336 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

Pugnacious Stoat, on 21 November 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

If you can spare a few minutes, watch this, especially from 50 seconds onward:



I was spectating when that happened (though I'm not the person narrating the video, obviously), and it was the first time I was really impressed with the game. The biggest problem I had with MW4 multiplayer was that all most people ever did was take an assault mech, stomp out to the center of the map, and trade shots to the center torso until someone died. It was still fun, but it lacked depth and variety. The fact that PGI has found a way to make the biggest, baddest mechs in the game vulnerable to some of the smallest isn't "craptastic," it's brilliant. Why should the simplistic logic of bigger=better dominate the game? Things are much more interesting this way. Every mech has a role in combat (which will always be the core of the game for most players, no matter how big PGI makes the spotting bonuses), and no mech is king. I think you'll find that many of us like it that way, and no, we aren't smoking anything.

Let's see... I could very easy see the that other very damaged 'mechs that had ammo to fire, or short range weapons available to fire, were suffering from the 'lag' shielding. They were firing where they "saw" the 'mech, unfortunately, he was actually several meters in front of that, and it was easy to see that from how the majority of the shots were behind him.

If the netcode was fixed he'd have been dead a long time ago.

Again, all you've done is demonstrate that the game is broken, a 25 ton 'mech is not designed, does not have the armor, nor the weaponry to fight one on one, a heavier 'mech. FYI: This movie was made even before they took out tripping. Heck, had that other team coordinated their efforts and tripped him, he'd have been dead.

The lack of tripping has broken this game even further beyond the 'realm' of reasonablness.

Absolutely, EVERY 'mech has a 'role' in combat, but a light 'mech's role is NOT battle line.

To think so is stupid on the order of something so great, I have nothing but inappropriate comparisons to state it...

[Master Cerberus]

Almeras, on 21 November 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

^ This. The A1 only has 6 slots to make i them different from other variants. IMO PGI wouldn't have let this in if it wasn't for the fact it was first heavy in the game and they needed mech options. They should just dump it from the game and refund XP (as GXP) /CBills

People would still whine that the other cat can mount 4 of them, it also fills a role of "missile support" so why exactly should it be dropped?

[Dimento Graven]

Charles Seneca, on 21 November 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

ACs need to aimed, thus continuous shaking does not happen anywhere near as often especially as distance to target increases. This gives the target at least a chance to shoot back.

SSRMs require a lock, a very LONG locking process when it comes to battlefield conditions, and then you MUST maintain that lock for the next round to fire, much like aiming. It's less pinpoint, BUT, from your response it's obvious you've never come up against a dual AC/2 carring 'mech. My oh my are you in for a suprise, and god forbid you come up against a Cataphract with 4 AC's... Your head will probably explode all over your desk...

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LRMS are, as the name suggests, long range and slow to boot. When you see them coming you can usually find cover fairly quickly and they do not have a 100% hit rate.

For the best long harrassment, it's fun to load up 4 LRM10's, they cycle pretty fast, and unless you can break lock, you'll effectively be under an endless rain of LRMs.

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SSRMS are short range. You don't see em coming and certainly have a lot less chance to find cover. They have 100% hit rate all the way out to 270m with only a lock needed.

You can only pack a maximum of 6SSRMs for a total of 12 SSRM missles in flight. Equipping AMS will certainly take care a portion of the incomming missles. Also, unless they have NOT activated chain fire, they have to maintain the missle lock all the way through the chain, otherwise subsequent missles will either still miss (as evidenced by a video I submitted earlier), or they just won't fire.

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In short, AC and LRM have weaknesses which makes the screen shake they cause far less intolerable than that caused by SSRMs.

No, try as you like to try and villify a weapon so that you can maintain the previously broken 'status quo', all you've done is make weak ineffective, incomplete, and not quite true arguments against the latest fix.

But again, I'm sure the focus of your ire will change once you run into a quad AC Cataphract...

[Asatruer]

Dimento Graven, on 21 November 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Hmm... You want me to be able to hit arms, legs, and head, as well as the left and right torsos?

Welp... Considering the thin armor on smaller 'mechs arms, legs, and head... Sure, why not? I'll probably be able to kill off light 'mechs much more quickly after I leg, or disarm them. It'll certainly be cheaper on the ammo budget I'm sure...

Carefull what you wish for... You just may get it.

I did not say that I want anything, I described what BattleTech TT is.
But sure, have SSRM2s not just hit the CT, as they are supposed to, and as PGI has said they are trying to do. It would be no worse than having the AC/2 and Small Laser being able to hit arms and legs as well as the torsos. How could a properly scattered SSRM2 that deals just over 2 points of damage to two different (or even rarely the same) location on a light mech worse than the AC/2 or Small laser?

