84 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Ravennus, on 30 December 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

I'm a newer player who joined just after ECM came out, and made the "mistake" of picking a mech that just gets me **** on everywhere I turn. I still die a fair bit, and sometimes to my own teammates who team kill me because of the mech i picked.
And when i DO win, people take a **** all over me and call me an exploiter and worse.

You want to call me a bug abusing jerk?

Frack you arseholes. This game will die because of how toxic this community is and you're part if that.

I'm a patient old school battletech fan and stuck with this game far longer than most casual gamers ever would.
But it's not the actually ingame new player experience that turns me off... It's this community. It is seriously one of the worst I have her seen.
There are awesome and decent people here, but they are drowned out by the rest.

As much as I would love to leap to the defense of the community in general, I must admit that there are indeed persons whose idea of intelligent debate leaves much to be desired. Instead of actually educating new players, they swear at them, call them names, and then play holier-than-thou if anyone stands up to them.

Like this guy:

Ravennus, on 30 December 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

So let me get this straight... You dropped in a pug with 3 coordinated and well piloted lights who used actual teamwork and focus fire, and are complaining it was effective?

I hope they never cater to you and most of the players in this forum who *****, or it will just turn into Halo death match.

Most people are ****** shots. That's the truth. I run lights a lot, and also die a lot. I am FAR from invincible and if I screw up piloting and/or get focus fired from a large group, I am dead.
My ping runs from 50 to 300, and I die easier when my ping is bad because IT ALSO EFECTS ME. With a ****** ping, other mechs warp around and sometimes I can't even move except in a straight line due to lag. That means death.

Jesus Christ people. 3 of ANY mech using teamwork and focus fire will dominate most pugs. That's just how the game is built.
I hope they nerf the hell out of lights and ECM, just so I can still log on and destroy your Asault mech because ITS SO DAMN SLOW AND DOESN'T TURN WORTH A DAMN.

Watch the developer tutorial video for Christ sakes. Lights are Assault mechs bane.
Still, I've been 1 shot many times by skilled players who know how to aim.
I've been cored by gauss, Ac/20, and SRMs even while moving and the "lag shield". I guess they must be using aim bots huh?

What a jerk! I can totally see why you would leave the game right now. This instant.

Edited by Void Angel, 30 December 2012 - 10:01 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

I consider myself a good shot. I have routinely made a habit of blasting cockpits out from 500+ meters, smacked a perpendicularly moving target at 900 with gauss rifles, and can hold a laser beam on a singular armor section for its full duration. I am royally screwed if two or more 'competent' light mechs show up and decide I am their prey, and I cannot get any assistance from the team.

Yes, you can back yourself into a wall, but then what? Smart lights will come from two directions, forcing you to expose a rear torso if you so much as think of returning fire. Even if the lag shield was a steady lead from the target, it would be manageable, but with a constantly changing point of contact, it becomes miserable trying to hit them. As if that is not enough, it can often get compounded by missing damage even on a solid hit. I cannot even recall how many times I planted two gauss slugs into a Jenner or Raven, only to see a yellow, not orange, not blasted clean though, but light freakin' yellow armor damage report. From thirty points of focused damage. Commandos, for whatever reason, do not seem to suffer from missing damage as much.

Forget the tripping. If you could hit what you see and do the damage you should have inflicted on that hit, like I could before the last patch, you could shut down lights quickly with a steady aim. Yes, before last patch I had virtually no lead required on fast movers. No real idea why, but the newest patch borked that for me. When I had it, it was fully possible to line up a long range gauss or ppc hit to a speeding light, since you actually knew where he was and could figure out the required lead.

Seeing just how ridiculous it is to even know where the light actually is, let alone hit it, actually made me (temporarily, until the netcode gets cleaned up) RETIRE my 3L on the basis of "there is no way on earth I am that much of an ******* to use it, knowing how bugged it is." I do want to stress that last bit.

New players may not be aware of the netcode issue with fast mechs. They might just like the speed, which is completely understandable. However, if you know damned well that it is a broken mechanic, you should feel bad for exploiting it. It will not stop me from trying to pin you to the floor with Gauss or LLas, but how you sleep at night knowing you only function as effectively as you do because the game is not working as intended is beyond me. It is like lying to yourself.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 30 December 2012 - 10:34 PM.

[Ravennus]

Sio, on 30 December 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

Nobody called you anything, no clue what youre actually seeing.

Missed that, did you? Fair enough.

Void Angel, on 30 December 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

... I can pound your bug-abusing carcass without the lag shield protecting you. Now stop trolling the newbs and save your Cbills for when you have to play by the same rules as the rest of us.

