59 replies to this topic

[Sevaradan]

Belorion, on 29 November 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

There is nothing wrong with the k2 builds. Run one for a while then come back and tell us what you think. I dont even currently own a k2. My best game ever was with a 2uac Phract.

this absolutely hated my k2

[Bloody Moon]

Vila deVere, on 29 November 2012 - 07:08 AM, said:

I've yet to lose a single toe to toe engagement to a guasscat using my dual guass 4X. However, it'll leave me with ripped up armor. In general, guasscats are better dealth with with focused fire to minimize their ability to deal damage.

+1

I absolutely decimate Gauss Cats in my Quad LL Phract-3D, jumpjets in close combat is the bane of those Cats.

[MustrumRidcully]

Rixsaw, on 29 November 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

I'm sorry guys, but I got to say it. Shabowie, you sir, are a complete *****.

Nothing you have posted fits into cannon, nor does it demonstrate an understanding of how the game balance works.

Guass Rifles are high damage, and long range yes, but they are 15 tons, carry small ammo per ton, and have a 4 second shot cooldown. Right now an AC2 does 4 DMG per second, so in 4 seconds an AC2 does 16 DMG while a guass does 15. Not to mention the AC2 blinds you for the entire 4 seconds with screen shake etc. Heck an SRM6 also does 15 damage weighs much less and fires more often. You Shabowie just need to play more before posting okay?

Actually, in a straight up duel:
Gauss and AC2 start firing at 0 seconds:
0 Seconds in:
Gauss: 15 damage
AC/2: 2 damage
1 Second in:
Gauss: 15 damage
AC/2: 4 damage.
...
4 Seconds in:
Gauss: 30 damage
AC/2: 18 damage
...
8 Seconds in:
Gauss: 45 damage
AC/2: 38 damage
...
60 seconds in:
Gauss: 240 damage
AC/2: 242 damage

So it takes about 60 seconds for the AC/2 to actually utilize its full DPS advantage. Before that, every time the Gauss fires, it will exceed the AC/2s damage done so far.

And that'S why I think that for the same DPS, the weapon with the lower ROF is better off.

[Urza Mechwalker]

MustrumRidcully, on 29 November 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

Actually, in a straight up duel:
Gauss and AC2 start firing at 0 seconds:
0 Seconds in:
Gauss: 15 damage
AC/2: 2 damage
1 Second in:
Gauss: 15 damage
AC/2: 4 damage.
...
4 Seconds in:
Gauss: 30 damage
AC/2: 18 damage
...
8 Seconds in:
Gauss: 45 damage
AC/2: 38 damage
...
60 seconds in:
Gauss: 240 damage
AC/2: 242 damage

So it takes about 60 seconds for the AC/2 to actually utilize its full DPS advantage. Before that, every time the Gauss fires, it will exceed the AC/2s damage done so far.

And that'S why I think that for the same DPS, the weapon with the lower ROF is better off.

well and it does pay for that with a crapload of weight

[Barushkukor]

I eat GKittys alive and love it.

Besides, just wait till all those Gauss Rifles become ticking time bombs...all nestled up inside...next to that nice war engine...pretty 'splosions!

[MustrumRidcully]

Urza Mechwalker, on 29 November 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

well and it does pay for that with a crapload of weight

Interesting observation. You need 12 heat sinks to run a single AC/2 for 60 seconds.
To run 2 AC/2s together, you need 30 heat sinks... Which means even with engine heat sinks, it's 30 tons, same as 2 Gauss Rifles. (And both still need Ammo...)

Thank god we have engine double heat sinks. You only need about 18 (10 engine, 8 out-of-engine) for that.

[JTAlweezy]

learn to use it or stop complaining. I used it for a while and thoroughly enjoyed it. I would however always be owned by jenners, tough luck but thats how it goes. Learn to play the game the way it is. You find it is a lot more than you give it credit for.

[Wolfways]

shabowie, on 29 November 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

Was there ever a push to nerf them or solve the problem in closed beta? I didn't read the forums much at the time, but when I came back after open I was surprised to see them still in the game. And they are still very much easy mode. Command chair posts about autocannon and gauss present solutions that will effect single users of such weapons much more than cats with dual guns.

Why doesn't the developer do something about them? It doesn't seem possible they intended either build.

In CB many complained about the gausscats (i was one of them), but PGI decided to "fix" the problem by redesigning the K2 so you could see if it was using PPC's or not. So they did nothing about the problem and made sure to keep the gausscat players happy.
Making the gauss fragile does nothing to the K2 when the side torso's rarely get destroyed. I use a K3 (ERPPC's) all the time and nearly every time i'm killed it's the head or center torso that's taken out (that's also why using an XL engine is a no-brainer).

The only good thing to come from this is that if you do use PPC's the enemy will usually target you last, as you're the lowest threat (i have been told this a few times ingame when i asked the enemy team why they switched target from me).
Of course, if you're using ERPPC's (with 20DHS) you need to cool down as fast as possible, so your other weapon options are kinda limited to MG's and SL's.
I wish the K2 had missile hardpoints

[Kobold]

I heart my Splatapult.

[Divine Madcat]

As much as I hate Gaussapults, I am loving my dual ac20pult.. Double heatsinks, non xl engine, and 7 tons of ammo ( yes, my arms have almost nothing..).

That unsaid, while I can one-shot many mechs (I love when munchies show their backs, or a light stops in front of me), I have no JJ, move as slow as an Atlas, and have limited ammo. I think my disabilities balance out the sheer power of the guns, making it a fair build..

