74 replies to this topic

[Comassion]

Skyfaller, on 18 December 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Unfortunately the devs didn't interpret the canon correctly nor apparently make the mech jump that much.

120m is the equivalent of a building with 100 floors. Do we jump to that height in the MWO? Hell no.

The mechs in MWO BARELY jump up 60m burning all fuel on the way up.

That's not vertical jump capability, it's horizontal distance. I don't know how far you can go on a full-out jump at the moment, but it's pretty far.

[hammerreborn]

Tickdoff Tank, on 18 December 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

If you mech could mount JJs then you always mounted 1 just for the mobility... And that was the problem. There was no trade off for using the JJs, and there should be. With the fix today, Jenners are going ot have to decide if they want that jumping ability or if they can not spare the tonnage. Same with the Catapults and Cataphracts. Will be interesting to see what happens.

There is a trade off. No jj mechs get ECM, and JJs on cataphract and catapult sucks balls, let alone the hard points on those particular variants.

The worst part of this change is the maximum limit of JJs for each mech. That **** is garbage. So much for having a spider with 12 or more JJs

[zhajin]

Skyfaller, on 18 December 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

120m is the equivalent of a building with 100 floors.

um no not even close....

most large buildings have about 1 meter from finish ceiling to finish floor.

Edited by zhajin, 18 December 2012 - 02:14 PM.

[BumbleBee]

Yeah, most buildings have a floor to ceiling height of approx 3m

[SpiralRazor]

maximum jump jets is a bit dumb, but i can see it for balancing purposes.


Jump jets on the A1 were killer bro, not sure what you were talking about....84kph made those JJs quite versatile.

Were...until ECM ruined missiles.

[Lefty Lucy]

I'm guessing most people are going to be removing JJ from their mech entirely, maybe other than some catapult builds that have tons of extra weight lying around.

[stjobe]

Skyfaller, on 18 December 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

120m is the equivalent of a building with 100 floors.

No, it would be more like 35 floors.

100 floors, that's the Empire State Building at 443 meters (381 meters without spire).

Either way, 30 meters is the horizontal distance per jump jet, IIRC my BT rules correctly the vertical distance is 6 meters (1 elevation level) per jump jet.

[Urza Mechwalker]

Jump jets should always work for 10 seconds. Regardless of nunmber of them. But the nubmer should change drastically the acceleration and speed durin those 10 seconds.

Why 10 seconds ? its 1 turn in TT. Also I wishthe jump jets accelerated faster at start then reduced your speed at end. WOuld give us a far more interesting flight.

Also JJ controls. PLease give a look a hawken COCNEPT, there things are over exagerated, but the capability of controllign the diretion of jump is NEEDED, In TT you can do it, and in MW2 you coudl do it, we need it here.

[Corvus Antaka]

Deadoon, on 18 December 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

4jj by canon gives you 120 meters of jump capacity.

This is a good point. Jumpjets need to feel more powerful with more thrust at the start. fuel needs to be added for each jet, and mechs that take the max JJ allotment need to be able to catch some serious air, especially light mechs.

Add in DFA and a whole new dimension of mechwarrior will be upon us...in a good way.

Also..the Empire state building is 455 meters. I would expect a Jenner to be able to jump 120m using that as a guide.

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 18 December 2012 - 02:10 PM.

[Skyscream Sapphire]

BumbleBee, on 18 December 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

Yeah, most buildings have a floor to ceiling height of approx 3m

He's off by about a factor of 3, but 30-40 stories is still about 20-30 stories higher than the Catapult can jump right now, so I think the point is valid.

We'll see how effective they are when I get in game...but this fix without a respective buff is probably going to make jump jets not worth the tonnage. Hell in Mechwarrior 2 if you had full jump jets you might as well have been an airplane for about 30 seconds. I don't want to see that in this game, but hopefully something more than the current "oh damn, I almost made it on top of the shortest obstacle I can't walk onto" implementation if you actually dedicate the tonnage to a full load out.

[Pale Jackal]

If we need to spend 4 tons to get our old jump capacity in 'mechs like the Catapult and Cataphract, then I won't be using them.

Jump jets are awesome in Tabletop because they make you faster and allow you to cover more ground.

Jump jets in MWO make you SLOWER. Jump jets in MWO allow you some mobility, a tighter turn radius, and I find damage tends to get spread around more if I use Jump Jets. Not worth 4 tons .... I'll only use them if I have spare tonnage and a lack of critical slots for heatsinks.

