296 replies to this topic

[Ryken]

Kobold, on 30 November 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Ironically when I pilot my Jenner I'm more annoyed by Streakmandos than I am by Streakcats. At least the Cats I can outrun.

Im bothered by any streak build that can one shot a light mech.

[Kobold]

Ryken, on 30 November 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

Im bothered by any streak build that can one shot a light mech.

I really wish we could separate the streak issues from the ECM issues. I agree Streaks have problems, but the solution should be fixing Streaks, not implementing a new toy that completely gimps basic unupgraded LRMs.

[Jakob Knight]

PropagandaWar, on 30 November 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

*Third we haven't even seen it in action yet so how the hell would you know its OP.

The effects have been very specifically detailed, and applying those effects onto the combat conditions many of us have experienced in the game produces a series of effects that can be predicted easily and with great confidence, since other outcomes are not consistent with the details provided.

In short, experienced mech drivers can see how this system will affect them before they actually slam into it. This is the basis of tactics and strategy, as Sun-Tzu and other military theorists throughout history have known.

"The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights, and afterwards looks for victory."

Edited by Jakob Knight, 30 November 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[SpiralRazor]

For those of you who missed it:


"In short, the ECM system in MWO is being implemented in ignorance of the many years of testing that resulted in a system with good advantages that did not make a unit mounting it so protected that it could not reasonably be engaged by enemy units (especially since countermeasures would be the first thing built into a modern war machine when such a system were fielded). Those who want to ignore the TT rules are simply being foolish and do not understand the ramifications of what they do."

[SpiralRazor]

PropagandaWar, on 30 November 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

This post is silly.
*First I pilot Hunchbacks and Cents neither can use ECM so you guys can still aim at me.
*Second both sides have accesss to them.
*Third we haven't even seen it in action yet so how the hell would you know its OP.

Cause I have a brain and have been playing since June?

Death Knell, on 30 November 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

Just because you're bad at streak cats doesn't mean they're bad. I built and played one for the first time today, and guess what? I averaged 3 kills (Actually, it was around 2.901, between 1 and 5 kills per game over 61 games) per game. That's the best I've ever averaged with any mech ever. By playing to the strengths of streak missiles I was able to kill anything I came across with great ease. The only thing I couldn't take in a head on fight with out any real damage was an Atlas, but that's to be expected.

Streak cats are ridiculously good, stop trying to argue that.

Bad at streak cats....lol??? K bro.

So you can get killz on Trials, grats? 61 games huh...and the only thing to give you problems is an Atlas?

Fabrication and hence, lose all credibility.

In any case, I dont know what your point was. Im not talking about that...like, at all...

Edited by SpiralRazor, 30 November 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[Scratx]

SpiralRazor, on 30 November 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

For those of you who missed it:


"In short, the ECM system in MWO is being implemented in ignorance of the many years of testing that resulted in a system with good advantages that did not make a unit mounting it so protected that it could not reasonably be engaged by enemy units (especially since countermeasures would be the first thing built into a modern war machine when such a system were fielded). Those who want to ignore the TT rules are simply being foolish and do not understand the ramifications of what they do."

I say there's a much simpler explanation why ECM as announced is bad and has nothing to do with TT QQ'ing.

It takes no brain at all to install, very little sacrificed (it's just 1,5 ********* tons, that's an AMS!) and makes you magically invisible to everyone's radar unless they have TAG in which case they still need to keep hitting you with it to target you (good luck if you're not in an Atlas). Massive advantages even if you're using it solo, gets even worse with teamwork. Why would anybody who can install it not do so? Makes you in effect immune to LRMs and SSRMs, turns you into a ninja and a debuffer at close range to enemies.

All it really needs to do next is aim and slice bread for you.

Edited by Scratx, 30 November 2012 - 12:33 PM.

[PropagandaWar]

Jakob Knight, on 30 November 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

The effects have been very specifically detailed, and applying those effects onto the combat conditions many of us have experienced in the game produces a series of effects that can be predicted easily and with great confidence, since other outcomes are not consistent with the details provided.