[Oy of MidWorld]

Rixsaw, on 29 November 2012 - 06:43 AM, said:

I'm sorry guys, but I got to say it. Shabowie, you sir, are a complete *****.

Nothing you have posted fits into cannon, nor does it demonstrate an understanding of how the game balance works.

Guass Rifles are high damage, and long range yes, but they are 15 tons, carry small ammo per ton, and have a 4 second shot cooldown. Right now an AC2 does 4 DMG per second, so in 4 seconds an AC2 does 16 DMG while a guass does 15. Not to mention the AC2 blinds you for the entire 4 seconds with screen shake etc. Heck an SRM6 also does 15 damage weighs much less and fires more often. You Shabowie just need to play more before posting okay?

Apart from being impolite (unprovoked), your reference to canon proves that you have clearly no idea what you're talking about. Or were you trying to say "the cannon doesn't fit in there"?

[Kurayami]

dec 4 ssrm nerf+gauss becoming nice lil ticking bombs.

[Tickdoff Tank]

MustrumRidcully, on 29 November 2012 - 08:31 AM, said:

Actually, in a straight up duel:
Gauss and AC2 start firing at 0 seconds:
0 Seconds in:
Gauss: 15 damage
AC/2: 2 damage
1 Second in:
Gauss: 15 damage
AC/2: 4 damage.
...
4 Seconds in:
Gauss: 30 damage
AC/2: 18 damage
...
8 Seconds in:
Gauss: 45 damage
AC/2: 38 damage
...
60 seconds in:
Gauss: 240 damage
AC/2: 242 damage

So it takes about 60 seconds for the AC/2 to actually utilize its full DPS advantage. Before that, every time the Gauss fires, it will exceed the AC/2s damage done so far.

And that'S why I think that for the same DPS, the weapon with the lower ROF is better off.

You should compare the gauss to 2 AC2s considering that 2 AC2s weigh 12 tons and the Gauss weighs 15.

[Garth Erlam]

Wolfways, on 29 November 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

So they did nothing about the problem and made sure to keep the gausscat players happy.

[Wolfways]

Garth Erlam, on 29 November 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Players complained about K2's with big weapons in the side torso's. They are still there. i.e. nothing changed.

[Kurayami]

Garth Erlam, on 29 November 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

go away troll - dont steal my funneh.

[the Gingerbread Man]

Garth Erlam, on 29 November 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

You certainly are just trolling, but I'll bite.

The problem with the gausscat is the hitboxes. The side torsos almost never take damage. Thus, the armor never gets stripped. Thus, reducing the HP of the gauss rifle does nothing to neuter gauss cats. The HP nerf only neuters single-gauss variants like hunchbacks, centurions and Atlas which already lose their ballistic almost as soon as a fight begins.

Catraphract can dual gauss, but it suffers from convergence issues that the catapult does not. It also will have gauss-covering armor stripped sooner than any catapult. Thus, the K2 gains an immediate advantage over every other gauss-using platform.

[Kurayami]

k2 just need a different approach =_= just hit it not head but from a side - a few grads to the left or right will do just fine - and magically all this "impossible to hit" side torso armor is yours to tear. all cats and k2 is not an exception have big easy to hit cabin hitboxes. as for convergence - i was amused when after learning elite convergence gauss started to hit anything but not the spot i was aiming.

[MustrumRidcully]

Tickdoff Tank, on 29 November 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

You should compare the gauss to 2 AC2s considering that 2 AC2s weigh 12 tons and the Gauss weighs 15.

Have you tried firing an AC/2 for 60 second?

Tickdoff Tank, on 29 November 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

You should compare the gauss to 2 AC2s considering that 2 AC2s weigh 12 tons and the Gauss weighs 15.

12 tons, and need 30 Standard Heat Sinks to fire for 60 seconds. If you have a 250 rated engine, 10 of those are free.
So now you're at 32 tons. 2 Gauss Rifles.
Double Heat Sinks improve the situation considerably. You need 8 out-of-engine Double Heat Sinks (assuming again a 250-rated engine for 10 free engine heat sinks) to last for at least 60 seconds... ANd will overheat shortly after, negating your advantage (19 seconds later, you will have recovered from all heat and can try the full sprint gain.)-
8 DHS are only 8 tons, so you're at 18 tons vs 30 for 2 Gauss Rifles, looks definitely better. Of course, that's also 21 Crits, so you can probably forget about Endo Steel to make it all fit. (which at that weight you can support 2 AC/2s, you lose 2.5 to 5 tons...) Still okay, no doubt. Of course, the Gauss Rifle can add 1.25 DPS or 4 extra damage every 4 seconds by adding a medium laser- not at the AC/2s or Gauss Rifles full range... The 2 AC/2s cannot do it that easily, since that would require them to add 6 more DHS...

[Mechsniper]

The already fragile gun in the atlas is now a joke with the gauss being made a pos mattel toy. That was a horrible idea. Really, how hard is it to take some heat off the energy weapons now that we see double heat sinks just don't cut it for ppc, erppc, large pulse and ER Large lasers. Take away the glass gun effect and allow us some equal weapons. LRMs are OP due to no teamwork going against them so Noobs boat 4 LRM atlas/Cats or bring a SSRM boat or two to add insult to injury and sweep the day. That is NOT mechwarrior, sorry played all of them and it does not resemble them at all. We need a lobby and voip in the game to allow us to load out for a KNOWN map to drop into. 3rd party will not cut it. Then let the boats loose. As noobs become experienced pugs will not be so easily beaten by a gang of lrm noobs who tout thier 12+ k/d that means jack, because they haven't been put in a real fight yet.