128 replies to this topic

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Double nerf on ECM and Streaks? Yes I could handle that. Make it so ECM dont effect lockon, or only delay it, then fix streaks so they are balanced regardless of ECM or not. Using ECM to balance streaks was a terrible bit of design.

[Endrick]

Streaks shouldn't require a lock on. They were designed that you had to aim them correctly before they would fire which has 0 to do with target locks. This means leading your target just like you do with regular SRMs and actually involves skill before those missile doors even open. In TT game terms they were the perfect way to save ammo and assure that the mech being targeted always received the full abuse of the missiles instead of just getting hit with a little over half of them. Chances to actually connect on target between streaks and non streaks never changed.

Just wait till the streak 4s and 6s hit. You guys are complaining when a mech operates the 2 streak 6s worth of streak 2s as its only weapon. On some of my TT builds, a dozen streaks as 2 streak6s was the opening bid on a whole host of other pain.

Edited by Endrick, 23 December 2012 - 01:00 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

PErhaps the eaiser solution might be to increase lock-on time proportionally for every SSRM or LRM launcher a mech brings. Thus 1 launcher would give a standard & fast lockon. 2 would be slightly slower. 3 even slower. 4 starts getting very slow, 5, 6 extremely slow & long time to achieve a lock.

Add to this ECM increasing lockon time rather than completely preventing lockons and we might be getting somewhere without disabling the system completely with ECM like we do now.

[MajorBorris]

271+ meters is the the nerf...

The choice to engage at a lesser range is yours.

[Stavinsky Elyas]

Codejack, on 22 December 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

/sigh

Would you please refrain from commenting on issues that you obviously know nothing about? The SRM36 Splatapult will 2 shot an Atlas at 270m.




Is that all? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! 60 damage is a MONSTROUS hit, to anything. And with Artemis, no, you're going to get 80+ most of the time. You hit a Commando with that and they just explode; you get 3 or 4 component destruction messages and the kill message all in a row.

So, if you get lucky, the lights drop in 1 hit; 6xSSRM2 took 3-4 volleys to take out a decent Commando pilot, and I have personally witnessed a Jenner survive 6.




OK, so now you want to wildly overpower a different weapon; WTF man?! And you are even just assuming the ECM against the LRMs, as if it didn't counter streaks entirely! Here, I'll say it back to you: "Get your own ECM L2PNOOB!"

If you think streaks are bad, clan LRMs (which is what you are talking about) are going to have people in here setting themselves on fire in protest.







....because people who are good at building mechs are also often good at playing?

The most damage I ever got in a streakcat was just over 800; I've broken 1000 in a K2 Cat (both the 2xAC/20 and 2xGauss variants), the SRM36 Splatapult, the dakka-dakka Cataphract, and my Atlas-D-DC (3xSSRM2, 2xUAC/5, 2xERLLAS), and I've hit 800 on a Commando and a Cicada.

There's an old saying: "The thing all of your failed relationships have in common is you."

Obviously you are a troll, who don't read others messages, or just turn them the way you want them to 'sound' and you are adding the insult to your answers. Usually a poor way of doing things.

I never asked for anything on the LRM, as they work fine actually for those following reasons.

1) They have a weight that fit the damage they do
2) They can be escaped pretty easily if you are knowing how to hide and don't keep in the open
3) The lock can be escaped just by using the cover of the map
4) The 180m-200m minimal range make them useless under that range.

You took the LRM in the chat, I was just saying that there is a rule in Table top that let you hot load the
LRM, but it has it's own "risks" as the launcher can explode if damaged while under "hot loaded" ammo situation.
Just like the Gauss can explode when hit, except that under Hot loaded situation, the explosion risk is 100%.
So even there the Tabletop provide a 'security' to avoid abuse of the rule.

Now for the assumption I don't know what I say, I have used the various mech, and the various equipement.
The only thing I "don't" use, is the Streak Catapult with 6 streak. But I see how many damage I do with
2 Streaks already. And I have used some variants of the Mecha with Artemis and SRM.
Even with Artemis I have seen how the shoot spread at 270m, and you definitively spread more
than the SSRM and even if you can damage your target, you will have 70 damage spread over the
WHOLE target, so even if it's a 'huge' damage shoot. If it's spread over the every location, you don't get
as efficient as a "guarantied" center torso hit with every volley. To achieve that you have
to get close with your SRM boat. And the Lag shield can still work against you, something that don't happen
with the SSRM.

For the light mech, I have escaped my share of SRM boat, and I use ECM enough.
Strangely enough when I'm under that ECM umbrella I don't have any troubles
against "loner" player, the only moment I have to use "skill" is when I meet
some teams. And my Atlas change load from game to game, as I use
both an Artemis short range fiting with SRM6, and some Long range LRM
fit.

