68 replies to this topic

[KharnZor]

I have no problem killing ravens. My lag generally cancels out their lag.
What you dont want to see is an Australian in a maxed out trollmando. Thats a lag shield and one of the reasons i only bring mine out very very rarely.

[Exoth3rmic]

For me there seems to be a lot of damgage "slip" on all the light mechs. Lasers illustrate this quite well as they don't apply all their damage on connecting straight away and with a combination of both weapons platform and opposing mech movement means any hits on the mech tend to pepper many hit boxes rather than simply the one initially intended as well as simply missing.

This means, effectively, that for some weapon systems light mechs do take more volleys than larger counter parts. Twin this then with a netcode that currently favours faster moving objects then their "lag shield" confers even more survivability.

Ballistics and SRMS are great when they connect as there's little damage slip but ofc they all have their own issues, convergence and spread as an example.

Given a lot of lasers are designed for short range combat and left in a lot of mechs as their only viable defence vs lights, its unfortunate that the lights currently get the benefit of non-weapon based issues such as damage slip, netcode and hitboxing issues that all other classes in the game do not.

If lasers applied all their damage on one impact it'd be harder to write rude things in the snow, but it'd certainly get rid of a lot of the issues people have with applying damage to lights.

Just as and edit, the reason I bring this up is there are some things that don't translate well in this engine from TT and previous games and thus simply expecting that the current armor numbers on a light will make it as effective (or less effective) as in previous iterations does not mean it shouldn't be fiddled with. I see a lot of light pilots on this forum attempting to re-create past adventures and finding, as they say themselves, that its not the same experience currently.

Edited by Exoth3rmic, 23 December 2012 - 02:59 PM.

[Sug]

Tennex, on 18 December 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

yeah same thing happens to me lol. i think its the netcode or bad hit detection

This is the first time i'm hearing about this.

[PiemasterXL]

Yes.

[Ivanzypher]

I've also noticed slow moving or even stationary Ravens take a stupid amount of damage without dying. I remember a round in my Dakkaphract (dual UAC5s) where me and two other teammates were shooting a raven at a point. He ran into the point, stopping himself dead. He was stationary for a good 6-7 seconds, which should have been plenty of time for us to destroy him. Did that happen? No..... we took off one arm......Then he ran away.

There seems to be something going on with the chassis, but because of the lagshield all lights have currently it's going unnoticed. Still, I definately think something is off with the Raven.

[Void Angel]

Green Mamba, on 20 December 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

Havent heard anything so far from the Devs on this

Have you been reading patch notes? =) The devs have people working solely on the code, and hope to be able to roll it out in January.

Balsover, on 23 December 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

I don't believe lag is the total issue with Ravens, although it does make it harder to hit. But you can hit a Raven with a Gauss, or AC20, it registers the hit, the Raven takes damage. But they don't take as much damage as they should.

I'm told Ravens have very narrow hitboxes on their torsos, and the upper part of their leg boxes are easy to hit with a torso shot, or so I'm told - thus, it's easy to spread damage over multiple locations. Since the Raven has the second-heaviest armor of the scout mechs (and faster than the Cicada, to boot) this spread effect accounts for their amazing durability relative to other scouts - it's almost the same as if all their armor was in one location. That's part of why you see them with multiple amber/red armor locations and no appreciable internal damage. I haven't heard about their boxes having actual holes between them before this post; I'll bear it in mind, but for now I'm treating it as an interesting rumor.

Narcisoldier, on 23 December 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

The lagshield is a complete myth that is a holdover from the closed beta days when lights would literally teleport from point to point. If you have a fast internet connection and you live in North America, you will generally hit what you aim at.

The actual reason that the raven seems to take so much damage is that it's fast, small, and maneuverable. When I'm being shot at in my raven, I make sure that I spread that damage out all over my chassis and even onto my teammates by retreating back into the friendly blob.

