889 replies to this topic

[Kurayami]

None of my mech builds aside those relying heavily on missiles cost more than 90k on R&R. And im absolutely OK with 160k R&R of missile boat - handy toys should be expensive.

[Prandur Everdark]

Most of you are missing the core of the issue. PGI wants to have several viable loadouts - the goal is for scouts to be as important as assault mechs and support-fire mechs to be as important as brawlers. However this balance can't be achieved as long as one type of mech has higher repair/rearm costs while receiving the same/similar amounts of c-bills after each game.

As I outlined in the suggestions (http://mwomercs.com/...-balance-issue/), there is a simple general solution for the high rearm costs as well as for the varying repair costs.

[FrostPaw]

Relic1701, on 29 November 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

Rarely get a repair bill over 50k, unless I decide to run a mech loaded with fancy gear, but then, I never do. Of all the mechs I currently run, the most advanced tech I have is either DHS or SSRM (1 launcher).

I've also have mechs I use specifically for grinding cash, standard engines, no advanced tech, little or no ammo..fully destroyed think my repair bill on my CN9-AL is about 25k.

Bottom line is, run expensive toys, expect to have expensive repair bills.

This man speaks true, expensive upgrades are expensive, that's because they help you perform better in select circumstances. If you can't out earn your repair bill, you need to equip your mech for your skill level and stop over budgeting your average performance, it clearly isn't paying off for you. Your two greatest expenses are clearly upgrades and ammo, breathe between shots, use less upgrades, profit.

Personally, I don't think I've paid out more than 80k for a repair of a mech, and I run Atlas and Jenners with XL engines and Endo Steel. Squeezing every inch of performance out of your mechs for pugs is overkill and you're paying for the privilege, bring your best, most expensive mechs when it matters, not for pugging.

Edited by FrostPaw, 29 November 2012 - 01:57 AM.

[EGL]

Everyone else here is also forgetting the income you will be getting from your house/merc unit. Factor in the salary/wages you get from the community warfare aspect and it will equal out. Their plan is for the drops to make enough money to repair and your house/merc wages to pay for the fun stuff. Read up on the economy guys. The economy is only half implemented due to the community warfare aspect not being in.

[Squid von Torgar]

So a guy buys a Ferrari and then struggles to pay for the maintenance and fuel. He posts on the Ferrari boards and demands that Ferrari fix it!

Thats basically what you are doing. Yes I have played without my Premium bonus, I still made money, although it was a lot slower. But then again I have paid for that bonus, just so I can afford to run expensive builds.

And thats the answer. You want expensive builds? Then buy some premium time. You want to play for free? Thats cool, but expect more of a grind.

That is all

[Vassago Rain]

Second game. Not quite as good, and I ended up dying very quickly. Center torso ruined only. As the second fastest mech on our team (hahaha), I had to do scouting and spotting for the LRM boats.



Then my repairs.



In general, this was a much riskier, and offensive, game, as I was the scout and spotter. I died on the enemy team's oilrig. It's not very encouraging when you get less, and have to pay more, for games where you go all-out, or try to brawl in your brawling mech.

[Max Liao]

You're an Atlas and lost your engine. I fail to see the problem.

[Vassago Rain]

Chaldon, on 29 November 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

I second this. Artemis is elite weaponry and you should reserve it for skill matches.

Right now you should be grinding out a stable of mechs to Elite status. Have you cheap favorite as your farming mech.

But yes, you should be earning more c-bills. On top of this the system is backwards. The big money should come from skill in-game - instead it comes from your team winning.

edit Kills should pay out 40k each. Not 2k. Assists should pay out 25k.

Lol, elite skills? Are you a scrub? Get 22 mechs. Now master all but 5 of them, please.
Then get back to me.



Here, my stable. You think this isn't farming enough? Want me to go farm in a commando? Want to see the repair bill for XL, pulse lasers, artemis missiles, and FF armor when my babby gets nuked?

[Deadoon]

Every design choice for armor and weapons comes at a downside, Artemis systems only have the benefit with los and weigh 1 ton more and use an extra slot each. Xl engines protrude into the side torso sections, doubling the areas which could be destroyed to be cored/popped. Endo steel removes a full 14 slots from your mech, as does ferro. Dhs increase heat dispersion by using up 3 times the space for the same weight thus making you use up alot of space. See what I'm getting at? Every one of these decreases slots available or weighs more in the case of artemis systems. These should be the balancing factors, not maintenance and resupply costs. Adding a second layer of downsides makes them less and less liked and is a form of player punishment for exploring capabilities of their mech. By making them only get 25% more funds than the trial mechs but adding on repair costs that easily will go beyond that 15-20k +1-30k for salvage, you make it seem like half the game is about punishing the player for being unique and wanting to stand out.

I made a post about item repair costs,an armor stripped atlas will take more funds to repair the armor than it would to repair his tech tier 2 XL engine from the free % repairs.

Remove repair costs and make mechs just as profitable from winnings as trials, there you just made every mech as a viable choice as any other mech from the lightest flea to the tricked out atlas, if you excel in a role you should get equal returns for equal work, not diminishing returns for larger work horses.

Edited by Deadoon, 29 November 2012 - 02:04 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Max Liao, on 29 November 2012 - 02:00 AM, said:

You're an Atlas and lost your engine. I fail to see the problem.