In short, experienced mech drivers can see how this system will affect them before they actually slam into it. This is the basis of tactics and strategy, as Sun-Tzu and other military theorists throughout history have known.

"The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights, and afterwards looks for victory."

It doesnt affect me at all. Not one bit. You know why? Because I never got into a mech that you could simply point and fire LRM's non stop or streaks with little to no worry of a counter. ECM's will not stop my Lasers or My SRM's and AC's. the ECM wont stop LRM's from hitting if they have LOS or a mech is tagging threat. You can still attain a lock with streaks its just a bit harder (Boo freakin hoo that the no miss weapon has to be treated like ballistics and youll actually have to aim a bit longer).

Edited by PropagandaWar, 30 November 2012 - 12:36 PM.

[SpiralRazor]

PropagandaWar, on 30 November 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

It doesnt affect me at all. Not one bit. You know why? Because I never got into a mech that you could simply point and fire LRM's non stop or streaks with little to no worry of a counter. ECM's will not stop my Lasers or My SRM's and AC's. the ECM wont stop LRM's from hitting if they have LOS or a mech is tagging threat. You can still attain a lock with streaks its just a bit harder (Boo freakin hoo that the no miss weapon has to be treated like ballistics and youll actually have to aim a bit longer).

Umm...yes, yes they will...I think you will see just how much you rely on your HUD. And it will most definitely stop LRMS even with LOS due to the null sig field. And Streaks wont even fire without the lock....meaning you have a 20 meter band in which you have to hold your lock down...closer and you get nothing...zip.

Failure to comprehend the issue i think.

[Kobold]

PropagandaWar, on 30 November 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

the ECM wont stop LRM's from hitting if they have LOS or a mech is tagging threat. You can still attain a lock with streaks its just a bit harder

A mech with LRMs or Streaks has to be standing between 180-200m away to lock onto a target with ECM. Any farther away and they won't be able to achieve lock. Any closer and they will be inside the ECM field, and unable to achieve lock (ignoring the LRM's minimum range).

Compare this to tabletop/lore where ECM does NOTHING to streaks or standard LRMs.

[PropagandaWar]

SpiralRazor, on 30 November 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Umm...yes, yes they will...I think you will see just how much you rely on your HUD. And it will most definitely stop LRMS even with LOS due to the null sig field. And Streaks wont even fire without the lock....meaning you have a 20 meter band in which you have to hold your lock down...closer and you get nothing...zip.

Failure to comprehend the issue i think.

You can dumbfire LRM's. As for streaks fine use SRM's more damage anyway (but ya gotta aim don't ya). I know how much I rely on my hud for my torso and map. Enemys not so much because Im usually always moving. If both sides are using it that means both sides are going to have issues so I fail to see the problem. Besides I like a challenge. I comprehend the issue just fine I just think a big deal is being made out of something from what I am assuming is LRM and Streak Pilots.

[Col Forbin]

Ryken, on 30 November 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

I agree, this sounds way more complicated then it needed to be. It should simply be an electronic counter measure.

ECM should be available for ALL mechs. ECM should reduce detection range for the equpiped mech only, double the required time to achieve a missle lock and cancel out the effect of artemis.

I play most of the time in a commando, all i was hoping for was the ability to level the playing field against streak boats.

Yeah, let's have another passive system in the game that does nothing except pad some stats. Why would we want something that adds another element to the gameplay?

I personally look forward to diving my Raven into an enemy group and causing all kinds of havoc...

Edited by Col Forbin, 30 November 2012 - 12:56 PM.

[PropagandaWar]

Col Forbin, on 30 November 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Yeah, let's have another passive system in the game that does nothing except pad some stats. Why would we want something that adds another element to the gameplay?

I personally look forward to diving my Raven into an enemy group and causing all kinds of havoc...