You, sir, are quite simply an ignoramus - and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt. Lag shields are quite real, and an empirically verifiable reality at that. If you shoot at the model of a light mech that is moving across your field of view at high speed, you will not hit it. You will SEEM to hit it - you'll see weapon effects and nifty explosions. But you won't actually deal damage to the mech. This is because the mech's actual location (and therefore its hit boxes) is not being reported properly. I have a fast internet connection, and I live in North America. I still have to aim at a magical, invisible ghost mech in order to hit any fast mover. The only way I know if I'm hitting is when my reticle turns red - and it only does that while I'm firing. So ballistic weapons are a matter of luck with any deflection shot on a target, and I always lose some laser damage.

Allow me to set you straight. You are not experiencing the success you have just because you are good. You are not hard to kill simply because you use your speed and maneuverability to full advantage. You may indeed possess these qualities and skills, but that is not the keystone of your success. The core of what you are able to do is provided by the netcode - it is the magical ability to appear to be in a different place than you are, and force others to guess when they shoot at you. This ability is documented; it's in the patch notes as something the Devs are working feverishly to fix - with such a high level of urgency that they take time in their patch notes to assure us that the new content they are releasing is not slowing down the rate at which this existing problem is being fixed.

Be warned: the issue is solvable, and they will fix it. When that day comes, it's going to hurt.

Edited by Void Angel, 23 December 2012 - 03:11 PM.

[RighteousHand]

You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. I for one cannot wait for the day the netcode is fixed and all these 'roach-like and delusional ECM Raven and Commando pilots get their due (alpha-strikes to the face all round).

Void Angel, on 23 December 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Have you been reading patch notes? =) The devs have people working solely on the code, and hope to be able to roll it out in January.


I'm told Ravens have very narrow hitboxes on their torsos, and the upper part of their leg boxes are easy to hit with a torso shot, or so I'm told - thus, it's easy to spread damage over multiple locations. Since the Raven has the second-heaviest armor of the scout mechs (and faster than the Cicada, to boot) this spread effect accounts for their amazing durability relative to other scouts - it's almost the same as if all their armor was in one location. That's part of why you see them with multiple amber/red armor locations and no appreciable internal damage. I haven't heard about their boxes having actual holes between them before this post; I'll bear it in mind, but for now I'm treating it as an interesting rumor.


You, sir, are quite simply an ignoramus - and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt. Lag shields are quite real, and an empirically verifiable reality at that. If you shoot at the model of a light mech that is moving across your field of view at high speed, you will not hit it. You will SEEM to hit it - you'll see weapon effects and nifty explosions. But you won't actually deal damage to the mech. This is because the mech's actual location (and therefore its hit boxes) is not being reported properly. I have a fast internet connection, and I live in North America. I still have to aim at a magical, invisible ghost mech in order to hit any fast mover. The only way I know if I'm hitting is when my reticle turns red - and it only does that while I'm firing. So ballistic weapons are a matter of luck with any deflection shot on a target, and I always lose some laser damage.

Allow me to set you straight. You are not experiencing the success you have just because you are good. You are not hard to kill simply because you use your speed and maneuverability to full advantage. You may indeed possess these qualities and skills, but that is not the keystone of your success. The core of what you are able to do is provided by the netcode - it is the magical ability to appear to be in a different place than you are, and force others to guess when they shoot at you. This ability is documented; it's in the patch notes as something the Devs are working feverishly to fix - with such a high level of urgency that they take time in their patch notes to assure us that the new content they are releasing is not slowing down the rate at which this existing problem is being fixed.

Be warned: the issue is solvable, and they will fix it. When that day comes, it's going to hurt.

[o0Marduk0o]

Green Mamba, on 18 December 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

I can't get over when they are moving slow or even Stationary they wont go down

If a Jenner overheats and stops you can kill it though,doesnt seem near as easy with the ravens

Then you can't aim, seriously. I have no problems hitting Ravens.

[Orgasmo]

Raven is a small target with fast speed, making them difficult to hit moving at full speed. Add server side detection to the equation means they also have latency working on their side as opposed to slower and larger mechs. Lastly, the ECM tops it off, making the Raven almost untouchable even if it runs circles around a group of enemy mechs. You can get a few glancing shots off them with laser, but that barely does any damage. Unless they stopped or moving in a straight line towards you, they are extremely difficult to hit.