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Tag & Narc Buff


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#1 MouseNo4

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:27 PM

Thanks for that. It was sorely needed. It isn't enough IMHO, but I will take what I can get. (Been purposefully using both since they appeared)

http://mwomercs.com/...apon-balancing/

Quote

I've also looked into doing some tweaks with the NARC and TAG systems. So far I'm planning on increasing the time that a NARC beacon lasts from 15 seconds to 20 seconds. TAG range will be boosted from 450m to 750m.


Do not use this thread to discuss ECM. Many threads exist for your whinging.

Edited by MouseNo4, 04 December 2012 - 09:37 PM.


#2 Namwons

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:32 PM

what buff? all i saw was TAG can pierce ECM outside of there 180m bubble. narc is still screwed.

#3 Rifter

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:34 PM

what are you talking about?

#4 MouseNo4

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:34 PM

View PostNamwons, on 04 December 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

what buff? all i saw was TAG can pierce ECM outside of there 180m bubble. narc is still screwed.


I do apologise I should have included the link I have now added from the updated Command Chair reply from Paul. It isn't in yet but I really like the upcoming buffs to the pair of them as I have been using NARC & TAG a LOT!

#5 Vermaxx

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:39 PM

Nothing is going to unfk narc unless the missile works within ecm. If it doesn't, then the equipment is useless. Fortunately, it was already useless since it shut off after people lost line of sight. The missile should transmit homing info regardless of los for the whole duration.

I don't understand tag currently. It CAN paint a target, as long as the firer is outside the enemy ecm bubble? Is that right? So basically tag is just a poptart tactic now?

#6 Rifter

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:39 PM

View PostMouseNo4, on 04 December 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

I do apologise I should have included the link I have now added from the updated Command Chair reply from Paul. It isn't in yet but I really like the upcoming buffs to the pair of them as I have been using NARC & TAG a LOT!


20 seconds is still to low, weight of launcher and ammo still to high. Also untill they fix you needing to keep LOS to beacon NARC will always be useless. You should be able to come out of cover narc target and get back into cover. Having to come out of cover narc target then run around being target practice for duration of beacon is just stupid.

TAG buff looks good though.

#7 MadcatX

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

View PostVermaxx, on 04 December 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

I don't understand tag currently. It CAN paint a target, as long as the firer is outside the enemy ecm bubble? Is that right? So basically tag is just a poptart tactic now?


Pretty much

Edited by MadcatX, 04 December 2012 - 09:41 PM.


#8 MouseNo4

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:43 PM

View PostVermaxx, on 04 December 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

Nothing is going to unfk narc unless the missile works within ecm. If it doesn't, then the equipment is useless. Fortunately, it was already useless since it shut off after people lost line of sight. The missile should transmit homing info regardless of los for the whole duration.

I don't understand tag currently. It CAN paint a target, as long as the firer is outside the enemy ecm bubble? Is that right? So basically tag is just a poptart tactic now?


Please respect my request for no discussion on ECM.

As I already said, I don't believe it's enough of a buff - I agree with you NARC still isn't buffed enough but anything is more than it had before.

#9 General Taskeen

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:45 PM

That's not really a buff at all. NARC/TAG are supposed to have indirect fire functionality according to TT, which they don't have here. Since nobody really reads the suggestion forum, I'm just going to copy my post here.

A proper buff:

* There could be a new functional mode added to switch to direct/indirect mode for missile launchers. Indirect mode could cause dumb-fired missiles (if in range) to seek nearest NARC/TAG target.

The NARC 'keep on target' time to 20s will still keep it useless, imo. NARC already can be permanently shut down by ECM. With a super effective counter like that, its time on target should be several minutes or infinity. In TT the narc pod stays attached unless the part it was attached to is destroyed

Solution: If NARC gave indirect dumb-fired missiles the ability to home in and the time on target was increased for a few minutes/infinity then they wouldn't need any ammo increase period.

Likewise if TAG actually gave the same ability (except the drawback being the pilot needs to keep the laser on the target) to have indirectly fired missiles home in, it would be an extremely better counter to ECM than it currently is.

Edited by General Taskeen, 04 December 2012 - 09:49 PM.


#10 MouseNo4

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:46 PM

View PostGeneral Taskeen, on 04 December 2012 - 09:45 PM, said:

That's not really a buff at all. NARC/TAG are supposed to have indirect fire functionality according to TT, which they don't have here. Since nobody really reads the suggestion forum, I'm just going to copy my post here.