Void Angel, on 30 December 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

In case you didn't read my annoyed rebuttal to the same jerk...

I admit that I might have flown a little too much off the handle with my initial post to the OP, but I'm just sick and tired of getting crapped on all over the forums and ingame just because I use a Raven 3L.

You are new to this game? Be thankful you didn't do what I did and save up for a Raven 3L because you wanted to go fast and all the scouting/electronic warfare stuff sounded cool.
I spent all my cbills, and grinded many many more after the cadet bonus just to properly outfit my 3L, and also get the varients to unlock the Elite skills.... and all I get is abuse.

When I die early, I totally suck and a ****** newb who needs to learn to play.
When I do well and help my team win, I'm a dirty exploiter and cheater who is human garbage.

My own teammate once turned his guns on me and blew me up in the beginning of the match because I was using a Raven 3L and proceeded to call me every kind of name imaginable.

So I login to the forums to find out why the hell this is going on, and I just read thread after thread saying that me and other players like me are the reason the game is circling the drain.
I keep hearing how using my mech is cheating and exploiting, and is Godmode (hence my reaction to the OP), and yet this just ISN'T my experience ingame!

I win some, I lose some, and I can die pretty quickly if I'm not careful.


So I'm sorry if I defend myself and get angry.
If you really want to know, IRL I am very easy going... except when I witness abuse or extreme disrespect, which is what I have experienced in MWO both ingame and on the forums.
That's when I start firing both barrels.

Was it appropriate to single out the OP and attack him the way I did? Probably not, and I apologize.
But the attitude around here has been making me sick, and is obviously rubbing off on me.

Clearly I need a break...

[DerHuhnTeufel]

Light mechs are only an issue when combined with ECM. SSRMs make very short work of most lights, but when they come with their own missile defenses (or worse yet, can cancel out an Atlas' ECM somehow), they are extremely frustrating. I blew my cadet bonus on a commando with ECM (because I hate LRM boats, I didn't know about lagshield until after my cadet days), and I can tell you that I do extremely well in most matches, but if my ECM is countered, any other lock on missile boat makes very short work of me.

The issue I see with this thread is that lots of people want light mechs to be fodder for everything. Many medium (and some heavies) can move, rotate, and maneuver, well enough to keep in range and kill light mechs, so if there isn't some advantage to piloting one you may as well remove them from the game. They already pop in a good LRM volley or lucky critical, and losing a leg means you're toast, so while the lagshield is definitely an issue, you shouldn't act like they're impossible to kill, either.

[Fallout23]

What an odd response to get. I ran lights before ECM even came out mastering all 3 lines before ecm's release. In all that time I never had the kind of hate your talking about thrown my way in a match. There may have been a snide remark like "enjoy your lag shield while it lasts" thrown here and there, but they were rare. Never had anyone called me any names though. I started in lights because they were cheap and they fit my play style of moving in and out quickly. I started in a jenner, and by the time i started leveling commandos (my second light line), it wasnt unusual to be 1st or 2nd in damage in match. not once did i get called any names when i did well. Assaults used to be boring as hell for me to play before I started to understand how to play them.

I will say ECM has made piloting a raven a hell of a lot easier. I still did very well in my lights before it came out, but now a pack of ECM ravens is a damn nightmare to deal with. They usually can move with impunity if dropping into a pug match if there working together jamming and countering other ECM users. I usually run streaks on my atlas specifically for light swarms. If they come in with more than one ECM its usually a nightmare with a pug. If I'm in a group, we usually have enough ECM to counter and either lights die, or they scamper off.

[Lanessar]

Not sure why the one poster gets his boobies in a tangle. There is an abusable mechanic. Even with teamwork, this is visible. I've been a spectator on a match where a single raven killed three heavy mechs holed up defensively with minimal damage, where the heavies were nearly full. And he hit these guys head-on, very few "skillful maneuvers".

Granted that the aiming and piloting skill of these heavies was atrocious. One fired LRMs at point blank range. However, one laser boat in a founder's Cata was quite skilled, and still did minimal damage.

It's not team work winning the game. It's three mechs abusing a buggy mechanic. And I say this as a Jenner pilot, I stopped playing shortly after KD was taken out to make sure I didn't pick up bad habits.