And I don't mind the SRM6 boats, as they have

1) They are not as "efficient" as SSRM as some can miss
2) They do heat up the mech when you fire
3) You have to manage your ammo.
4) Their weight can prevent you from using the biggest engine on your mech, forcing you to make CHOICES.
5) You need skill to make sure you hit your target, and if your target has half a brain he will avoid getting in your front arc, or just stay away from you if he has speed, tagging you for his team to kill you.




All those weakness are not found in the SSRM as

1) They are ultra light, so you can have a full load of them without troubles.
2) They are efficient with ammo, so you don't have to load as many shoots as you would with others ammo. And they have 100 ammo per ton
3) They don't produce heat as much as other weapon, so you don't need to balance your fit with heat sink, just upgrade your mech with double and you will keep cool for ever
4) The saved weight of them will let you get your mech equiped with the best engine, the full armor, and in the case of Catapult you can even put a full load of Jump jet, giving you even higher mobility.


No other weapon give you a list of such strength with no 'real weakness'.
Even to beat that, your opponent HAS to have an ECM. But it's not something you can put on every mech
so no matter how skilled you are, if you don't have an ECM and you run into a Streak boat user you are in for a nasty fight has he will have some superior mobility most of the time. Enough to get out of your torso mounted weapons sights. And that mean out of the biggest hitting weapons range for some mechs.

The SSRM are overpowered in the online game because lights and fast heavies can get around any others without
retaliation (kick, punch or clubbing), and that we don't have rear mounted weapons, or flipping weapons pod
(like Marauder's arms able to shoot in the rear arc).

All those 'balancing' equipement are not present, and their absence create some option to abuse mechanics
of the game. In the TT game a SSRM2 boat would clearly have some troubles. Something that don't happen
in the online game, except if you run into an ECM user without support. But once again, how many SSRM
boats used in 'team' are not having their ECM coverage ?

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 23 December 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

PErhaps the eaiser solution might be to increase lock-on time proportionally for every SSRM or LRM launcher a mech brings. Thus 1 launcher would give a standard & fast lockon. 2 would be slightly slower. 3 even slower. 4 starts getting very slow, 5, 6 extremely slow & long time to achieve a lock.

Add to this ECM increasing lockon time rather than completely preventing lockons and we might be getting somewhere without disabling the system completely with ECM like we do now.

That was proposed already, I did come in another thread with a workable solution.
That would start getting the longer timer to lock from the 3rd SSRM mounted on
a mech, so it would not cripple the use of them for lights mech that are not 'boating' them
and force some Commando to have 2 SSRM max and use something else
as a support weapon.

Edited by Stavinsky Elyas, 23 December 2012 - 04:48 AM.

[Codejack]

Stavinsky Elyas, on 23 December 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

Obviously you are a troll, who don't read others messages, or just turn them the way you want them to 'sound' and you are adding the insult to your answers. Usually a poor way of doing things.

I never asked for anything on the LRM, as they work fine actually for those following reasons.

Dude, I quoted you asking for hot-launch LRMs!

I'll tell you what, though: I'm not reading any more of your posts.

[Stavinsky Elyas]

Codejack, on 23 December 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

Dude, I quoted you asking for hot-launch LRMs!

I'll tell you what, though: I'm not reading any more of your posts.

Once again you did not read.

I said earlier in my post that IF the LRM had the hot loaded options they would not have the weakness of the short range situation. As I used the conditional. To cite myself


-----------------------

And we don't even speak about the LRM 10 that are not in the situation, as they
have a huge weakness with the 180-200 m minimal range to have their warhead
activated. That could change if the dev would add the "hot loaded" options to
a LRM rack.

-----------------------

Using conditional to emphase that the LRM WOULD NOT have the 180m minimal
range weakness IF the dev were adding the Hot loaded option.

I never asked for it to be added, never ever asked about it. So please just
take the time to READ what the others posters are saying in their thread
and please try to understand what they say, not what you THINK they
have said. That would be a nice thing to do, for all the people involved.

Edited by Stavinsky Elyas, 23 December 2012 - 06:04 AM.

[Ornus]

From your friendly SSRM2 pilot. The SSRM2s were extremely deadly pre-ECM but with the enemy team having ECM you are pretty much useless. Every match you play with a streak cat you are taking a chance that the enemy won't have ECM. The short range plus the requirement for a lock on before firing are nerfs in themselves.

[Liam Neeson]

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

If you take the rule of the table top, you have to add +1 for each interlocked missile.

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

the rule of the table top

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

table top

This is not tt nor will it ever be. Im tired of people trying to justify nerfs buffs and balances with omg tt is better.% to hit chance and stuff is in no way compareable to pilot skill. Streak boats were only ever op when poeple dont know how to counter them.

tl;dr 270m is fairly easy to attain headshots on a catapult.