[Dimento Graven]

Asatruer, on 21 November 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

How could a properly scattered SSRM2 that deals just over 2 points of damage to two different (or even rarely the same) location on a light mech worse than the AC/2 or Small laser?

I don't know, but I'm sure they'll just start ******** about that too...

[Mercules]

Ryvucz, on 21 November 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

So, the part where you added the totals of the arm plus torso, for maximum armor in one facing, is logical thinking and math skills? And you're bashing me over feedback I was giving to the devs, whom, in turn, contact me if they need more information, yet you're here to nail anyone to a cross over personal experience and what you think? I wish I had your job.

Yes, adding up all that armor is logical thinking. I made an assumption that you were a decent pilot and spread damage out by maneuvering. That is what good pilots do. Bad pilots leave the exact same facing to someone for 3 shots allowing them to blow up one location. You mentioned dodging and weaving. So, IF you are spreading damage around your mech then the armor value of arm and torso would be relevant. If you let them shoot you in the side torso over and over without reacting then only the side armor would be relevant, but only a poor player would do that. So if my math is off because they are only shooting you in the one spot........... make the connection.

[MustrumRidcully]

Redmond Spiderhammer, on 20 November 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I agree... its not that I dont like streaks or think they are way OPd... I just dont think they are a good translation of TT streaks, which really did two things.. saved ammo by not firing if they were going to miss anyway and ensure the entire salvo hit the mech somewhere. I'm not sure there is a better way to capture the TT description in a video game though.

Homing may not be a bad idea, but I think the result of Streaks is - you have a lower ROF, but a 100 % hit chance. Every time you wouldn't hit, you don't fire, that means on average, your rate of fire is lower. But that#s neatly compensated by hitting everytime you acutally let lose some missiles.

THe locking doesn't work adequately to acount for this, since you can lock groups of missiles. They would need a 6-Streak Mech lock 6 times longer than a single Streak mech to balance this effect, and that's just silly.

[Charles Seneca]

Dimento Graven, on 21 November 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

SSRMs require a lock, a very LONG locking process when it comes to battlefield conditions, and then you MUST maintain that lock for the next round to fire, much like aiming. It's less pinpoint, BUT, from your response it's obvious you've never come up against a dual AC/2 carring 'mech. My oh my are you in for a suprise, and god forbid you come up against a Cataphract with 4 AC's... Your head will probably explode all over your desk...

I have no trouble locking with ssrms. It does not take a long time in my opinion. Btw, you're not the only person who has played this game.

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For the best long harrassment, it's fun to load up 4 LRM10's, they cycle pretty fast, and unless you can break lock, you'll effectively be under an endless rain of LRMs.

Unless you use cover. Or You can get within 180m of the LRM launcher rendering them useless.

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You can only pack a maximum of 6SSRMs for a total of 12 SSRM missles in flight. Equipping AMS will certainly take care a portion of the incomming missles. Also, unless they have NOT activated chain fire, they have to maintain the missle lock all the way through the chain, otherwise subsequent missles will either still miss (as evidenced by a video I submitted earlier), or they just won't fire.

Maintaing lock is not difficult.

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No, try as you like to try and villify a weapon...

In actual fact, if you'd bothered to read and actually understand my post, I was not criticising the SSRMs for anything other than the shake they cause upon impact and the fact that 6*SSRMs can cause almost indefinite shaking on their target.

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...so that you can maintain the previously broken 'status quo',

My reason for posting was merely to point out what I consider to be a flaw in the game and to help the Devs improve it. Clearly your ability to read my mind is not as good as you would like to think it is.

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...all you've done is make weak ineffective, incomplete, and not quite true arguments against the latest fix.

The points I made were perfectly valid and were expressed without resorting to the denegration of anyone else or casting slights on their knowledge of the game. Reasonable people can discuss differences of opinion in a civilised manner - you should try it sometime.

Don't expect me to respond to any more of your posts. I have better things to do with my time.

Edited by Charles Seneca, 21 November 2012 - 01:27 PM.

[Ryvucz]

Mercules, on 21 November 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

Yes, adding up all that armor is logical thinking. I made an assumption that you were a decent pilot and spread damage out by maneuvering. That is what good pilots do. Bad pilots leave the exact same facing to someone for 3 shots allowing them to blow up one location. You mentioned dodging and weaving. So, IF you are spreading damage around your mech then the armor value of arm and torso would be relevant. If you let them shoot you in the side torso over and over without reacting then only the side armor would be relevant, but only a poor player would do that. So if my math is off because they are only shooting you in the one spot........... make the connection.

