30 replies to this topic

[Comguard]

Today was strange. Just played one match, first after patch to check if it is working.

My team: seven mechs, I was the only founder.

Enemy: 8 mechs, 4 founders. Map was forest.

My team: "Comguard, scout the cave."

Com: "Ok."

Team: "And?"

Com: "The graphics all glitchy, I can't see anything..."

We won 8:0. No. Idea. What happened.

[Bilbo]

The issue is not map or team sizes. There is no respawn, so once you lose any firepower it is gone forever. If the lost firepower contributed little to no damage on the opposing team, its that much worse. Once their ranking system is implemented in the match making process and teams are matched equally based on combat effectiveness, it may get better.

[Applecrow]

FIRST: If you drop in a trial mech, you should only drop against other trial mechs. (Eventually Stock mechs as well, but trial-only mechs shouldn't be too hard to code)

SECOND: If you are in a group or an owned/custom mech, you go into the big boy/girl queue.

[Agent of Change]

Daemian, on 21 November 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

Well not every game but pretty damn close.

I either win or lose 8-0. Best case games the winning team lost 2 guys.

I think it's because the teams are so small. Whoever gets the first kill has a huge advantage. And if you start the game with a disco or farmer then your even more likely to give up that first kill and then subsequently lose.

Playing in a group I am more likely to win than when I pug but the scores are still the same. 8-0.

Gee I wish someone had predicted this totally unforseeable outcome. If only a large portion of the MWO community had said something about the core issues plaguing the game and balance and those had been addressed aggressively instead of chasing an imaginary boogie man that was only a symptom and not the problem itself. But alas nobody in the community had the foresite to start even a single discussion pointing out actual potential solutions to the actual problems. /sarcasm

Is all seriousness, the issue has a lot to do with a number of dynamics:

• custom mech v. Trial mech
  
• 'Optomized' mech v. simple customised mech
  
• Experienced player v. Newbie
  
• Players intent on going solo v. Players willing to organize (not speaking to premie or pug just willingness to work as an active part of a team what ever form it takes)
  
• People that actually want to play the game v. Griefers/farmers
  
• Good ping v. Bad Ping

All of the above are a factor in any pure pug team and some are mitigated by premade teams depending on their approach, but will still be present in their opponent unless it is also premade. The more elements you have towards the left side of those equations the more likely to win and because the battles are so small anything more than a small advantage can snow ball into a full on wipe out.

Those dynamics are further hurt/could be fixed by resolving the following issues

• Proper matchmaking
  
• Proper tutorial in the way the game is now (no need to add anything like say 3rd person as a crutch)
  
• Solid heat balance that doesn't Neuter trial mechs
  
• fixing the net code/lag issue
  
• this thread: http://mwomercs.com/...ser-experience/

[Sevaradan]

Needed to create a "this pub stomp brought to you courtesy of PGI not bringing back 8 man groups" macro last night got sick of having to manually type it every match. Spent most of last night spreading the hate with the pugglings, hopefully if we can make em cry to PGI enough they'll bring back 8 man groups next patch.

Edited by Sevaradan, 21 November 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[Agent of Change]

Sevaradan, on 21 November 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

Needed to create a "this pub stomp brought to you courtesy of PGI not bringing back 8 man groups" macro last night go sick of having to manually type it every match. Spent most of last night spreading the hate with the pugglings hopefully if we can make em cry to PGI enough they'll bring back 8 man groups next patch.

No, sadly i think the reaction would finally be that team work is truly OP and they would stop us from grouping at all.

[Imagine Dragons]

hood, on 21 November 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

OMG 12 man groups? Can u imagine.. 8 man teams and 4 puggers...(yes they would still *****). So the 8 man would have to turn on the puggers.. Once the puggers are gone, whats left of the 2 8 man teams fight it out.

You make the silly assumption that group sizes will scale up to 8 in 12v12.

In the same podcast that Russ discussed 3rd person view, he also said that PGI is testing 12v12...

He also compared the group sizes in WoT's RBQ and MWO's RBQ, and stated that the 4 player groups in 12v12 will not have as much power as they did in 8v8, like how a 3 player group doesn't have a large controlling influence in WoT's 15v15...


TL;DR

You're wrong, group size will remain the same (4) in 12v12.

Edited by XenomorphZZ, 21 November 2012 - 10:45 AM.

[Sevaradan]

Agent of Change, on 21 November 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

No, sadly i think the reaction would finally be that team work is truly OP and they would stop us from grouping at all.

Judging from the past experience w PGI that's entirely possible lol. So either they'll fix it or it'll be an undeniable sign to move on to a new game LOL.

[wanderer]

Bilbo, on 21 November 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

The issue is not map or team sizes. There is no respawn, so once you lose any firepower it is gone forever. If the lost firepower contributed little to no damage on the opposing team, its that much worse. Once their ranking system is implemented in the match making process and teams are matched equally based on combat effectiveness, it may get better.

Right now, it's simply that random team-mates are gonna be random.

I've seen fewer total PUGstomps since the change to limit folks to 4-man groups, ancedotally speaking. More cases where the losing team has gotten 3+ kills, too. There's certainly 1-8 or 0-8 losses mixed in there, too- but those tend to be when your team is either full of Trial 'Mechs (ie, newbie newbies) or you have people DC'ing on entry (the crash to desktop bug) leaving you with a 6-7 man team vs. a full 8.

The real key to pugstompings being utter pugstomps are those two factors, IMHO. Green pilots in Trials and DC's causing team imbalance from the start.

[Viper69]

There is no way in hell this game or this engine and pgi's bad netcode would support over 8 man games. Stop dreaming. Unless there is some serious overhauling of which I have no clue (but then i dont get paid for that) we will never see 12v12 matches for a very long time. I dont believe I wasted my money I just dont believe the game will ever reach the community warfare stage for over a year at the very earliest. That is a conservative guess.

[wanderer]

The engine wouldn't freak out much on 12v12, actually. The netcode issues are more with fast 'Mechs than multiple 'Mechs.

Still, you're right. It's gonna be a LOT of updates before MWO is really ready for prime time.