336 replies to this topic

[Jyi]

I don't understand why my thread was even merged into this. I was criticizing the cockpit shaking and fireworks that SSRM's cause, not the 100% accuracy.

I don't care if SSRM'***** (nice going with word censoring here too... was trying to type the letter 's' and then the word 'hit' after that) 100% of time, as long as their damage is way lower than SRM's and they don't make my fricking cockpit shake like I'm in an earthquake. A weapon that locks on isn't supposed to be better in every aspect than a weapon that doesn't, otherwise there's no need for SRM's and everyone can just flail around with their streakboats.

Edited by Jyi, 22 November 2012 - 02:14 PM.

[Thomas Dziegielewski]

BTW I'm an engineer.

[Isking]

I use a Raven 3L with 2 streak launchers and 2 medium pulse lasers. I've used this since the 3L came out. I've always used a streak launcher in my lights because it is more effective against other lights than the regular SRMs. Trust me I tried regular SRMs with Artemis in an attempt to see if I could trim a ton off my fit and that was a failure. Streaks are only "overpowered" when someone is boating them. And honestly that is what I see in most QQ threads. People complaining about 1 chassis ability to mount a ton of one weapon. The streak 2 works as intended and is perfect for its task. Taking down light mechs and doing reliable damage to larger ones to supplement your other weapons. Here's something to think about since I don't like to do math. How much damage do you get per ton of ammo for different weapon types? I haven't seen anything comparing that and was just wondering since you are all complaining about weapon balance.

[Heroth]

Been playing since a couple months into closed beta, piloting Catapults almost exclusively in almost all configurations.

So, please, no don't nerf Streak-cats or Gaussapults, because i've got both elited now and they are hilarious, nothing more funny than watching people try and run from my 84kph Streak-cat.

But talking seriously here for a second... you claim that Streaks no longer only hit the CT, which is true! they no longer Exclusively hit the CT like they did before that first nerf but i'd say a large majority still does, atleast %90... every time i've gone up against a Streak-cat since the supposed 'nerf' i've died from being CT-cored and conversely *almost* everytime i've killed someone in my Streak-cat its been a CT-core.

Clearly they are not spreading enough. I understand they 'hotfix' to make sure they once again hit everytime, thats the entire point of SSRM's but something obviously went wrong along the way because within normal streak-cat engagement ranges, they simply hit the CT almost exclusively, and in conjunction with that, at normal streak-cat engagement ranges AMS does little to *nothing* against SSRM's...

and for anyone suggesting 'its okay because Cat's aren't front line mechs, so they die easily in a brawl!' you are either straight up *lying* or seriously have never faced a streak-cat. While Catapults might not have the staying power of an Atlas, they out class it easily with Speed and fairly hard to hit Side torso's, not to mention you can fully Armour the Streak-cat Build ensuring you can stay in the fight long enough to put extreme pain on the enemy mechs and still have enough back-armour left to disengage and seek help from Team-mates.

And thats only from the point of view of a Catapult with streaks.

I mean, as a Catapult pilot i don't want to see streaks nerfed into the ground but i'd like to see some semblance of balance attributed to them.

[HydroSqueegee]

well AMS would work on streaks, but how often are other Mechs (especially streak cats) not right in your face? nothing is going to get shot down.

each individual missile in each salvo need a chance of hitting any location, even the legs. streaks spread all over the target, not just the torsos and arms. maybe even impliment a 30m minimum range to fire or you take blowback damage. hell, that would be nice for all srms.

[zeninsight]

i really do enjoy the spirit of OP shouting and nerfing.. 5 months from now all of us will fighting with flamer and MG.. or maybe from tree trunk (like the comic suggest) since everytime a player getting killed they will scream OP to about just anything

[Hakkukakt]

then on the same idea .. a light standing under 30 m behind the target must be receive too a blowback damage when the target explode no ?

[TobSto]

Pvt Dancer, on 20 November 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

No, that is not how they are suppose to work. They are suppose to still miss, but if you hit, both missiles hit. They are not suppose to hit the same location either.

The current problem is that they auto hit every time you fire (they can not be 'dumb fired') and they hit in the same location. The more streaks you pack on, the more damage to that same location every time. This makes them more powerful than any other weapon in the game, because a AC 20 or Gauss still misses and doesn't hit the same location every time, specially if both shooter and target are moving. This is not even touching upon ammo per ton in comparison.