Oh, I get it. Your logical thinking only comes in three points -
I'm not a good pilot.
I'm lying, somewhere.
I'm lacking armor.

Let's all forget the SSRMs have a random spread now, but let us also forget that by random, it must be absolutely impossible for the same random to be the two side torsos.
By your "logical" thinking, that would mean one of two things, you are a liar, somehwere, or that you have no idea what you're talking about. But I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, and refuse to believe that you are a liar.
If you twist to the side, that exposes an arm, and... more side torso.

You are also skewing what I originally said, to what appears to be to make yourself look better, I mentioned side torsos, they do go at the same time as I mentioned in my first post here. But you seem to think I am relaying all sorts of falsified information.

But, being the mathematical genus that you are, do this math for me.
2 streaks are fired with a random chance to hit both side torsos (1 missile hits left torso, 1 missile hits right torso), what are the odds that 3 vollies target the side torsos, over the center torso and arms (after they made it a larger probability to hit something other than the center torso). With such a basic, and flawed mathematical deduction, I assume you can at least pull a random percentage out of how likely it is that this event COULD happen at least once.

Since you like data, and can't give a valid argument on how you achieved your logical conclusion of 40 - 30 = 10 (For different mech parts, mind you, and in different locations!) Here we go, 15% chance to hit the CT, 35% chance for the side torsos (that's 70%, I'll help you here) and 5% per arm (10%) and 5% for the head. (I like making things easy so you can show me the error of my inferior ways)

Unless of course, I strip the standard engine, and go for the XL that so many people firmly believe is the "right thing to do" so I have a higher chance of being critted. But then again, that just means I'm a bad pilot if I die at all.

So, in summary, what I've gathered from this debate, is a few of things -

1) SSRMs should be as they are without any change - I'm okay with this, given some sort of more defensive capability, ECM.
2) I'm a bad pilot for dying to streaks in a mech that has the lowest armor available.
3) My mech is obviously something other than what I claim it to be.

Am I missing anything?

[Dimento Graven]

Charles Seneca, on 21 November 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

I have no trouble locking with ssrms. It does not take a long time in my opinion. Btw, you're not the only person who has played this game.

Sure, that first lock on a target at range isn't too difficult, but once those fast light 'mechs come circling around you inside your turning and twist radius, well that, PLUS rotten netcode with fast lights swirling around at 70+kph, well, it is DAMN difficult.

Of course, if you're talking about targeting slower medium, heavy, or assault. No, you're absolutely right, not too difficult. Of course, they have the armament, and weaponry to make it NOT an easy kill.

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Unless you use cover. Or You can get within 180m of the LRM launcher rendering them useless.

Cover will shield you, if you can find good cover (though based on the ******** in the LRM threads after the quick fix it's nearly impossible, though I've never found it so) but of course if you're under cover to avoid shaking, you typically can't aim and fire at a target anyway, so ultimately the screen shake affect is ultimately greater with LRMs than SSRMs. Also, as you close in to get underneath that 180m meter mark, you're having to run open field through salvo after solvo of LRMs. Yes, the shake makes it difficult to get a "pin point" shot off, but asking for the ability to get a headshot off while under fire is asking for a bit much don't you think? Why not just get your targeting reticule centered on the blurry 'mech and let loose a few rounds. The shake affects your vision, not your weapon.

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Maintaing lock is not difficult.

See above...

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In actual fact, if you'd bothered to read and actually understand my post, I was not criticising the SSRMs for anything other than the shake they cause upon impact and the fact that 6*SSRMs can cause almost indefinite shaking on their target.

Sorry, again, you're being hit by tons of exploding, high velocity missles and losing tons of armor, sorry but you're going to shake, period.

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My reason for posting was merely to point out what I consider to be a flaw in the game and to help the Devs improve it. Clearly your ability to read my mind is not as good as you would like to think it is.

Yes, and it was properly interpreted as: "This makes my game play difficult. Please make my game play easier."

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The points I made were perfectly valid and were expressed without resorting to the denegration of anyone else or casting slights on their knowledge of the game. Reasonable people can discuss differences of opinion in a civilised manner - you should try it sometime.

Don't expect me to respond to any more of your posts. I have better things to do with my time.

Excellent, I prefer my audience respectfully silent, or at least to snore quietly.

[Red squirrel]

Dailey, on 20 November 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

From patch notes: Streaks (SSRMs) are now going to hit 100% of the time. Are you kidding me, nothing should hit 100%. I guess now we will be playing SSRM online instead of LRM online. Who would want to play anything else now?

