17 replies to this topic

[God Mech]

G'day everyone,

There has been multiple topics covering light OPness. I am covering old ground but hopefully from a different stand point.

Personal experience:

I have been in beta since early July, and I have had the opportunity to try all Mechs in PUG and in premades. I consider myself to be a half decent pilot (not amazing by any stretch, but know the tricks of the trade both in and out of premades.)

For the last 2 months I have mostly been PUGging. I have realised, there isn't often a great deal of benefit relaying information as a scout; because at this stage, most people are still new to the game and would rather play their own game (not work in with their team in order to achieve some sort of structure.) So I have resorted to the "go with the flow" type play; wherein I watch my map and get the general direction in which my team is moving, and follow suit.

Over this time I have realised as far as PUGs go, I have fun no matter what Mech I am in; but if I am planning on topping the tables, and also providing my team the best chance at victory, there is only one mech for me: the JENNA.

The measure is use is K/D ratio, and Win / lose. If I play a JENNA, both move in my favour. The commando provides my with a positive figure also, but not as fast as JENNA. If I use any other mech, I start going in the other direction.

What I want to know is, are there people out there that prefer to pilot other mechs, that find they have a positive affect on PUG games? I have played other mechs for lengthy periods, and find I can't perform:(


Over to you guys!



P.S Thought I'd get in before anyone comments; lag shield could still play a major part in this, and I don't deny it.

[The Cheese]

Sounds to me like you're just a better pilot in a light than the larger, slower classes. Nothing wrong with that.

[MangoBogadog]

I have to agree with the OP, I certainly feel as though I can effect the course of a battle slightly more in pug matches in a Jenner than any other chassais.

Having said that every now and again people actually listen and/or make a plan which is even more constructive to a victory.

But to be honest if your new to the game and someone said "lets go G line" you'd be thinking you just dropped into the wrong game

[Blark]

@Op:

I feel the same way about the jenner, it's been my workhorse since the first time I tried it.

For me its the safest choice in a pug because I can fill almost every role with it: enough speed to cap or prevent capping, enough firepower and maneuverability to take on any opponent solo or assist team mates etc...

When playing something bigger you simply have to rely more on your team, because you need someone to protect you from lights, you wont be able to rush back to the base in order to prevent a cap in an Atlas for instance etc.

Imho the tradeoff is that lights take more skill to pilot then heavies.

[Alex Wolfe]

Lag shield for survivability and small laser array allowing for huge damage with minimal heat.

Jenner's easily the top 3 mech right now, but a lot of it is due to the netcode, convergence issues and imbalances. If bigger weapons could land hits on lights more reliably (leading with arm-mounted guns is completely random because of how convergence currently works, and you need to shoot way ahead of the mech because of no lag compensation), you'd see lights' numbers dropping for sure.

Also, if small lasers weren't so incredibly heat/time efficient, Jenners wouldn't be able to gut bigger mechs in one go, they'd have to disengage and cool down first.

Now, I'm not saying you're not a good pilot, OP. I wouldn't know. All I'm saying is that the game is stacked towards Jenners now, so you see tons of them in games, yourself included.

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 13 October 2012 - 02:58 AM.

[B1zmark]

I think this feeling may relate to the effectiveness of certain weapon groups and scaling (based on damage per ton).

Lasers feel for me to be the best all round weapon at the moment - large lasers don't scale very well however. Small lasers do good damage (given a JEN can fit 6 of them on certain hulls...) and are only 0.5/1 ton. Moving up to a 7ton large laser doesn't reap the benefits as much as you'd think...

Now factor in LRM's - they where buffed and can pick heavy+ mechs apart... but light mechs can dodge these. This against gives light mechs another advantage in terms of useability.

I could go into more detail, but the final point i'll make is: Gauss rifles. They are the only large weapon i think really do themself justice. Good range, massive damage, very accurate, no heat. Some people think the Gauss needs to be nerfed, but i think other large weapons simply need to be buffed to be more inline with it. When you really geek it out and work out, per ton, the large weapons aren't that great... you may aswell drop a few DPS and get into a light hull for triple your heavies speed.

Try a dragon with an XL 360 and see what i mean. When your heavy gets back all that speed but can still fit some medium+ guns, it feels amazing.

TL:DR

Heavy weapons need more damage per ton.

Edited by B1zmark, 13 October 2012 - 02:56 AM.

[God Mech]

B1zmark, on 13 October 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

I think this feeling may relate to the effectiveness of certain weapon groups and scaling (based on damage per ton).

Lasers feel for me to be the best all round weapon at the moment - large lasers don't scale very well however. Small lasers do good damage (given a JEN can fit 6 of them on certain hulls...) and are only 0.5/1 ton. Moving up to a 7ton large laser doesn't reap the benefits as much as you'd think...

Now factor in LRM's - they where buffed and can pick heavy+ mechs apart... but light mechs can dodge these. This against gives light mechs another advantage in terms of useability.