It's a standard engine. The problem is, and I'm sorry you don't get it, that I made a lot more for being a defensive, sneaky *******, and playing to my supposed strengths.

And then they charge me over 50% of my earnings for games that I do well in. Can you imagine a bad player trying this?

[EGL]

Vassago is trolling, he must be, go re read my first post on the community warfare and economy situation.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

EldenLance, on 29 November 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

Just tell me how you manage to achieve those numbers??

LRM ammo is very overpriced. Play a missileboat and you'll see. It's even worse if you use Artemis missiles.

Edited by Bluten, 29 November 2012 - 02:05 AM.

[Deadoon]

EGL, on 29 November 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

Vassago is trolling, he must be, go re read my first post on the community warfare and economy situation.

So someone disagrees with you it is automatically trolling? Seriously, that is what is wrong with this community at times.

[Max Liao]

Vassago Rain, on 29 November 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

It's a standard engine. The problem is, and I'm sorry you don't get it, that I made a lot more for being a defensive, sneaky *******, and playing to my supposed strengths.

And then they charge me over 50% of my earnings for games that I do well in. Can you imagine a bad player trying this?

Then be defensive - not in your posts, in game.

When I PUG I do what the PUGs do. It beats standing alone.

When I play with my team we (usually) wait and defend. We'll wait the entire 15 minutes if need be. And we win 9 times out of 10. Why? Because patience tends to beat out charging. (Then again, some teams have some very coordinated charges - kudos to them.)

I still have no sympathy for you or your fees in an Atlas - an assault 'Mech which is incredibly rare and expensive (per canon). I would suggest playing a Centurion a more economical 'Mech for your more middle class economic tastes.

Edited by Max Liao, 29 November 2012 - 02:08 AM.

[Taizan]

You still made ca. 75k plus there (without FB ca. 37k), but you say that is not enough? Sure on a loss you'll make minus, but that's because you decided to run a build that isn't cost efficient. As long as people are not loosing money on a win, no matter how expensive the mech build is, all is well.

[EGL]

Deadoon, on 29 November 2012 - 02:06 AM, said:

So someone disagrees with you it is automatically trolling? Seriously, that is what is wrong with this community at times.

Has nothing to do with disagreeing, has to do with the fact that the economy is not fully implemented so how is it not going to be broken? It is not in full affect so of course it has issues.

[Deadoon]

Max Liao, on 29 November 2012 - 02:07 AM, said:

Then be defensive - not in your posts, in game.

When I PUG I do what the PUGs do. It beats standing alone.

When I play with my team we (usually) wait and defend. We'll wait the entire 15 minutes if need be. And we win 9 times out of 10. Why? Because patience tends to beat out charging. (Then again, some teams have some very coordinated charges - kudos to them.)

I still have no sympathy for you or your fees in an Atlas - an assault 'Mech which is incredibly rare and expensive (per canon). I would suggest playing a Centurion a more economical 'Mech for your more middle class economic tastes.

The devs themselves said that they want every mech to be viable as any other, but by repair costs go up as your mech weight does, you make them increasingly less viable.

EGL, on 29 November 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

Has nothing to do with disagreeing, has to do with the fact that the economy is not fully implemented so how is it not going to be broken? It is not in full affect so of course it has issues.

There is such thing as stopgap solutions to issues, one simple solution is to remove repair and rearm fees for mechs, while at the same time decreasing endgame rewards slightly for owned mechs.

Taizan, on 29 November 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

You still made ca. 75k plus there (without FB ca. 37k), but you say that is not enough? Sure on a loss you'll make minus, but that's because you decided to run a build that isn't cost efficient. As long as people are not loosing money on a win, no matter how expensive the mech build is, all is well.

If he ran a trial and did absolutely horrible he would have gotten the same or more. more especially if he wasn't using a founders mech.

Edited by Deadoon, 29 November 2012 - 02:12 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Let me tell you about repairing lights. This will be very expensive.

[Rifter]

Prices are way way out of control thats for sure.

My prefered brawling mech is my AWS-8R, and i can rack up the damage and kills with it an average game in that mech usualy nets me 600-900 damage and 2-3 kills with 1 in 5 games getting me 1000+ damage and 4+ kills, i feel bad for ripping people apart in it sometimes.

Its got 4 SRM6's and 2 LL, so nothing at all high tech about the weapons, the only two upgrades i purchased are DHS and Artemis. Its got a standard engine and standard frame.

My average repair/rearm bill if i live is around 120-150,000 cbills, if i die im facing 160,000+, i carry 10 tons of ammo so 105,000 of that is ammo alone.

This is pure insanity, im not running a XL, or FF which are the two expensive upgrades that cost a arm and a leg to fix.

I should not be paying more than i make on a great i killed half the team myself win to ready my mech for the next game.

If it wasnt for the 75% free ammo i seriously would not even be playing this game anymore, they need to rework the whole economy.

[Max Liao]

Deadoon, on 29 November 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

The devs themselves said that they want every mech to be viable as any other, but by repair costs go up as your mech weight does, you make them increasingly less viable.

Assault 'Mechs should never, EVER equal in population to Medium 'Mechs (which are the 'workhorses of the Inner Sphere armies' and comprise 40% of the active 'Mechs in service).

Secondly, those 'Mechs are viable. They're more than viable, they are exceptional in combat. With that said, I wouldn't use one when PUGging. Save the upgraded designs for your team, stick to smaller chassis, or limit your tech.