And yet they still do not hit 100% of the time.
I just had this hillarious game where my SSRMs were flying circles around a Phract.
I think they circled it about 3 times.

[xCopperhead]

I am going with the group about the OP streak cats again. The problem is that if you are moving at low speed all of the missiles now hit your torso again, and do more damage than they did before. We had 2 streak cats on the snow map completely destroy 3 hunchbacks and an atlas when they were coming out of the tunnel.

Now, they were well piloted I won't discount that. But the problem is that with the buffed damage and the all torso they got probably buffed too far back the other way. The 50% miss rate they seemed to have at times before was a problem yes. But they were doing reduced damage before because they were missing. PGI needs to learn to fix one thing at a time. Or at least test the streaks in something other than a Jenner v Jenner fight. The Streak didn't need to do more damage, that was fine, it just needed to actually hit the mech instead of random pieces of dirt.

[kaeh]

I just wanted to say something about, but every time i reload the page, there is 2 more pages and seriously, since i'm not like the robot from the movie 'Short circuit' can't read that fast.

Anyway, now that the thing seems to have stopped, remind that the one of the things that SSRM were designed in TT in game terms, was to do not heat if they dont hit, not to save ammo or so.

If you want to stay close to the TT spirit of the weapon, remove the lock on and make that the weapon dont fire if you are not manuallly aiming at the mech (and having reticle over it), so then make all the missiles hit but randomly in all locations.

No one notices that a merely support weapon like it really is, with a TT damage of 4 (5 here) is taking down mechs as it was a primary weapon like a PPC? Wouldnt you see strange that a mech with 8 small lasers could take down mechs in 4-5 rounds?

I've played TT for more than 20 years and SSRM2 has never been a primary weapon on any mech. If it is right now, thats cause something is wrong. Its fine that LRMs are primary weapons on mech builds, but SSRM2?? If they were SSRM6 I will change my mind, but really, 2s??

Edited by kaeh, 21 November 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[Jyi]

Ok, so I ran into a new phenomenom today: the Streakapult who chainfires SSRM2's. I think it was 2x SSRM2 being fired at a time, constantly, flashing and rocking my cockpit so it was absolutely impossible to shoot back and hit anything.

This can't be intended. There's no way to win a brawl versus a Catapult like this in any other setup. My cockpit is rocking like there were 5 mechs constantly shooting me with big autocannons.

This needs to be hotfixed or we'll just see another wave of Streakapult bs like in the first open beta patch.

[Agent Mohsen]

Jyi, on 21 November 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Ok, so I ran into a new phenomenom today: the Streakapult who chainfires SSRM2's. I think it was 2x SSRM2 being fired at a time, constantly, flashing and rocking my cockpit so it was absolutely impossible to shoot back and hit anything.

This can't be intended. There's no way to win a brawl versus a Catapult like this in any other setup. My cockpit is rocking like there were 5 mechs constantly shooting me with big autocannons.

This needs to be hotfixed or we'll just see another wave of Streakapult bs like in the first open beta patch.

Honestly, I understand your plea. However, you should be coordinating with your team to have someone with you... The streak cats are not impossible to beat. even now.

[Taron]

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I think it was 2x SSRM2 being fired at a time,

You THINK or you KNOW?

Edited by Taron, 21 November 2012 - 06:00 PM.

[Jyi]

Taron, on 21 November 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

You THINK or you KNOW?

How the hell could I see anything clearly in that barrage of fireworks? I THINK, I saw 2 missiles heading towards me at a time, but it was a damn blur and the pult was shooting them so fast. Do 3x2 SSRM2's cycle so fast that you can be hit by the next volley before the previous hit's cockpit shake animation has even finished? Because that's what it was.

[Ryvucz]

I feel your pain. Let the anger flow thro... wait, wrong universe.

[Grugore]

My team ran into a streak cat earlier today. I was scouting and told my team to focus fire on it. It didn't last ten seconds. You deal with this the way you deal with anything in this game. Superior teamwork and tactics. If the people you are playing with can't play well enough to do this, then you might just want to find another game to play. Or join a group.

Edited by Grugore, 21 November 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[Ronin Cahill]

I have been able to dodge streaks fine with my jenner moving 140+ KPH. just observe the attack angle of the firing mech and move 45 degrees to fire angle then turn sharp into the fire and they hit ground behind you. i have taken several c1 streak boats down with my jenner with 6 small lasers. Heh those C1's know who im talking about. yuk yuk. Moshpunk has had the same success as me, only hes a better pilot and iot works better for him.
Ronin