If you want to fix Streaks, first off, get rid of the lock. It has to be treated the same as a normal SRM. Infact, the worse weapon in the game right now is the SRM 2 because the Streak is that much better than it for only half a ton difference. Let them miss, but if they do hit, both missiles hit (unlike the SRM 2). Ammo reduction is also an option and scattering the streaks over the target is another option.

Either way, something has to be done, and fast.

I totally agree with that.
4-6 SSRM2 in one Mech are way to much. And to say "Just run away" is quit stupid. Most Mechs are not fast enough to get away before taking serious damage to the torso. And the ones who are fast enough are so lightly armored that they are still heavily damaged or destroyed.
Two things I would like to see changed. First let the missles spread over the whole mech.
Second change the way how they are aimed. Get rid of the lrm reticle and make it work something like this. You have a normal crosshair and when you pulll the trigger the system checks if there was amech in sight. If so the weapons is fired and both rockets hit. If not the weapon is not fired but still needs 1 to 2 seconds to recalibrate. Then it is like the tt version.
Well that is mo but I hope it will be fixed in some way.

Edited by TobSto, 22 November 2012 - 04:35 PM.

[Joe Luck]

Hi. I'm normally a Jenner pilot but I've been cheesing lately with a streakapult to get money. Before this patch I was venturing into other mechs.... Now?

I noticed with streaks on a streakapult....

• locked on even if I didn't have my reticule over the mech.
  
• Even when not locked but sometimes I fire and they track...
  
• Looks like visibly two missiles come out of my mech when I fire.
  
• hit the center area about 90% of the time.
  
• I have tonnage I have to figure out what to do with...
  
• I can wade in amongst many other mechs quite fast and cause massive havoc. Yes a good team will shoot me down but I've usually taken another mech out and either stripped armor off a bunch of others or hurt them pretty bad.
  
• I sometimes can shoot behind me.
  
• I can jump swivel and shoot an enemy.
  
• I only tend to fear other streakapults.
  
• I can get c-bills pretty quick using it
  
• I'm now just a bigger Squirrel and love it. i'm not afraid of two Cataphracts and an Atlas like I should be.
  
• I can do this well just pugging. If I'm in a group then my games go much quicker with the enemy focused on killing me while friendly's are moving in getting back shots.
  
• 900+ damage games!!!
  
• Commando's go pop!! It's so much fun. Need to make a video of it....

Now with that said. I liked how streaks worked before the latest patch. I could use them successfully in my Jenner but it required skill. I was afraid of a streakapult but only mildly. Not crap my pants like now. I know a streak buff hurts lights because they are hard to kill due to lag.

Ways they can fix the current issues multiple ways....

• Put streaks back to way they were last patch(with maybe the current .1 damage boost).
  
• Make the Streaks come out of the catapult all separated instead of looking like two missiles and acting like two missles.
  
• Put knockdown back, so much bad piloting lately. It's the cause of half of the warping.
  
• Work on the netcode.
  
• Maybe make streaks a lock dependable weapon like LRMS. You have to have reticule on the mech for it to follow. Heck make streaks guided by reticule.
  
• Fix Ballistic firing.
  
• People need to learn to Lag Shoot.

My two cents...

Edited by Joe Luck, 22 November 2012 - 10:11 PM.

[ManDaisy]

They could also fix AMS as it doesn't do squat versus streaks.

[MustrumRidcully]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 22 November 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

BTW I'm an engineer.

That means you're not the systems designer that is responsible for balance? I am never sure with the nomenclature on game software projects...

[Lon3Wo1f]

I didn't see my streaks hitting 100% last night. I was attacking a Hunchback that was standing still on the enemy cap point and using my speed to avoid death. I ran in a line to get to some cover past him while aiming straight at him and fired my two steaks. One hit centre torso and the other completely missed hitting a nearby building. Given the short range of streaks and the fact I was probably around 150m away at most I was stunned but it kept happening. In the end I had to run because he stripped my front CT armour and damaged my internals.

Has anyone else noticed this or just me?

[Calmon]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 22 November 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

Ok I've been given the green light to finally post things. Soooo many misconceptions. I'll start with this thread because I was quite proud of what I did with them!

Thanks for the answers Thomas! I'm really happy the brains behind the talking peopele are allowed to speak with us.

