Jump to content

Why Even Bother Nerfing Ac/2 Impulse?


38 replies to this topic

#21 SkyCake

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 524 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:54 AM

View PostIkarti Danaro, on 04 December 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:


In fact, fielding AC/2s on most Mechs in my experience is a ridiculous waste of time, space, and resources. Also the hallmark of a bad player. Any sort of 2xAC/2 Atlas is representative of this.



actually, i think its just the opposite... putting guass or AC20 on your atlas is a waste as these weapons usually are knocked out in the first seconds of batte... while my dual AC/2's always make it to the end of the match.... plus as you mentioned, the shaken baby syndrome you inflict on your enemies keeps them suppressed while you just pour on more of the hate...

#22 Kraven Kor

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 5,434 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:01 AM

Let's wait and see how it goes.

I think it is perfectly fair to say an AC/2 should "rock you" less than an AC/10, certainly. But I think the AC/2 needs some "rocking" effect to remain viable as a suppression weapon, which is what it really should be.

Still, my quad AC/2 Dakkaphract does just fine in the damage department. It is not a "good" build, per se, it is a "fun" build. If the enemy actually starts shooting at me, it doesn't last long, generally. But, if they ignore me, as they often do, I murder people. I've cored out several LRM boats at 700 to 1000 meters - just unloading into their CT while they stand still and let me. Sillyness; but I'll take it.

But, even in an actual brawl, it fairs well enough. Against a well coordinated team, however, it is meat - too slow to react and get out of harm's way.

#23 BLOODREDSINGLE

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 319 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationOklahoma, USA

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:08 AM

View PostBFalcon, on 04 December 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:


Agreed - except being hit by the AC/20 (the largest round in the game) should make you feel like your head's being unscrewed from your mech... the slow rate of fire on those, though, would make it acceptable, since the recipient has time to correct aim and fire before the next one comes in... something you can't do with a hail of AC/2 or UAC/5 rounds coming in if you're not already aiming in the right spot.





I fully agree, the small shell of the AC2 shouldn't knock like the larger shell version.... yet in this game it does.

Im a loyal 20 user and when my shot does almost no "aim" interference what so ever yet my enemies oversized machine gun torrent (cata) is slapping my torso around violently to the point that i cant even shot back something needs fixed.

#24 Imagine Dragons

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Giant Helper
  • Giant Helper
  • 1,324 posts
  • LocationLV-223

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:40 AM

View PostBFalcon, on 04 December 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

UGH you say that, but I was actually killed by an MG the other day - admittedly my centre torso was red, but those things DO chew away at the location and cause all kinds of fun with regards crits.


Err...

Crits don't work like they do on TT, MGs are really bad for crits...

Each bullet from an MG deals 0.04 damage, 10 bullets are fired per second.

Equipment in MWO have "critical health" usually its 10 hp. Crits multiply damage by 1x, 2x or 3x the criting damage...

Hence why MGs suck at critting in MWO as opposed to TT...

Just an FYI...

#25 Ryebear

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 229 posts
  • LocationMontreal

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:50 AM

AC/2s produce insane amounts of heat. Main reason I don't use them

#26 Illya Ghost Bear

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • 500 posts
  • LocationTaking your planets, eating your cookies.

Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:59 AM

View PostPanzerMagier, on 04 December 2012 - 03:30 AM, said:

Well said. I struggle hard with my quad Ac2 cataphract to make a good mech. I make do, I usually find something to focus down while my atlas buddies mop the floor ,but I've never really had a chance to "stand in the spotlight" with this mech even though I think It deserves the attention.

Now they're nerfing ac2's. Pathetic...

because a tiny little cannon round doing 1/10th the damage of an AC/20 but 10 times the rocking makes no sense whatsover?
AC/2 has long range, high rate of fire. Only 2 things not really right is how hot they get and the impact impulse. Yes you point of aim doesn't truly shift while you are being hit (from what I have experienced) but if your target is moving you can no longer see it. And ac/2 cycle so fast, it makes for constant blur screen. So now people exploit that and tie up dangerous mech with ac/2s while their team closes for kill.

