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Ppc And Er Ppc Rate Of Fire Too High? (A Question Of Fluff/flavour, Not Balance)


31 replies to this topic

Poll: How do you feel about the firing speed of the PPC? (72 member(s) have cast votes)

How do you feel about the 3 second rate of fire of PPCs? (Assume that any changes would not affect its power or game balance negatively)

  1. If feels way too fast. (5 votes [6.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.94%

  2. It feels too fast.. (15 votes [20.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.83%

  3. It feels right. (39 votes [54.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.17%

  4. It feels too slow. (4 votes [5.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

  5. It feels way too slow (2 votes [2.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.78%

  6. Lemoncurry / I don't really care (7 votes [9.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.72%

What would be a good rate of fire for the PPC

  1. More than 1 shot every 2 seconds (1 votes [1.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.39%

  2. About 1 shot every 2 seconds (4 votes [5.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.56%

  3. 1 shot every 3 seconds (the Current Rate of Fire) (30 votes [41.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.67%

  4. About 1 shot every 4 seconds (15 votes [20.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.83%

  5. About 1 shot every 5 seconds (6 votes [8.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

  6. Less than 1 shot every 5 seconds (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. I am a special snowflake (16 votes [22.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

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#1 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:32 AM

THis is a question on the PPC and ER PPC "feeling" and not on their balance:

The PPC and ER PPC have a cooldown of 3 seconds, that means you can (barring heat issues) fire them every 3 seconds.

By comparison, a Gauss Rifle and a AC/20 can fire every 4 seconds, an AC/10 every 3 seconds, an AC/2 every 0.5 seconds, a Small Laser every 3 seconds, a medium laser every 4 and a large laser every 4.25 seconds.

Generally, lower damage weapons seem to fire faster than higher damage weapons. The PPCs are instead surprisingly fast firing.

Is that how it should be? Does it feel "correct"?

I personally fire my "sniper"-like weapons to fire more slowly - you need to spend alot of time aiming anyway, so a bit more cooldown doesn't hurt much. But on the other hand, maybe a fast firing PPC gives it a more distinct feeling from other weapons.

What do you think?

#2 Voridan Atreides

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:34 AM

Too many weapons fire too fast.

Edited by Voridan Atreides, 05 December 2012 - 08:34 AM.


#3 Apoc1138

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:38 AM

PPC isn't a sniper weapon, it does less damage than a gauss and has a faster rate of fire to compensate
it's comparable to an AC/10 which actually fires on a 2.5s cooldown by the way, so if anything an AC/10 is better albeit heavier

I've always thought of a PPC as being an energy AC/10 with no ammo but heat instead
I guess the ER PPC is a bit more a sniper weapon in that it requires you to fire less by having lots of heat - which is less critical for a sniper as they are at longer range anyway (though in balance terms the ER PPC has tooo much heat in MWO)

Edited by Apoc1138, 05 December 2012 - 08:42 AM.


#4 SlightlyNoobish

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:45 AM

it's toooooo hot, that is it's problem

#5 Boogie Man

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:04 AM

If anything the Gauss Rifle shoots too fast. Now when they introduce Clan ER PPC (15 damage 15 heat) I could see maybe making that one fire at a 4 to 6 second rate. I think the I.S. PPC's are probably ok at current speed though since they are 10 damage.

#6 Atlas Freedom

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:08 AM

they need to be cooler, thanks. :D

#7 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:25 AM

View PostAtlas Freedom, on 13 December 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

they need to be cooler, thanks. :D

I agree, but this thread is more about the feel of them, not their game balance itself.

For example, I'd prefer them at a rate of fire of 1 shot per 4 seconds, I think. Same as Gauss, basically, both acting as "Sniper" weapons for their class of weapon (ballistic respectively energy). This might require upping their damage to about 13 to 14 damage per shot to balance the lower rate of fire out, but that's a seperate thing.

#8 Alilua

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:58 AM

As far as fluff/flavor goes, I think everything fires a bit too fast but the machine gun.

#9 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:04 AM

(ER) PPC fire
Recycle rate 3 seconds
Heat Dissipation rate 4 seconds (instead of 10 seconds)
This would make the PPCs solid weapons to use once again. Anything else is missing the mark.

A turn is/was 10 seconds on TT. So fire and dissipation both happened in a 10 second span!

#10 JudgeDeathCZ

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:09 AM

I think they have higher RoF than in MW4...and I think it does not matter how fast you can fire them since main limiting factor of their RoF is heat.

Edited by JudgeDeathCZ, 13 December 2012 - 05:11 AM.


#11 Rifter

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 05:59 AM

Way to slow, i should be able to fire them as fast as a machine gun.