Few things about sSRM because I use them in my Atlas:

I use Artemis, something which shouldn't influencing sSRM BUT I indeed have a longer kept lock time after losing my target, I also feel locking targets as fast as I would do with Artemis-LRM. I probably can even fire faster than without Artemis. So it seems I can use my sSRM with a big part of the artemis advantage without any disadvantage (tons/slots/higher Ammunition costs). Can you answer if I'm correct or not?

The other question is regarding LRMs. Is there any possible chance to make them on doubled Cooldown and also increase damage (don't need be doubled because we need less ammunition with hour mech)? It would have the effect the ammunition costs wouldn't be so incredible high, we can also spend some tons for other things. It would strengthen smaller LRM systems because you could fire 1xLRM10 for a bit more damage before just going in closer range. All in all it would make things better, its even more realistic when rockets have a far higher reload time (cooldown) than an AC.

Thanks.

Edited by Calmon, 23 November 2012 - 05:37 AM.

[Kobura]

Ninja Snarl, on 22 November 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Interesting read, considering streaks still core for every kill, which means they're still going for the CT.

Also find this very interesting (it's this designer's profile).
http://mwomercs.com/...-dziegielewski/

TAG COMMANDO
COM-2D
STREAK SRM2 x3
TAG LASER
STANDARD 145 ENGINE
11 HEATSINKS

Basically, claims of streak "balance" from somebody sporting a light mech (so it has enormous lag armor) and boating streaks plus TAG. Certainly no conflict of interest there.

I imagine that if he were on the other end of constant public matches against streak boats where you can't see thanks to insane cockpit rocking and get repeatedly cored via 100%-accurate CT-targeted missiles, the claims might be different. I've been playing since near the beginning of the closed beta and the streaks are anything but balanced, or even close to it.

Also important to point out that AMS dealing with SSRMs means a certain amount of distant involved and that only one streak is getting fired and they need a second of travel time. Considering the number of Streak Cats that run with an XL engine and charge right into your face, AMS almost never gets the chance to shoot down more than a few streaks and then it's game over.

If you're going to be livid, you've got to do your homework. Fortunately I know the subject material. From the top:

I've driven a Streakmando. Both before and after the all-streaks-hit phase. They don't CT seek. Before, they didn't CT seek either. However, as a skilled 'Mando pilot, I crawled into the enemy's stationary/distracted backside, let loose, and skidaddled away. I've killed a brawling Awesome from undamaged rear/internals due to getting away with this repeatedly. If I fired from more than ~10m away there'd be no way they all hit center torso (or at the particular point in time, hit at all!)

Second: A 145 engine on a Commando is the equivalent of hmm 145/25: a little less than 6/9 tabletop movement, so under 9*10.8 (10.8 is the TT-to-realtime conversion factor) = almost 100KPH ... what's that, it goes slower than a Dragon with a 360 engine? Woops. (360 engine rating/60tons=full 6/9 tabletop movement for 98KPH)

It's true that Streaks move insanely fast and are thereby resistant to AMS, but if they didn't, you'd see Lights outrunning them with impunity. Possible answer: make AMS more effective and also consume more ammunition (give it less endurance than some intelligently-chosen tonnage of enemy LRMs), or make AMS more effective against Streak missiles in general (I don't think this is possible without raising its' overall productivity [and neutering LRMs] though)

Also a Streakcat can mount nigh-full armor, a 315 STANDARD engine, six streaks, and all the ammunition they need. No XL need apply. I highly recommend you just dummy-build these designs that you hate so much to see what the enemy has to work with, and maybe you can discover their limitations. I did it with K2 AC40cats/Gausscats, it was enlightening.

[Dimento Graven]

Well after a few days of Cataphract battle, I'm suprised this thread is still even as active as it is. I take it most of you have failed to come up against a quad-AC/2, or quad-AC/5 Cataphract build?

I can tell you from personal experience the cockpit shake from the AC/2 or AC/5 feels much more signficiant.

I fight streak cats regularly. The trick is to break lock or get behind the streak cat.

The QuadACaphract (I'm TM/Copy righting that, it's MY invention, I want a nickel every time someone uses the word), the QuadACaphract© has the distinct advantage of range over the SSRM, and also firing WELL beyond its targetable range as well. PLUS, there appears to be a very big bug in the 'splash' damage of various AC rounds, where I can see the rounds explode on the ground in far front or around me, but I still take significant damage, and the damage is silent, no bangs in my 'mech, or cockpit rattle at all, just 'stealth' damage that can kill you if you're focusing on aiming on a far target, not looking at your paper doll..

