should suffer greater rocking. I like it.
That one's filed under "pipe dreams", honestly. I've been suggesting it for months now, but it'd be a pain in the *** to code in for something with a negligible effect on gameplay.

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I disagree with this, I doubt my GPU is any better than yours. My PC is apparently near the "minimal" specs required to run this game. I never get above 15fps, but that won't be something I have to live with forever, I'll upgrade soon, so why put in a patch that will actually benefit those people already on a more modern machine more capable of handling the shakes? Screw 'em I say.
I sit around 20 on a clear field, drop into the mid-teens in a heavy fight, and single digits when missiles start landing anywhere in the same zipcode as my cockpit.

My point was that my framerates and associated troubles have gotten better over time with PGI's continuing optimizing, and that they need to keep improving the game in this regard in order for the game to succeed. Games that only bleeding-edge machines can run tend to sell poorly (Crysis comes to mind... and oh look, MWO runs on a descendant of the engine Crysis used).

#125 JayVrb

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:31 AM

View PostStraylight, on 21 November 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

Who's that aimed at, or were you looking for a different "can't tell if" meme?


Thread title.

#126 DTheSleepless

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:33 AM

View PostDegeneratePervert, on 21 November 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

The problem isn't the missiles themselves, they're fine and balanced. The issue is the catapult. Anyone else notice that Cats routinely break the game because of their hardpoints?


This. THIS. It's the six missile hardpoints that makes the Streak Cat dumb, although even as a light mech pilot I submit that the Streak Cat can be dealt with so long as it's dealt with at range by a teammate who can pop him.

View PostSnib, on 21 November 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

And maximum volley damage of a lance of 2 LRM20 cats is 272 on the launchers alone. What are you talking about exactly?


Except LRMs don't all hit the way SSRMs do. Your point is invalid. LRMs can be dodged and negated by AMS, SSRMs are much, much harder to dodge and negate.

I will say that SSRM damage should probably go back down to where it was before this last patch. I felt like it was fair then. And I say this as a Streak Commando pilot, I wasn't really needing or wanting a handout.

#127 Xenok

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:33 AM

View PostDailey, on 20 November 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

From patch notes: Streaks (SSRMs) are now going to hit 100% of the time. Are you kidding me, nothing should hit 100%. I guess now we will be playing SSRM online instead of LRM online. Who would want to play anything else now?


You left out part: SSRMs will now hit 100% unless something in the way or latency issues.

They do mean that if the person firing streaks has you targeted and keeps you targeted and nothing gets in the way the streaks should hit. This is how streaks are and how they should be.

#128 deputydog

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:34 AM

Call em Skeeters

#129 Gaussy

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:37 AM

First match I joined last night.. 1 minute in doing the usual scouting I run into a ssrm cat and ssrm commando. (what seemed like) 30 seconds later rear armor is pretty well shot and I just could not shake em - weaving in and around all kinds of stuff to try and break their lock. Not long after that another ssrm volley took me out. If anything with an ssrm gets behind you now it seems like that's pretty much it. game over man, game over. not so much fun.

#130 Straylight

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:38 AM

View Postdeputydog, on 21 November 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

Call em Skeeters

From mosquito, in the meaning of small and annoying, but ultimately harmless? Maybe Commandos...

Currently they're the game's Demon Spiders (to the Jenner's Lightning Bruiser), if anything.

Of course, what I'd rather call them is target coordinates for an artillery strike.

#131 FallguySoldier

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:43 AM

Nothing wrong with SSRMs. They're now an effective way to take on light mechs, and anyone who pilots a heavy and goes against one or two light mechs knows what a nightmare experience that is. Secondly, SSRMs are effective only within 270 meters away from the target, that's pretty danger close, and in fact you can't unload your volleys UNTIL you've actually made a target with your crosshair, so there's a reasonable high-risk-high-reward thing going on here.

#132 Vloth

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:46 AM

Yeah, the Shake on the SSRM 2s is insane. It's as bad as the problem used to be with LRMs in Closed Beta-- except now it's at close range and constant. I understand the increase on the SSRM DAMAGE from the patch, but if that's the case, get rid of the shake. SSRM2s shouldn't be a game-changer (I Win button). Right now they are.

View PostDTheSleepless, on 21 November 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

I will say that SSRM damage should probably go back down to where it was before this last patch. I felt like it was fair then. And I say this as a Streak Commando pilot, I wasn't really needing or wanting a handout.


AMEN. QFT! The Developers took something that wasn't broken (SSRMs) and "fixed" them. People- What did your mother tell you? "IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT! " You now broke SSRMs. Please go back to the last patch as far as they are concerned. They worked well, and they had their place and function.

#133 Dimento Graven

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:48 AM

View PostThontor, on 21 November 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

120 damage per alpha of 4 mechs? Oh no

That's only 30 per mech, which is nothing spectacular.

4 mechs focusing fire will generally "evaporate" mechs using any loadout with a decent alpha strike damage. Streaks are nothing special. Even on an A1. All they do is take aim skill out of the equation. Anyone can be effective with them. But they aren't as scary as a mechwarrior who can aim with direct for weapons that have a higher alpha strike.

Agreed.

#134 Straylight

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:49 AM

Again: I contend that Streaks are not the problem, the Catapult is.

As much as I love the chassis, it's been the source of more headaches and balance issues for this game than anything else so far.

Treat the disease, not the symptom. Drop the A1 down to 4 missile hardpoints and the problem is solved.