I could go into more detail, but the final point i'll make is: Gauss rifles. They are the only large weapon i think really do themself justice. Good range, massive damage, very accurate, no heat. Some people think the Gauss needs to be nerfed, but i think other large weapons simply need to be buffed to be more inline with it. When you really geek it out and work out, per ton, the large weapons aren't that great... you may aswell drop a few DPS and get into a light hull for triple your heavies speed.

Try a dragon with an XL 360 and see what i mean. When your heavy gets back all that speed but can still fit some medium+ guns, it feels amazing.

TL:DR

Heavy weapons need more damage per ton.

I agree that other weapons should be brought up a notch. Better AC convergence, slightly less med laser heat etc.

BTW large laser = 5 tonne:P

[Gniewomir]

God Mech, on 13 October 2012 - 02:17 AM, said:

What I want to know is, are there people out there that prefer to pilot other mechs, that find they have a positive affect on PUG games? I have played other mechs for lengthy periods, and find I can't perform:(

The answer to your doubts is speed. In Jenner, fast HBK etc. you can correct your team mistakes by clearing the base, distracting advancing enemy mechs, harassing LRM/Gauss boats etc. If you are average pilot by my standards, that means that you are better than 80% of random players. In fast mech you can be & help everywhere where your help is needed, in slower machine you have to push your lane and pray that there are other competent players in your team.

[Kelpaz]

I tried different mechs but I always fall back on using my version of the silly Streak Catapult.
I began with an Cat-K2 with large lasers and found unarming mechs to be fun with precision fire.
As for the machineguns they feel more like annoyance makers than anything else.

After using an LRM catapult I always found these streak cats running up close and once after me I could never shake them off the same goes for lights.

So I made a copy of the infamous Streak-Cat myself because I wanted to see what it was like.
After a few iterations I came up with a Catapult A1 that has 8 tons of ammo 80Km/h speed and jumpjets, it's just too much fun.
It is as fast as a stock dragon and can overwhelm enemies.
The downside of Streaks are ofcourse 270m range, but speed and tactics makes it exiting to close in on targets, while trying to remain unseen. (No not a reference to unseen mechs lol)

I've tried out the founders Hunchback, but it feels so backwards in technology, can't make anything decent or supportive with ballistics on that, piloting a Hunchie makes me feel like I am filler material.

I would use lasers more again when a good laser mech, that has mobility is announced, until then the K2 is my choice of laser mech because of arm placement preference, and that it has just enough speed, to keep up.

Edited by Kelpaz, 13 October 2012 - 05:46 AM.

[FerretGR]

I actually feel pretty much opposite to the OP... I actually feel like I have less impact in a light when PUGging... Like you say, PUGs typically don't benefit from the scouting to a great degree, so there's that function of the mech gone, and while my survivability might be better based on my speed and piloting, I don't score many kills and usually do between 100-150 damage, too little to really help my PUG. Compare that to my Awesome, or Founders Cat, both of which I'm sure I average about 400 damage, and it's obvious that I'm more help to my PUG in larger mechs. But in the end, I think a good light pilot is just as valuable as I am in my heavies, I just don't fit that bill

Edited by FerretGR, 13 October 2012 - 08:14 AM.

[DLO]

Jenner's are similar to, and forgive the reference to other MMO's, a rogue class of sorts.

They are elusive because of their speed and are great at supporting and spotting.

With that being said the reason why you are doing better in a Jenner in a PUG situation is because most other people are not going to pick a Jenner, therefore you are adding a role that isn't inherently there in a PUG and are giving your team the edge in having a balanced group.

I think it speaks to the great work that this game has done emphasizing balance and group composition as a team with a light is going to fair better than one without.

I don't think they are OP in any way and I think they add a lot to every group they are in.

[Lege]

I feel like the best mech I play is the hunchback 4J.
I often get 2-3 kills with it and change the playing field with it.
Jenners only real weakness is getting tripped right now.
I still see 1-3 Jenners most matches. Them and catapults seem to be the most played right now.
Speed will always be good and Jenners running 140 kph are a pain to hit.
They always have the speed to get to base caps.

[Bogus]

I think a lot of it is that there's not a lot of weapon selection right now, so it's hard to pwn lights with larger mechs. That and the general lack of aiming ****. Personally, as a MW3/MW4 vet I think it's kind of cool that light mechs are actually not sucky.

[Telecleez]

Everyone pretty much has a weight class they are good in... as someone else said nothing wrong with that... i kinda seem to work pretty good with light/med/heavy (depending on my mood i guess) but i suck totally in assaults so i stick with what i'm good at but at least you can admit that you're not some uber-mech-gawd.