#27 Felbombling

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,836 posts
  • LocationVancouver, BC

Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:10 AM

I gave a +1 for a well thought out OP, but I actually agree that the amount of screen shake for the calibre of round was way off. I have had a few glorious matches in the 4x AC/2 'Phract. It is/was a very fun build, but you knew the rate of fire was a little too high and the screen shake must have been outright distressing for your opponents.

#28 Thomas Dziegielewski

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 279 posts
  • LocationInner Sphere - St.Ives - CERES METALS, AAlcadis Revised Underground Complex, B5

Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:21 AM

Here's the new formula.


SCREENSHAKE FORCE = IMPULSE * DAMAGE

#29 Agent 0 Fortune

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 3,403 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:31 AM

AC2 can be a nasty weapon without the massive shake. At 4 DPS, it is an exceptional weapon.Removing the massive screen shake will actually make it a better weapon for its designed use, long range sniping.
Preveiously getting hit by an AC2 at 700-1200m, rocked your cockpit pretty hard, and let you know it was time to move. Now, with a less distracting plink, I think targets will be more likely to stay explosed, and let the AC2 really do some damage. Keep in mind that an AC2 only needs to stay on target for 2.5 seconds to do the same damage as a PPC for 1/2 the heat and similar tonnage).

However at closer ranges, the lack of massive cockpit rock will make them no more effective than any other 4.0 DPS weapons, which is pretty damn effective since they still have an excellent damage/weight ratio.

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 04 December 2012 - 09:32 AM.


#30 Daekar

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,214 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:34 AM

View PostThomas Dziegielewski, on 04 December 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

Here's the new formula.


SCREENSHAKE FORCE = IMPULSE * DAMAGE


Thanks, Thomas, we appreciate your sharing that!

Personally... I think the shake needed a reduction, and that they're doing the right thing.

#31 Symbiodinium

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 162 posts
  • LocationNew Zealand

Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:42 AM

View PostThomas Dziegielewski, on 04 December 2012 - 09:21 AM, said:

Here's the new formula.


SCREENSHAKE FORCE = IMPULSE * DAMAGE


And that's exactly how it should be done, both from a physics and gameplay standpoint. Good change.

#32 Mavairo

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 2,238 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:52 AM

Who seriously has issues being shaken by the AC2?

It's called Move Your Mech.

It's a suppression weapon. "but it screws up my gauss!"

That's the idea. Because frankly the AC2 is not good for anything else.

"It does the most dps potentially out of all weapons!" Only assuming you some how hit Every Shot. Not only that, in order for it to become a ''dps king'' it has to eat 4 shots every second (2 AC2). You want to tell me that you're going to connect 4 shots a second, every second for 4 seconds? Because that's the only way you're going to surpass the damage of Gauss. 16 Rounds, having to hit with all 16 vs. 1 big **** Hand.

To say nothing of the high heat of the AC2.
I dropped the AC2 from my mechs but the 1N dragon (and that's because I can't find the tonnage to get an AC5, and keep my Crotch Rockets, and LLs). Because it frankly, Sucks compared to AC5s, and AC10s. Or even LBX10s.

#33 xRaeder

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 938 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:42 AM

View PostPanchoTortilla, on 04 December 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

I wonder if all these earthquake simulator advocates would like it if AC/20 hits automatically put the victim into the 3rd person fall down stand up animation?

PGI should do that for the big ACs and PPCs so no one can play the game between the smoking, blurring, darkening, earthquaking, and falling.

No PVP game should have a CC ability that can be chained with itself to keep a player out of the entire rest of the match once it's used. That applies to MWO as well.

Either nerf the earthquakes already, or bring back the Dragon conga lines so everyone can get in on the chain stunlock games.


The AC/20 should slew your view around if it hits you in the left or right torso. If I remember correctly the AC/20 is supposed to be a 200mm round after all. That's roughly the same size as the main armament of a WW2 era German Heavy Cruiser (Admiral Hipper-class which had 20.3 cm guns). If you get hit in the CT it should push your torso up. If you are in a light Mech and get it with it the hit should be catastrophic... not only in the kind of damage it does... but it should have a chance to knock you down.