#135 Snib

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:50 AM

View PostStraylight, on 21 November 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

I contend that four terrible players in Streakcats, working together, would still manage a kill or two between them. The point of Streaks is that they don't really require much skill to use well, yes?

Oh, the "no skill" argument. I think I told you already, you have to try harder. And as usual you contradict yourself, because four terrible players would not be working together. They're terrible after all. Or in other words: Any four mechs focusing fire will get a kill, no matter the weapon system.

#136 DTheSleepless

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:54 AM

View PostSnib, on 21 November 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

Oh, the "no skill" argument. I think I told you already, you have to try harder. And as usual you contradict yourself, because four terrible players would not be working together. They're terrible after all. Or in other words: Any four mechs focusing fire will get a kill, no matter the weapon system.


Even Machine Guns?

...couldn't resist.

#137 Dimento Graven

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:54 AM

Here's some actual data, and I can provide screen shots of the match ending if you like, to prove my data is factual.

These are from last night's runs where I'm piloting my Catapult A1, LRM15x2, Streakx4, I consider myself an 'average gunner' at best, and an 'above average pilot':

Catapult A1 - Victory - 266 - 2 - 2
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 601 - 1 - 1
Catapult A1 - Victory - 677 - 2 - 5
Catapult A1 - Victory - 151 - 0 - 3
Catapult A1 - Victory - 278 - 1 - 0
Catapult A1 - Victory - 296 - 2 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 212 - 1 - 4
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 137 - 0 - 3
Catapult A1 - Victory - 575 - 2 - 4

In 9 matches, I only got above 500 damage points three times, never got more than 2 kills, and the damage average was 354.7.

From previous night's games, and if you really want me to I can get the previous night's listed, the damage is only moderately less.

They obviously tweaked it, but not all that much.

Here's the stats from the games from the night PRIOR to the patch:

Catapult A1 - Victory - 242 - 0 - 6
Catapult A1 - Victory - 412 - 0 - 7
Catapult A1 - Victory - 238 - 1 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 218 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 177 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 52 - 0 - 0
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 124 - 1 - 1
Catapult A1 - Victory - 330 - 0 - 4

8 games, 2 kills. No game above 500 damage. Average damage per match 224.13

Edited by Dimento Graven, 21 November 2012 - 09:14 AM.


#138 Ryvucz

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:57 AM

View PostRoland, on 20 November 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

If you are running a standard engine in your commando, then you are doing it wrong. And if you are running the max engine, then it means you must have no weapons or armor on your mech.

So, the problem is that your mech configuration needs a lot of work.


Really? I had no idea... despite it being at max armor, and two medium lasers minimum. I must be a complete *****, thanks for pointing this out to me. =)

Because obviously, Endo-Steel, Ferro-Fibrous and Double Heat Sinks have nothing to do with weight balancing. Silly me.

View PostMercules, on 21 November 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:


Are you not loading Streaks on your Commando? With one variant you can load more streaks than the other lights and hammer them. Another option is to use longer ranged weaponry. I was taking out Jenners in my CMD last night even though I wasn't using the one that could load 3 streaks. You simply move to slow to get away. The times when I got killed by streaks last night were when I ran into the 6 Streak Cats unexpectedly, like turned a corner and there they were. Not right up close, but right in range. No time to turn and run and to far away to charge past them before the lock meant I was in trouble.


Ah, yes. Moving too slow. 136.1 KPH is way too slow to escape. Noted.

View PostZwietracht, on 21 November 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:


thats the maximum


When I say minimum, it does not have other weapons.

#139 Buckler

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:03 AM

I'm definitely in agreement that a x6 SSRM2 CPLT-A1 with a fancy engine is quite strong, but I don't think you can pin the problem on the SSRMs. Nerfing the SSRM because the CPLT-A1 is able to exploit the cumulative power of 6 of them is like nerfing the Medium Laser because HBK-4P is so powerful with 9 of them.

I think we're mostly observing the known phenomena where 4 mechs focusing fire on the same target will decimate them no matter what (although the individual Streak cat is certainly a more efficient light-muncher than most.)

#140 Lykaon

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:06 AM

View PostVila deVere, on 21 November 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

I'm seeing lots of 4-man team just running 4 streakapults. And they just SSRM spam everything in sight. WAY out of balance now.



Now? the streakcat was only out of style for 2 weeks.

Not sure what game you were playing two weeks back but you were certain to see one streakcat per team at least.Also tripple streak cents and commandos.

Why? because....

Minimal aiming skill required.You can be the worst shot in the galaxy and still hit with all your weapons every shot.
Oh and you could be playing from the moon with 600 ping and still hit.
Streaks are an excellent crutch weapon.A bit of an equalizer for inept pilots.However streaks are open to flagrent abuse by lazy pilots who are actually skilled.

2.5 damage per missile 5 damage per streak SRM2.

The streakcat has what is essentially an LBX30 that always hits with every single shot in the burst.(unless the streaks are back to homming in on CT with every shot,then they have an AC30 with CT homming ammo)

The tripple streak commando and centurions are in effect using sawed off gauss rifles with a 100% chance of landing 15 damage at 270m.

So if you are a hoplessly poor shot and never manage to put shots on the enemy mech (just forget about focusing a specific location) drive a crutch cat.

If you are playing from Mars and need to beat the tremendous latency drive a crutch cat.

If you are to lazy to aim drive a crutch cat.





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