336 replies to this topic

[EvangelionUnit]

Snib, on 21 November 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

Exactly. Since it's you saying there is a problem, let's see that video.

what do you think its harder to get ? a vid where someone is r4ped from 4 streak cats ? or a vid where someone owns 4 streak cats alone ... guess what dude

[Mercules]

Ryvucz, on 21 November 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

Check my edit above.

Wouldn't it have been easier to post it here?

Yes the arm goes with the Torso. Even so your Torso has 15-9 or some balance between the two front and back. If you are letting someone shoot your back you deserve to be cored and that falls under "Pilot Error". So assuming those streaks hit ONLY your side torso and you have at least 9 then yes you could lose those, but it would not be "common" and would mean you let him hit you there instead of twisting so he hit your arms... which is the whole reason I talked about the arms.

Bad Pilot not spreading damage = bad pilot. Yes streaks are potent right now, but not as much as you are inflating them to be.

[SuperPuppy]

I agree.

I definitely like where SSRM 2s are now.

However, I am worried about how it'll be when SSRM 6s are released.

They might swat lights far too easily with 6 missiles.

But as it stands now, SSRM 2s give you enough of a fighting chance in close range without going overboard with the number of missles.

[Chuckie]

Sorry they still miss a LOT.. not as bad as pre-patch.. but they still miss. I think as far as teh Missles themselves are concerned they are about right. The real problem is the Streak Cat abuse of them.

So again.. To Balance the StreakCat there is a simple solution.. add .5 to the weight of each SSRM2 (Making them 2T vs 1.5T) Won't affect smaller mechs that use 1 or 2 streaks, but those with 3 or more (Including Streak Commando) would have to either trim armor, heat sinks or ammo. In the case of the StreakCat, 3 tons would be a big hit..

Nerfing the missles themselves would just hurt balance for a LOT of mechs..

[Snib]

EvangelionUnit, on 21 November 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

what do you think its harder to get ? a vid where someone is r4ped from 4 streak cats ? or a vid where someone owns 4 streak cats alone ... guess what dude

Which was exactly my point, so thanks for the support. Unless you were trying to unsuccessfully jump onto Straylight's troll wagon I suppose.

[Ryvucz]

Mercules, on 21 November 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

Wouldn't it have been easier to post it here?

Yes the arm goes with the Torso. Even so your Torso has 15-9 or some balance between the two front and back. If you are letting someone shoot your back you deserve to be cored and that falls under "Pilot Error". So assuming those streaks hit ONLY your side torso and you have at least 9 then yes you could lose those, but it would not be "common" and would mean you let him hit you there instead of twisting so he hit your arms... which is the whole reason I talked about the arms.

Bad Pilot not spreading damage = bad pilot. Yes streaks are potent right now, but not as much as you are inflating them to be.

I am in awe of your infinite wisdom, and insults to my person. You sir, are one of a kind. Let's not forget my original post and how I pilot.

[Taron]

I agree. Streaks are now as they should be. Same on U-AC/5.

[MustrumRidcully]

Straylight, on 21 November 2012 - 06:34 AM, said:

Except that most MW/BT guys will see "Scat" and read it as "Shadow Cat".



The problem here really isn't Streaks. They're fine, fulfilling their role as a Light 'Mech deterrent and chaser. The problem is the Catapult A1. There's simply no damned good reason to give the thing 6 missile hardpoints when that's nowhere near necessary for the chassis to do its job.

So you're saying a mech is OP because he can equip 6 of one weapon? THe Jenner can boat 6 Lasers, the Hunchback can boat 9 lasers. And yet, people are complaining about the Streak Cat?

Why you believe the number of hard points is the problem, and not the weapon that you put in that hardpoint?

If weapons were balanced, a powerful weapon would weigh proportionaly more than a low powered weapon, allowing you to either "boat" low powered weapons or equip less high powered weapons, with similar end results.

But that's not what we see here, is it?

[AC]

Guys.... We are playing MWO not Hawken. It should take awhile to down a mech. UAC5 and Streaks now kill mechs in no time. if that is your prefered play style, go play Hawken.

[Banditman]

Disagree. SSRM are currently OP, by a not insignificant amount.

[Taron]

Quote

UAC5 and Streaks now kill mechs in no time.

That's not true. My dual U-AC/5-Cata does not have a chance against one with an AC/20 in close combat - if the pilot is good. The game just changed a bit, and we all have to think about other variants of the mech(s) - but in fact: the Trial Mech still WORK! As long as a trial mech is able to shot down others, all is OK.

