74 replies to this topic

[Zoberraz]

I was running with one. Noticed how that handled rather pathetically, and gamely sacrificed some of my Jenner's heatsinks to go back to how much I could fit in.

At first, puzzled that the limit was 5, since I saw it related to 'walking mp', and my 300 XL gave me at least 8.

Then, I ran it in-game, and was immediately disappointed - this was quite inferior to the baseline we were accustomed to. This seriously made me secondguess how I valued a jump-capable mech like the Jenner versus the mostly ground-bound Raven or Cicada. I find this disconcerting.

I know the jumpjets in Mechwarrior 2 were a little bit too powerful, but out of any Mechwarrior game I thought they were the most fun to use. Still, I thought they were reasonable in contrast to tabletop - I tabletop, winning the initiative and having a fair number of jumpjets not only implied a lot of all-terrain maneuverability, but also the possibility of blindsiding opponents and blasting at their rear armor.

Unfortunately, Mechwarrior 3 and 4 broke that by treating jumpjets more like... mechanical jump boosters. Mechwarrior Online seems to be going along the same way.

PGI, you really don't have to.

Edited by Zoberraz, 18 December 2012 - 04:06 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

Skyfaller, on 18 December 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Unfortunately the devs didn't interpret the canon correctly nor apparently make the mech jump that much.

120m is the equivalent of a building with 100 floors. Do we jump to that height in the MWO? Hell no.

The mechs in MWO BARELY jump up 60m burning all fuel on the way up.

This has already been accurately refuted but, since I already had it in multi-quote queue. I figured I'd leave it. You can always maintain the hope that you will... erm... encourage people to get a freakin clue before posting.

Pale Jackal, on 18 December 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

Jump jets are awesome in Tabletop because they make you faster and allow you to cover more ground.

Jump jets in MWO make you SLOWER.

Again, already correctly refuted. What can I say? I have hope for the human/online condition.

Thontor, on 18 December 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

as for MWO jets, I do wish that they allowed some mid-air maneuverability.. turn in mid air (using fuel at a slower rate) then apply thrust again (with spacebar) and it would move you in the new direction you are facing.

That's what the Highlander is for. Canonically, miniatures in TT were never meant to be correct representations of the space the mech occupied. The mech was simply supposed to be somewhere​ in that 90m hex, so the fact you could jump any direction doesn't necessarily mean you could control direction while airborne. You've never been able to curve your jump in TT, which is what people are really asking for. The Highlander was actually supposed to be unique (at least at this time in the storyline) for having directional JJs.

Bluten, on 18 December 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

I used 1 JJ like everyone it. Being competitive is smart. Handicapping yourself isn't. But I always wanted them to fix it.

This.

I'll keep them on every mech that can use them and be glad of the fix, even if I only keep 1-2 for softening falls and tighter turns.

[hammerreborn]

Thontor, on 18 December 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

Also, everyone, don't forget this line from the patch notes:

Doesn't mean the trajectory has to be absolute *** right off the bat. And as there is no patch for at least another 2-3 weeks they should fix this **** sooner than later.

[wolf74]

Correction to some missinfo on cbt jumpjets.
A jumpjet would give 30m jump at a 6m peak.
4 jumpjets would give you the following options:
120m length with a 6m peak.
90m length with a 12m peak.
60m length with a 18m peak.
30m length with a 24m peak.

As you can see the jumpjet will give 6m height or 30m length but not both pass the 1st jumpjet.

Edited by wolf74, 18 December 2012 - 04:32 PM.

[Asmosis]

I only use them currently for getting up steeper inclines or softening landings. So long as they still fill that function i'll stick to 1, or remove it if it doesnt.

I also use them to bunny hop over allies if we're about to collide in close quarters.

Edited by Asmosis, 18 December 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

chong, on 18 December 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

There was always a limit in how many jjs you can have on a mech in the tabletop game

Well there are practical reasons to stick to table top, and table top rules were the way they were for practical reasons. But in an actual mech simulation you might have to look at things a different way to make them work.

Ravens and Catapults use Jump Jets not for heel nipping and tiny leaps like those stinking Jenners. RVNs and CPLTs use JJs for getting position for missile sighting, attack positioning and recon. Without that, wtf?

Maybe most Jenny jumpers can get by because they were afraid of heights, but I need my air. It twists my skull to see people saying this was the "fix".

[Fooooo]

Its great they are finally fixed.


I still think they should be more powerful or agile. At least on a few selected mechs......or for the mechs where a few variants have JJ's you could give them different power ratings......

Example............. say all the cicadas could use JJ's. 1 of them would have the ability to turn in flight and be more agile, whilst the others are stuck with the less agile jets.