I want it to look like one big long bolt of lightning for 600 meters as i fire into the cockpit of every damn enemy mech on the map!


just kidding other than the fact that they run a little hot they are ok, i think the cooldown time is fine.

They are not really sniper weapons the hit detection and slow projectile speed make them more useful at mid brawl ranges IMO(100-400 meters)

#12 Khobai

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:05 AM

The reason PPCs have severe heat issues is directly related to how fast they fire. PPCs need their cooldown increased and their damage increased to match.

Changing PPC/ERPPC stats to 11 damage, 4.0 cooldown, and adding the EMP hud disruption effect would be good for starters. They should also change the PPC's minimum range penalty so that it just does a flat 50% damage when fired within minimum range. Additionally, the ER PPC needs its heat reduced from 13 to 11. PPCs still wouldn't be the greatest weapons, but they would be useable then.

Edited by Khobai, 13 December 2012 - 06:08 AM.


#13 Armorpiercer M82

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:17 AM

I want bigger damage, not 10, but at least 15 for PPC, and 18 for ER PPC.

Edited by Armorpiercer M82, 13 December 2012 - 06:19 AM.


#14 Khobai

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:22 AM

Quote

I want bigger damage, not 10, but at least 15 for PPC, and 18 for ER PPC.


Thats completely unreasonable.

#15 John MatriX82

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:44 AM

I've never been using them until some time ago.. Happened once in a map to find a guy chaining fire 2 of them and he kept hitting me several consecutive times so, like an a**, I went rage menacing to report him..

Later on I discovered the 3" recycle time. I guess that the 6" or 8" recycle from MW4 times was still in my mind lol :lol:

Back in topic, I believe that actually they are good, but if Devs are going to lower heat and raise damage (something I think should be done), I'd also consider to increase the recycle time, otherwise they may become too easy to spam.

#16 Heeden

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:44 AM

As I mentioned in another thread, I'd like to see the PPC do about 12 damage every 3.5 seconds. Damage-per-second would stay about the same (small increase from 3.33 to 3.43) but it would give it the feel of a scarier knock-out-punch type weapon.

#17 Lanessar

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:50 AM

If we're talking balance, the lackluster aspect of PPCs are that they do splash damage,whereas the ballistic counterpart delivers the damage to a specific pinpoint location.

However, as far as ROF, it feels about right. Mind you, this is in perspective of how quickly every other weapon fires. They could make it fire every 6 seconds and double the damage.

You can't really talk about changing RoF without talking about balancing. If the PPC fired once every 8 seconds without a damage increase, it would be dead as a weapon. No one would take it since you can deliver that damage in a 10-second period for 1/3rd the heat with an AC2 - and have all the damage in (relatively) one spot. So this post confuses me a bit.

#18 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:55 AM

View PostLanessar, on 13 December 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

You can't really talk about changing RoF without talking about balancing. If the PPC fired once every 8 seconds without a damage increase, it would be dead as a weapon. No one would take it since you can deliver that damage in a 10-second period for 1/3rd the heat with an AC2 - and have all the damage in (relatively) one spot. So this post confuses me a bit.

Just assume that the ROF change would bring some other advantage to the weapon to not make it weaker. obviously you can't change ROF without affecting the weapon's performance.

#19 MaddMaxx

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:42 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 13 December 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

(ER) PPC fire
Recycle rate 3 seconds
Heat Dissipation rate 4 seconds (instead of 10 seconds)
This would make the PPCs solid weapons to use once again. Anything else is missing the mark.

A turn is/was 10 seconds on TT. So fire and dissipation both happened in a 10 second span!


Pretty sure you can't change a weapons Heat dissipation rate as they don't have one. They generate, HS's dissipate. (or did you mean the whole Heat Scale to (.4 vs .1) :ph34r:

In TT, iirc, Heat was all generated and stored until the end of the Turn. Then the base dissipation values were subtracted, and the remaining Heat overage, was put against the Heat Chart for possible next turn deficits (if any).

Damage increase should not happen either. That just infringes on other weapons and does nothing positive in the long run.

I would wait now for the Projectile Speed increase and see how that helps. Obviously, landing more shots consistently will benefit the weapons over-all damage output by proxy. :lol:

Edited by MaddMaxx, 13 December 2012 - 07:43 AM.


#20 Lanessar

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:53 AM

View PostMustrumRidcully, on 13 December 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

Just assume that the ROF change would bring some other advantage to the weapon to not make it weaker. obviously you can't change ROF without affecting the weapon's performance.


Wish my brain would let me do that. However, the devs haven't been good with math on this subject to date, so you'll forgive my suspicious nature. :lol:





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