[Bagheera]

Khobai, on 18 December 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

Because if you have to spend 4 times the weight on jumpjets there is absolutely no reason to take them... unless they buffed them.

Except that previously all that was needed was 1 JJ to do the job that was supposed to be 4 or in some cases 5. This is a bug (borderline exploit) fix. Nothing to see here, time for folks who were running builds with 1 JJ to come clean and mount the rest.

The numbers will be tuned, but let's not pretend that the prior performance of 1 JJ is some sort of actual benchmark.

Edited by Bagheera, 18 December 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[Noodlesoup]

Skyfaller, on 18 December 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Unfortunately the devs didn't interpret the canon correctly nor apparently make the mech jump that much.

120m is the equivalent of a building with 100 floors. Do we jump to that height in the MWO? Hell no.

The mechs in MWO BARELY jump up 60m burning all fuel on the way up.

lol 120m != 100 floors.

120m ~= 360 feet

being generous and averaging 12 feet per floor gives you 30 floors at max.

and again, as someone else has mentioned, the JJ distance is a measure of both horizontal and vertical range.

nowhere in ANY canon or fluff text do you see mechs jumping 100 story buildings.

current implementation works great as HEIGHT is a huge tactical advantage considering the limited vertical torso/arm range on many mechs. i used jump jets to great effect to gain tactical advantage over opponents or to get me clearance over obstacles for firing.

jumpjets != ninja boosters. these are LARGE machines with lots of inertia. jump jets are reaction boosters that provide vertical thrust, they are NOT magic "make me go faster" jet engines like some of the other MW games implemented.

find me a source that states jumpjets were used to make a mech scoot faster along the ground or accelerate at ninja speeds.

[Stingz]

hammerreborn, on 18 December 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

The worst part of this change is the maximum limit of JJs for each mech. That **** is garbage. So much for having a spider with 12 or more JJs

Spider-5V already has default 8 Jets, why would you need more I dunno.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Nice to see Jets finally fixed. 1 less way that Trials get the shaft. They should make it so that each one gives you part of the fuel bar, meaning you need to slot max unless you want a smaller fuel gage. I "think" that's what they're doing but the notes aren't clear.

Edited by Bluten, 18 December 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[Lanessar]

In a Jenner, I think I've used my JJ perhaps three times to get over anything higher than another Jenner.

90% of the time, you just use them for quick course changes, not vertical jumps.

[CoolLew]

In table top Battletech, didn't the weight of the jump jet depend on the weight of the mech? Wasn't light mechs jump jets only .5 tons, while jump jets on an Assault like 2 tons each? Maybe I thinking of total weight or something, or maybe I'm just an *****.

However, I have always loved JJ, but only if you could control your flight direction.

[Deadoon]

hammerreborn, on 18 December 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

The worst part of this change is the maximum limit of JJs for each mech. That **** is garbage. So much for having a spider with 12 or more JJs

jjs were always equal to walking speed.
engine divided by mech weight=walking speed and jj capacity.

CoolLew, on 18 December 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

In table top Battletech, didn't the weight of the jump jet depend on the weight of the mech? Wasn't light mechs jump jets only .5 tons, while jump jets on an Assault like 2 tons each? Maybe I thinking of total weight or something, or maybe I'm just an *****.

However, I have always loved JJ, but only if you could control your flight direction.

20-55 .5 ton
60-85 1 ton
90-100 2 tons.
Yes, as it does in this game If i remember correctly.

Edited by Deadoon, 18 December 2012 - 02:27 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Lanessar, on 18 December 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

In a Jenner, I think I've used my JJ perhaps three times to get over anything higher than another Jenner.

90% of the time, you just use them for quick course changes, not vertical jumps.

Then don't slot all of them. But some people like being able to jump buildings in Frozen City or make long leaps.

[Leetskeet]

Lefty Lucy, on 18 December 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

I'm guessing most people are going to be removing JJ from their mech entirely, maybe other than some catapult builds that have tons of extra weight lying around.

Basically.

Unless they're real jumpjets that actually propel you quickly like a JUMP, then they're not worth more than one ton. I'm still downloading this patch but 4 or 5 tons for floatjets just isn't going to happen.

MWLL jumpjets would be worth a couple tons.