Yet you guys are all on about streakapaults?

Anyway, I've not noticed streak boats coming away with thousands of damage, and 5 kills per match.

In the end, it still seems pretty balanced, very rarely do I see anyone with more than 2 kills per match. It happens, I've seen one match where an Atlas got 6 kills, but it was one of those instances where the Atlas pilot was AFK until the last part of the match and the enemy team, all battered to crap and back came up to him, and he one shots 3 or 4 of 'em before they even know what's going on.

Do we need to nerf the 'playing possum affect' too?

Edited by Dimento Graven, 23 November 2012 - 08:20 AM.

[USMC Iceman]

Dailey, on 20 November 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

From patch notes: Streaks (SSRMs) are now going to hit 100% of the time. Are you kidding me, nothing should hit 100%. I guess now we will be playing SSRM online instead of LRM online. Who would want to play anything else now?

Said over and over on this post " they sill miss if they fly into something like a hill, building or other players. And if you want a game of lasers to the face at 50m all day this is not that type of game. You can play that way if you like but it again is not the only weapon in the box. The best weapon is team work. But we see that they will "Nurf" this too to make people happy so I guess keep making post like this.

Dimento Graven, on 23 November 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

Well after a few days of Cataphract battle, I'm suprised this thread is still even as active as it is. I take it most of you have failed to come up against a quad-AC/2, or quad-AC/5 Cataphract build?

I can tell you from personal experience the cockpit shake from the AC/2 or AC/5 feels much more signficiant.

I fight streak cats regularly. The trick is to break lock or get behind the streak cat.

The QuadACaphract (I'm TM/Copy righting that, it's MY invention, I want a nickel every time someone uses the word), the QuadACaphract© has the distinct advantage of range over the SSRM, and also firing WELL beyond its targetable range as well. PLUS, there appears to be a very big bug in the 'splash' damage of various AC rounds, where I can see the rounds explode on the ground in far front or around me, but I still take significant damage, and the damage is silent, no bangs in my 'mech, or cockpit rattle at all, just 'stealth' damage that can kill you if you're focusing on aiming on a far target, not looking at your paper doll..

Yet you guys are all on about streakapaults?

Anyway, I've not noticed streak boats coming away with thousands of damage, and 5 kills per match.

In the end, it still seems pretty balanced, very rarely do I see anyone with more than 2 kills per match. It happens, I've seen one match where an Atlas got 6 kills, but it was one of those instances where the Atlas pilot was AFK until the last part of the match and the enemy team, all battered to crap and back came up to him, and he one shots 3 or 4 of 'em before they even know what's going on.

Do we need to nerf the 'playing possum affect' too?

They need to post about how the damage is counted, I " Think " that I have seen my damage spike when I blow up a mech from a ammo hit. This is were I see 700+ damage from any play. But I can't find anywhere a post on how damage is counted during a fight.

[Need4Fail]

Nerf the whining instead. It's too OP and I getting sick of it.

SSRM are fine. There's several more OP weapons out there. An streak cat have a lot of weaknesses. Just build one and try it.

[Thorn Blackwell]

superbob, on 20 November 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

I hope that was just a figure of speech, as in, they will hit 100% if you fire them from optimal range at an immobile target, and all will hit some part of the mech (instead of at least 40% missing under any circumstances, as it was in prev patch).

That said, the devs must like them streak cats, fixing streak trajectories, damage and allowing BAP to target shutdown mechs. OTOH, good luck on getting a server-authoritative lock, assuming it is going to suffer from lag-shield as normal weapons do.

Sorry, streak srms were designed not to fire unless a hit was definite. So it's not the devs ... that's the game. If you can hide behind something in the short time it takes to get to you then you may be saved.

[LtPoncho]

Need4Fail, on 23 November 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

Nerf the whining instead. It's too OP and I getting sick of it.

SSRM are fine. There's several more OP weapons out there. An streak cat have a lot of weaknesses. Just build one and try it.

Really eh? Seems like it's SSRM Online lately.The best way to play this game is keep whatever Mech is OP in your bay and pull it out at the right time.

[Timbar]

I like the SSRMS just how they are.