See I like this guy here. Hes gonna come in and Im going to shoot him he will shoot me then my buddy will go oh snapperoos my streaks dont work crap. And I will say Never Fear BATMAN is here and hit hime with 10 srms and a "Lazer". Yes the fight will be on.

[Jakob Knight]

PropagandaWar, on 30 November 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

It doesnt affect me at all. Not one bit. You know why? Because I never got into a mech that you could simply point and fire LRM's non stop or streaks with little to no worry of a counter. ECM's will not stop my Lasers or My SRM's and AC's. the ECM wont stop LRM's from hitting if they have LOS or a mech is tagging threat. You can still attain a lock with streaks its just a bit harder (Boo freakin hoo that the no miss weapon has to be treated like ballistics and youll actually have to aim a bit longer).

I don't find someone boasting of their ignorance a positive mark in the favor of them knowing what they are talking about. If you've never piloted an LRM unit, I would have to discard your comments in favor of people who have. I pilot several kinds of 'mech, and have used about every weapon in the game at one point or another. I can tell you that you are quite incorrect about LRMs being 'point and fire', or Streaks being in any way different from other weapons in regards to having a counter. And the fact that you speak of Streaks being able to fire without a lock betrays a serious lack of knowledge about weapons systems.

As for ECM not affecting your AC or SRMs, I would be most interested to see how well you perform in combat without your HUD, or communication with your team (assuming you even have a team).

Still, I guess we have to accept the Counterstrike players alongside the rest.

[SpiralRazor]

dumbfire lrms....that travel at 360m/s. Kk.... you let me know how that goes for you guy.

[Demetirus]

I have to admit, I worry about what this means for my C1F in situations where I don't feel like dropping with my Corp. It really looks like a very specific strat is needed counter this if you're going to have any guided weapons around.

At least, if it goes through as is. I'm honestly hoping for some changes to what has been stated so far.

[PropagandaWar]

Jakob Knight, on 30 November 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

I don't find someone boasting of their ignorance a positive mark in the favor of them knowing what they are talking about. If you've never piloted an LRM unit, I would have to discard your comments in favor of people who have. I pilot several kinds of 'mech, and have used about every weapon in the game at one point or another. I can tell you that you are quite incorrect about LRMs being 'point and fire', or Streaks being in any way different from other weapons in regards to having a counter. And the fact that you speak of Streaks being able to fire without a lock betrays a serious lack of knowledge about weapons systems.

As for ECM not affecting your AC or SRMs, I would be most interested to see how well you perform in combat without your HUD, or communication with your team (assuming you even have a team).

Still, I guess we have to accept the Counterstrike players alongside the rest.

I did pilot LRM boats for a brief time and I still find them easy and boring (Nothing against boaters just not my thing). Tried a Streakcat a couple times same result as the LRM's (Never said you didnt have to aquire a lock to fire a streak, I have been playing BT/MW for over 20 years). Ive even piloted without a hud filming some videos hard but not impossible (Even when firing). Never got into Counterstike but your smack talking fest leads me to believe you prefer simplicity so maybe you play it? Other things to note. ECM's can be countered by ECM's at a 1/1 ratio putting tag on your streak rig ect., ect. Also what makes you think lights are going to want to hang around bigs and protect them all day long? Another to this is dont do 8v8 premades where you have no control over whats coming in. Get a group of buddies and have them all drop in meds and heavies. if not then do all lights and maybe an assault and it becomes a hide and seek fest with the exception of the atlas who will be easy to spot. While I do rely on my hud I also have no problem following mechs visually either. Killing commandos and ravens is not a hard thing to do. I also didnt say LRM's were worth a crap dumbfiring simply that you can with LOS.

I play with cored. www.teamcored.com

Edited by PropagandaWar, 30 November 2012 - 02:09 PM.

[SpiralRazor]

I find it interesting that this is the ONLY thread where Paul mentioned anything about the ECM implementation.

And the only thing he posted was that he didnt work on it.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 11 December 2012 - 10:09 AM.