[Corvus Antaka]

on the fence still. maybe a little OP..but im not convinced. more a boating problem than a weapon problem , and this applies to other guns/configs like dual gauss too.

mechs that are reliant on 1 weapon system need a disadvantage to counter balance the heavy advantage 1 weapon system gives perhaps?

[Pando]

A great situation weapon. People say "Have you ever faced 4 SSRM cats? Yes, have you ever faced any 4 of the same build ** No matter what the build it will always do well if 1/2 of your team is comprised of it **.

I like where they are now, before they were "ok" but i really hated missing atlas targets standing still @ 50m.

[machinech]

Disagree. SSRM are currently where they should be, after a fair bit of up and down. Yes many light pilots are "unhappy" but then this is Mechwarrior. Granted it's not TT rules, but you'd have to be fibbing a bit if you could look someone in the eye and say that lights aren't a bit prolific. I like them mind you, but SSRM's are the one thing beyond luck an great shooting skills keeping them in ANY sort of check. When they finally put lights into some sort of balance that requires them to do with skill what they achieve now with a simple engine upgrade and full throttle, then I'll put away the streaks.

[Mawai]

Well ... I realize that this is a thread supporting the SSRM changes ... but unfortunately I just can't agree at this point.

I just played through a match using my 4 missile launcher cat with 2 MPL. I was using 4xSRM6 earlier today and results were mixed - it was challenging to do decent damage and the damage was spread out over the entire mech. I switched the 4xSRM6 to 4xSSRM2 and the difference was staggering. Damage was consistently being done to the CT - either front or back - depending on the target facing ... in some circumstances I would hit other parts if the target happened to turn at exactly the correct moment but in general all the missiles hit and they hit the same part of the mech. 8 missiles hitting center torso is much much better than 24 being launched ... 12 hitting and those distributed over legs, arms, and 3 torso sections.

In addition, AMS did not seem to be as effective as previously against SSRM ... though that was hard to quantify.

Finally, since SSRMs are so light - the catapults and other mechs equipped with them have a lot of tonnage available for heavier engines ... this makes them faster than many other mechs ... so they are harder to hit and staying out of their range is more difficult if not impossible for most opponents.

So ... my feedback at the moment would be that SSRMs are not appropriately balanced. In addition, almost every mech with a missile hard point is now fitting SSRMs which is an additional indication that they are out of line.

[Mercules]

Ryvucz, on 21 November 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

I am in awe of your infinite wisdom, and insults to my person. You sir, are one of a kind. Let's not forget my original post and how I pilot.

My experience was very different than yours last night. I was successful against Jenners using SSRM 2s. I can only posit that you are "doing something wrong". Your posts have been less than forthcoming with information among all the sarcasm towards people attempting to make suggestions to HELP YOU based upon your very limited descriptions. Sorry if you feel insulted by being told you dying when I wasn't meant something was wrong with your mech or piloting. Has to be the weapon that I also faced and didn't have the same problems with... not you or your mech design.

[Jirobu]

I pilot a streak cat as one of my 3 capapults, it certainly has its advantages with being able to hit fast moving lights and mediums reliably and negates lagshield. However it does have its disadvantages, I have to be smart on where I move because of my short maximum range of 270m. There have been several times where I was locked down in cover by AC/Gauss and was simply not able to advance into range and therefore not able to deal any damage. Although If I am able to get into range of an enemy mech generally I am going to have the upper hand. If I am Vs a light/medium I am going to win, but most heavies would in this situation. If I am Vs a heavy or assault I need to use my piloting skills and jump jets to maneuver constantly in order to stay alive. I simply cannot stand there and go toe to toe with a heavy/assault because the DPS of 6 SSRM2's is only about 8. Any other mech with equivalent tonnage should be able to out DPS me no problem. Also even with the modules and BAP, I need to stare at you for a couple seconds before I can fire. You should always be able to get the first shot off and slipping behind cover makes me lose lock.

[Dimento Graven]

I'm posting all the data from all the matches I have FRAPs for.