Catapaults & other heavier mechs would not be as agile in the air as say a spider etc etc.

The spider should probably be the only mech to get JJ's that make it superman in a way (Or you know.....like a jumping spider? ).....fast, quick direction changes etc etc....... at least thats what I would aim for.

It would definitely make the spider more enticing to use.....

Edited by Fooooo, 18 December 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

I was in my RVN4x, 4 jump jets equipped(since the new excuse is we're all one jet qq cheaters) , being chased by some stupid Jenners. I'm running at around 104KPH and decide to do a low pulse jump a bit to gain some distance. Instead it's like getting on a slow treadmill, I actually slow down, and take up a smooth and steady pace, floating through the air. Of course they shot me down, shot me in the back, and shot me dead.

I ???? this game.

[stjobe]

ArchMage Sparrowhawk, on 21 December 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

I was in my RVN4x, 4 jump jets equipped(since the new excuse is we're all one jet qq cheaters) , being chased by some stupid Jenners. I'm running at around 104KPH and decide to do a low pulse jump a bit to gain some distance. Instead it's like getting on a slow treadmill, I actually slow down, and take up a smooth and steady pace, floating through the air. Of course they shot me down, shot me in the back, and shot me dead.

I ???? this game.

Let's have a look at how it works in BT:

1 hex in BT was 30 meters, and a turn was 10 seconds.
That's close enough that we can for this argument postulate that 1MP = 10 kph.

Now Jump Jets in BT gave 1 hex of movement per Jump Jet mounted, and max number of Jump Jets were your Walking MP.

So in BT you could never jump farther than you could walk in the same time; effectively limiting your jump speed to your walking speed.

Now you're running along in your Raven at 100 kph, and decide to fire your four jump jets.
What happens is that you drop speed to 40 kph for your jump, because that's the max speed you Jump Jets allow.

It's very true to BT.

[Livewyr]

1 JJ in my catapult gave me 100% jump before patch.

4 JJs in my catapult now gives me about 1/2 the power I had..

They were fixed in one way, made pretty much useless in the rest of it.

[Trucker]

I have 4jj in a cataphract and personally like the change. It requires a bit more thought when using them.

As has been explained in depth here, TT rules allowed either max distance or max height but not both. MWO does this by use of the throttle. If you want max height then you have 0 throttle (or little as poss) and you will still get the same height you could before patch. If you want a long distance arc jump with little height , then have full throttle engaged.

JJ are slow but were before patch. After patch I am still able to jump to the top of the spire in river city in my cataphract.

[Chou Senwan]

There are 2 parts to this topic, in my opinion.

1. There was no reason to mount multiple jump jets, which was an error.

2. The agility jump jets grant, however, is not worth the weight a full load-out requires.

The solution, in my opinion: if you have a full load-out, make JJs better than they were before.

Were jump jetting mechs dominating before the patch? Hardly. I am 100% fine with requiring multiple JJs to get distance. However, let's have some perspective here. We recently introduced a 1.5 ton/2 slot device that makes you and your nearby allies very resistant to missile locks and harder to spot in general. The ECM is an amazing little piece of technology.

By contrast, a full load-out of JJs for a Jenner is 2.5 tons/5 slots. It doesn't benefit you much, certainly not as much as an ECM and an extra heat sink would.

So sure, require multiple Jump Jets. That's an excellent idea. But make them worth those slots and tons. At the very least allow us to have some directional control in mid-air. I'd like to be able to stand next to a building, jump up to its roof, then glide forward and land gracefully, instead of having to smash my face into the side of it and scrape onto the top. I'm willing to pay tonnage for the privilege.

Because right now, jump jets don't let you 'jump' in any useful way. They're currently just useful for pivoting faster, which only requires 1 jet. If you're trying to mock jump jet afficionados as QQers, and you want us to mount multiple jets, give us a reason to.

[Goose]

Soooooooo what do I have to do to mount more then five on a Jenner?

[PurpleNinja]

Pale Jackal, on 18 December 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

If we need to spend 4 tons to get our old jump capacity in 'mechs like the Catapult and Cataphract, then I won't be using them.

Jump jets are awesome in Tabletop because they make you faster and allow you to cover more ground.

Jump jets in MWO make you SLOWER. Jump jets in MWO allow you some mobility, a tighter turn radius, and I find damage tends to get spread around more if I use Jump Jets. Not worth 4 tons .... I'll only use them if I have spare tonnage and a lack of critical slots for heatsinks.

Jump Jets doesn't make you faster in TT.
And just now I discovered my catapult could be using just one Jump Jet the whole time.

[hammerreborn]

Goose, on 21 December 2012 - 07:04 AM, said:

Soooooooo what do I have to do to mount more then five on a Jenner?

You can't