#34 stjobe

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 9,498 posts
  • LocationOn your six, chipping away at your rear armour.

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:43 AM

View PostMavairo, on 04 December 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

Because it frankly, Sucks compared to AC5s, and AC10s. Or even LBX10s.

It's supposed to suck compared to those weapons. It's the smallest of the ACs, it's advantage is supposed to be its range, not its DPS.

That it currently has higher DPS than the AC/5 and equal to the AC/10 is kind of weird; kind of like if the small laser would have higher DPS than the medium laser and equal DPS to the large laser.

#35 Bilbo

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 7,864 posts
  • LocationSaline, Michigan

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:51 AM

View PostSkyCake, on 04 December 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:


actually, i think its just the opposite... putting guass or AC20 on your atlas is a waste as these weapons usually are knocked out in the first seconds of batte... while my dual AC/2's always make it to the end of the match.... plus as you mentioned, the shaken baby syndrome you inflict on your enemies keeps them suppressed while you just pour on more of the hate...

I don't generally find this to be the case. I can usually keep my AC/20 going until I am out of ammo, or near enough to it. The guass will be another story entirely with the health being dropped.

#36 Mavairo

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 2,238 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:53 AM

stjobe: except that it really doesn't do more DPS. Well not the kind of DPS that matters which is Burst damage.

When it comes to ballistics, you want as much damage as you can squeeze into as few shots as possible. The AC2 works exactly counter to this.

2AC5s will maul someone much faster than 2 AC2s will due simply to their burst damage output. There are a whole lot less rounds required to hit the exact same point of armor to do the bulk of the damage, which is far more desirable than a weapon that spits fire rapidly, unless all you are after is Suppression fire.

The AC10, is a little lack luster mostly due to it having a slow ballistic speed compared to the AC5, and AC2 rounds in particular.

the real problem is of course just how ludicrous Gauss Fire is compared to AC weapons across the board. Too much power for too few tons, to the point where it's low ammo stores per ton, really is not as much of an issue as it should be. Especially since it generates less heat than every AC in the game.

Edited by Mavairo, 04 December 2012 - 10:58 AM.


#37 The Mad Jester

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:01 AM

If this was discussed, just repeating, but has anyone concidered the RAC? You know, the tech down the timeline where you have a mech sized gatling gun? It fire a 2, 4, or 6 round burst in a 10 second TT turn? If that tech gets into the game, ...

HOW THE *BLEEP* will the devs balance it? Current AC 2s fire at roughly a 1/2 second cyclic rate. That is roughly 20 shots in 10 seconds. Ahhhh....., problem.

Devs, you got to look at that. Even if we never see a RAC, nerfing the AC 2, Not a bad idea.

#38 Kraven Kor

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 5,434 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:01 PM

View PostThe Mad Jester, on 04 December 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

If this was discussed, just repeating, but has anyone concidered the RAC? You know, the tech down the timeline where you have a mech sized gatling gun? It fire a 2, 4, or 6 round burst in a 10 second TT turn? If that tech gets into the game, ...

HOW THE *BLEEP* will the devs balance it? Current AC 2s fire at roughly a 1/2 second cyclic rate. That is roughly 20 shots in 10 seconds. Ahhhh....., problem.

Devs, you got to look at that. Even if we never see a RAC, nerfing the AC 2, Not a bad idea.


At the current rate, we won't see RAC's for a decade; going by the canon timeline and assuming PGI never rolls time forward or breaks canon tech timelines or whatever.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 04 December 2012 - 06:01 PM.


#39 CocoaJin

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,607 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA

Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:43 PM

The AC/2s may have good DPS, but its deceptive. That DPS requires a ramp up to achieve. To really see the DPS, you have to have time of target. Initially you are only tickling the target, but left unchecked, your DPS potential starts to shine.

I personally found that the combat environment in MWO doesnt provide the opportunity to easily lay into targets for extended periods of time as frequently as a AC/2 build would like. I chose to go for a bit more burst: Dual AC/5s and Dual UAC/5s.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users