[Freeride Forever]

Whenever I'm feeling down about the results of a new, heavier build, or if I need to start making some $, I can always count on Jennifer. She's mah baby. I saved a losing match where there were 2 of us left to the enemy's 4 & I think there was a bit of luck in there bacause we didn't get swarmed too bad. They were comin' for our base & I just laid 'em out 1 by 1. Over 800 damage that match. I've had 700 & 800 damages a few times lately & routinely do over 300-400. I used to run a 400XL Awesome & a 400XL Sway & used to slaughter with those too. I ran 7 SLs on the Sway & 3 SRM6's on the Awesome. It's the speed. If you know its advantages (as has already been stated here) & its disadvantages & exploit & avoid accordingly, then you will be a bane to the enemy & a boon to yo' posse. I don't know that they're OP, but they are versatile & that's why I play them. They fall down easily, they can't stand still for very long unless you are reeeeaaally well aware of your surroundings & the speed that makes them hard to hit also makes it hard to avoid collisions. Large weapons are not a viable option. SL's need to be inside of 180m to do any damage & inside 90m for max damage. With lasers you need to hold on one spot for the full value of the weapon to be realized & that's pretty hard to do runnin' at those speeds & trying not to collide with others. When you get in close to use those lasers & you're targeting your enemy, if LRM's are coming in then you're highly likely to get hit. I think the complaints about them being OP is from the likelihood that players who know what they're doing will pilot them more often than newer players will. Some think bigger is better, some think more expensive is better & that's fine with me. The scariest mech for me right now are other Jenners because now the light trial is a Raven. So someone in a Jenner now is more likely to have some experience. The only reason I engage them is if they force me to, or if they seem slower than me or like they don't really know what they're doing, or if I have support with me or in some rare cases I'll do it because I don't want to risk chasing an easier target only to have the Jenner hitting me in the back while I'm tunneling through one of his homies. I also avoid Catapults too though, unless they're only carrying LRM's (which I'm seeing quite a bit of lately & it's just stupid), because their torso can twist so far.

I do think lasers tend to be the best weapon for all around use but especially on a fast moving mech because it's easy to waste ammo when it's hard to line up shots. On the other hand lasers need to stay on one spot to be effective & you need practice for that. I definitely find that in PUG's my Jennifer makes the biggest impact because I have the ability to do whatever is needed according to situational changes & I'm familiar enough with her weaknesses to stay alive long enough to fill those needs. I gotta admit though, I sometimes can't resist the urge to slow down or stop to tear out the back of someone without knowing whether I'm being lined up at the same time & it gets me more often than not. For me that temptation is our biggest weakness. It's like a boozer in front of a bottle of whiskey. He may know he shouldn't but the temptation is soooo strong.

Edited by Freeride Forever, 13 October 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[MangoBogadog]

FerretGR, on 13 October 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

I actually feel pretty much opposite to the OP... I actually feel like I have less impact in a light when PUGging... Like you say, PUGs typically don't benefit from the scouting to a great degree, so there's that function of the mech gone, and while my survivability might be better based on my speed and piloting, I don't score many kills and usually do between 100-150 damage, too little to really help my PUG. Compare that to my Awesome, or Founders Cat, both of which I'm sure I average about 400 damage, and it's obvious that I'm more help to my PUG in larger mechs. But in the end, I think a good light pilot is just as valuable as I am in my heavies, I just don't fit that bill

It all depends on where you do that damage, go for the back armor, headshots on large cockpit mechs etc. You'll find that you can quite easily get 2 or 3 kills by yourself with only 200 overall damage at the end of the game.

I also think its great that a light mech can be a very powerful player on the battlefield, depending on decision making and pilot skill.

About the shield lag, I really dont find it to be a problem specific to lights, occasionally I do see a light mech warp running and obviously there is a lag issue, but I am able to hit speeding Jenners (that don't dodge) fairly easily using a gaussapult and leading the shot. I was in a match the other day and brawling with a Dragon and I couldn't hit his massive central torso for **** with 4 pulse lasers, I mean the aiming reticule was dead on, the lasers certainly looked like they impacted the correct area yet everytime the dragons arms flashed on my damage indicator. After the dragon pilot killed me I checked the pings and the dragon pilot was about 35ms, mine was around 95ms... Neither of which I would call bad, that was really the first time I experienced a very obvious lag issue where the opponent was not warping at all.

Edited by MangoBogadog, 14 October 2012 - 05:32 AM.

[Calon Farstar]

It comes down to what you are best at piloting. I do best tih 80+kph mechs. My favorite is a 90kph 4SP that I do more damage with and get more kills with than my founders Atlas. I also find that I am way more usefull on the battlefield as I can control larger areas of land stand toe to toe with any Assault and not get out manuvered by any thing less than 3 lights. 3 light mechs tough and I am in a world of hurt. But then again 2 light mechs can take on almost any assault and win 90% of the time. I do also have an ECM equiped 146kph Raven that I used in PUG games where If my team mates suck I can avoid being slaughtered by and still be either combat effective or better yet combat ANNOYING!

[JimSuperBleeder]

With the integration of a elo based matchingmaking system I feel it should fix some of the woes of the current pug system.

Because lets be honest, I am a solo player and I'll defend the pug play style. However with the exception to some great solo pilots; playing in pug matched feels like being involved in a sick government experiment where they put wild chimps in big mechs to see what would happen.

Balance to the game hopefully will come with the coming patch.