I started FRAP'ing my matches because after the 'quick fix' I wanted to prove how f'd up missles became. Some of this is data I've already posted, but I'm posting again, more complete so that you can review and make your own judgements:

Here's some actual data, and I can provide screen shots of the match ending if you like, to prove my data is factual.
These starts are just from piloting my Catapult A1, LRM15x2, Streakx4, I consider myself an 'average gunner' at best, and an 'above average pilot':

2012-11-15:
Catapult A1 - Victory - 49 - 0 - 1
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 174 - 0 - 3
Catapult A1 - Victory - 158 - 0 - 3
Catapult A1 - Victory - 380 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 227 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 235 - 1 - 6
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 31 - 1 - 0
Catapult A1 - Victory - 260 - 1 - 7
Catapult A1 - Victory - 64 - 0 - 0
Catapult A1 - Victory - 205 - 0 - 4
Catapult A1 - Victory - 202 - 0 - 6
Catapult A1 - Victory - 236 - 2 - 4
Total kills 5, average damage 185.08

2012-11-17:
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 175 - 0 - 0
Catapult A1 - Victory - 384 - 3 - 3
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 127 - 0 - 0
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 254 - 1 - 1
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 40 - 0 - 1
Catapult A1 - Victory - 359 - 1 - 3
Catapult A1 - Victory - 101 - 0 - 3
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 61 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 186 - 0 - 3
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 204 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 228 - 1 - 1
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 263 - 1 - 0
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 204 - 1 - 1
Catapult A1 - victory - 112 - 0 - 5
Catapult A1 - Victory - 40 - 0 - 0
Catapult A1 - Victory - 446 - 0 - 7
Catapult A1 - Victory - 216 - 1 - 1
Catapult A1 - Victory - 172 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 191 - 0 - 1
Total kills 9, average damage 198.05

2012-11-18:
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 187 - 1 - 0
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 40 - 0 - 0
Catapult A1 - Victory - 45 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 295 - 0 - 5
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 42 - 0 - 1
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 240 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 353 - 1 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 167 - 0 - 3
Catapult A1 - Victory - 176 - 1 - 3
Catauplt A1 - Victory - 141 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 218 - 1 - 3
Catapult A1 - Victory - 44 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 258 - 0 - 4
Catapult A1 - victory - 530 - 1 - 5
Catapult A1 - Victory - 327 - 0 - 6
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 61 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 148 - 0 - 0
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 445 - 1 - 5
Catapult A1 - Victory - 266 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 80 - 0 - 3
Catapult A1 - Victory - 73 - 0 - 3
Catapult A1 - Victory - 199 - 1 - 3
Catapult A1 - Victory - 130 - 0 - 3
Catapult A1 - Victory - 364 - 2 - 6
Catapult A1 - Tied - 227 - 1 - 3
Total kills 10, average damage 202.24

2012-11-19:
Catapult A1 - Victory - 242 - 0 - 6
Catapult A1 - Victory - 412 - 0 - 7
Catapult A1 - Victory - 238 - 1 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 218 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 177 - 0 - 2
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 52 - 0 - 0
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 124 - 1 - 1
Catapult A1 - Victory - 330 - 0 - 4
Total kills 2, average damage 224.13

2012-11-20:
Catapult A1 - Victory - 266 - 2 - 2
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 601 - 1 - 1
Catapult A1 - Victory - 677 - 2 - 5
Catapult A1 - Victory - 151 - 0 - 3
Catapult A1 - Victory - 278 - 1 - 0
Catapult A1 - Victory - 296 - 2 - 2
Catapult A1 - Victory - 212 - 1 - 4
Catapult A1 - Defeat - 137 - 0 - 3
Catapult A1 - Victory - 575 - 2 - 4
Total Kills 11, average damage 354.7

They have obviously tweaked missle damage, all missle damage I'd guess, but not all that much. I suspect last night's damage increase was partially due to all the new Cataphracts and people's attempts at experimenting with them (heck, a lot of last night's data not shown was from my own attemps ), and once people find workable builds or learn the quirks of Cataphract piloting, that number might change. I'll FRAPs and keep track tonight when I play and we'll see...

But again, I see nothing wrong. This actually NORMALIZES, aka, BALANCES, missle boats with the majority of 'mechs out there now.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 21 November 2012 - 10:28 AM.

[Taron]

So what? Unable to move?

[machinech]

Relax folks...are SSRM boats owners creaming themselves, yes. It's the same in EVERY mmo... class/item/whatever gets a buff, an you see said item EVERYWHERE till the flavor of the month club starts to run out of hand cream. This too shall pass. Cataphracts everywhere, check...ssrms in numbers enough to make the director of the 300 proud...check. It's like goldfish, wait till someone sprinkles some new "chum" and they'll all flock to that an we can start the OMGWTFBBQ about that.