A proper buff:

* There could be a new functional mode added to switch to direct/indirect mode for missile launchers. Indirect mode could cause dumb-fired missiles (if in range) to seek nearest NARC/TAG target.

The NARC 'keep on target' time to 20s will still keep it useless, imo. NARC already can be permanently shut down by ECM. With a super effective counter like that, its time on target should be several minutes or infinity.

Solution: If NARC gave indirect dumb-fired missiles the ability to home in and the time on target was increased for a few minutes/infinity they then wouldn't need any ammo increase period.

Likewise if TAG actually gave the same ability (except the drawback being the pilot needs to keep the laser on the target) to have indirectly fired missiles home in, it would be an extremely better counter to ECM than it currently is.


This isn't tabletop (TT).

#11 Super Mono

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:50 PM

View PostMouseNo4, on 04 December 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

This isn't tabletop (TT).


You could have just posted nothing and that would have the same value as this response.

#12 General Taskeen

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:52 PM

View PostMouseNo4, on 04 December 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

This isn't tabletop (TT).


Oh really, then why is ECM based purely on ECCM rules from TABLE TOP? Oh wait, I just trumped your "this isn't tabletop (TT)" argument, if that's what that is.

#13 MouseNo4

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:56 PM

View PostSuper Mono, on 04 December 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:


You could have just posted nothing and that would have the same value as this response.


Am I wrong? This isn't tabletop. This is MWO. This is PGI's interpretation of Battletech in the form of a multiplayer PC game. There are no strict rules that state PGI cannot do X or Y. As long as the owners of the property do not say "No" then PGI will rightly continue doing what they believe is conducive to a fun and enjoyable version of a game BASED on Battletech.

No, I am not wrong.

View PostGeneral Taskeen, on 04 December 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:


Oh really, then why is ECM based purely on ECCM rules from TABLE TOP? Oh wait, I just trumped your "this isn't tabletop (TT)" argument, if that's what that is.


As I have already requested, please keep your discussion to the current topic - TAG & NARC.

#14 General Taskeen

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:00 PM

View PostMouseNo4, on 04 December 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Am I wrong?


Yeah, simple as that. Again, pay attention. ECM is designed after Table Top. Get it? Ok, good. Go look up the rules , almost word for word interpretation they used from TT. Narc/TAG, yeah, not so much designed like their TT counterparts.

Again, something X with full TT design vs. something Y with half-baked TT-based design in your MWO, supposedly not based on TT mech-shooter-big-robot-game.

Quote

From source: TechManual

The Narc Missile Beacon is a missile homing utility that can be planted on enemy targets, causing friendly SRMs and LRM missiles (even those that do not traditionally have homing capabilities) to lock on to them.

Edited by General Taskeen, 04 December 2012 - 10:04 PM.


#15 Blowfeld

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:04 PM

Hm, still see no real practiacal use in NARC weightin in how reliant it is on hitting, ammo, space and weight (dont forget the money).

Tag looks good though...

#16 Jacmac

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:25 PM

TAG buffed to 750, maybe useful now; NARC at 20, 30, 40 seconds? Still a joke. NARC should last a couple of minutes to be worthwhile.

#17 JudgeDeathCZ

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:29 PM

NARC should be buffed up to 1 minute W/O restriction of LoS.
Tag range buff will be nice :)

#18 hammerreborn

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:31 PM

While I'd like any buff to come TAGs way, 750m range seems kinda...wrong. That means cata's will be able to be their own spotter, which kinda defeats the purpose of a spotter.

I would much prefer TAG negating the lock on/target time increase (normal instead of at 25% speed). Right now having to hold TAG on a mech for 3-5 seconds before you can even "r" him just doesn't work unless the team is clueless as to your position.

#19 hammerreborn

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:35 PM

View Posthammerreborn, on 04 December 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

While I'd like any buff to come TAGs way, 750m range seems kinda...wrong. That means cata's will be able to be their own spotter, which kinda defeats the purpose of a spotter.

I would much prefer TAG negating the lock on/target time increase (normal instead of at 25% speed). Right now having to hold TAG on a mech for 3-5 seconds before you can even "r" him just doesn't work unless the team is clueless as to your position.


Oh and not to mention that holding tag on someone from 750 out will be even harder than 450, as small changes in position are more likely to disrupt the tag.

#20 Thomas Covenant

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:12 PM

OP we can learn from TT because this game IS BASED ON TT. So when a mechanic seems like it would work better in it's table top form it valid to bring up that argument. Maybe there was a good reason for the change, but being the inspiration for mechwarrior, its a GOOD place to reffer back to.





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