Lights currently ARE godmode for mediocre pilots. Even rusty and out of practice, I took my Jenner out for a spin. Without ECM, LRMs were the only thing I had to worry about. Otherwise, in my PUG matches, I dominated three out of the five matches I played... Solo - no teamwork. Where LRMs were not a factor, I regularly scored 3 kills and as many assists without even trying. This is not anecdotal evidence. I see Ravens come in top of match regularly when PUGing, one with 7 kills and 1400 damage. No teamwork required. There was no four-man on the other team. It was simply easymode.

Having played in CB before the lagshield was a major problem, I remember how hard it was to master light piloting. The circle jerk of doom got you killed in a hurry. You would ALWAYS do a figure 8 behind a mech, you would NEVER attack an assault or heavy or even a medium swayback from the front. If you did, you were dead in a fraction of a second, simple as that.

I've seen light pilots (frequently) do things which would get them killed in one burst, and survive it very quickly. It's not "L2P" or whining about skilled opponents. It's the guys doing stuff that should get them killed in seconds, but getting away with it. Against even highly-skilled opponents.

Now, having done the "learn to pilot a light" grind in CB (takes about 20-30 matches, took me 50 or so because I'm not as twitchy as some), I know how difficult and how skilled light piloting actually is. Right now, it's fracking broken. No questions. Add ECM, and you've gotten rid of the one way lights could be killed with impunity, lag shield or no.

There are some plain skilled light pilots. I see them piloting Jenners. In a tag-team style, they are devastating. They rip up a PUG like there is no tomorrow, and I simply take my hat off to them, power down and let them have my assault as kill. But they know how to tap JJ to change directions suddenly to miss a burst of fire, they figure-8 behind the slower assaults so that they can't be targeted, and they use terrain so skillfully, my panties get wet just spectating it.

[Pariah Devalis]

Quoting the part I wish to address:

DerHuhnTeufel, on 31 December 2012 - 04:35 AM, said:

The issue I see with this thread is that lots of people want light mechs to be fodder for everything.

This is not accurate, IMO. Fast lights will always have a place. They make excellent spotters, they are fantastic for countering other lights on an even playing field, and they are great for outmaneuvering enemy lines for offensive or defensive purposes. The speeds in which they move at provide very real protection, even without a netcode issue. LRMs are little more than a nuisance to a mech moving over 120 KPH, as I started out in small fast machines before ECM existed in its current state. I have plenty of experience fooling LRMs with just how you move, let alone using cover or equipping an AMS. The speed makes it difficult to hit them with weapons that have travel time, such as gauss, ppc, or ac. The speed also makes it difficult to keep a focused beam on them for a full duration.

From a durability standpoint, they are only 'fodder' if you charge or move directly away from an enemy mech. From a tactical standpoint, they are perhaps even MORE flexible then most other mechs (with the possible exception being a fast DRG or CN9). The maneuverability of lights also gives them a tremendous advantage harassing assault mechs, which is just plain good balance since they can stay behind any assault mech if they want to. It creates a rock-paper-scissors effect that way which is desirable.

Fixing the netcode so they take the damage they are supposed to take, and get hit when you actually aim at them will not reduce them to fodder. Hell, I do not even have an issue with ECM screwing with streaks! The issue is, streaks are currently the only reliable way to actually hit the things, now, regardless of how skilled a shot you might be. This is an issue with the hit detection in the game, not the ECM, however. As it stands, due to ECM induced invulnerability to streaks, coupled with the other issues, you have lights acting like brawlers when that should never, ever be the case. Hit and run moves, quick harassment, scouting/spotting, and anti-light duty should be there they fall neatly into. This is not the case as it currently stands.

I am curious to see the changes the January netcode tweak will have.

[DirkLarien]

Pan Damonium, on 28 December 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

The really weird thing is, the light mech can sometimes be standing COMPLETELY STILL and be shot dead on with lasers/ballistics and take little or no damage. The lagshield concept I can at least understand why it happens, but nothing about a stationary light mech being invincible makes any sense.

I agree lag shield is bad. Ok.
But what you said here makes perfect sense.
Why?
And i am helping you here a lot! Be glad.
Its really simple:
In a Raven you will get mostly hit into three parts - Center, left and right torso front.
So it makes perfect sense to make it as sturdy as possible.
Head? Naah noone ever hit that part.... so almost no armor. Arms? naah noone hits it, its too small... so again next to no armor there.
Rear ? oh thats tough one. Weaknes of my ravens - really low armor so if i decide to bail i am most likely dead since i will turn my back on you.
So next time you will hit a raven into center torso with alpha and dont see much diference. Try to shoot the leg, arm, back instead.
Sorry for bad english. Its not my native.

[Xtrekker]

A light mech should not be able to tie up half the team while they all try to find your lag ghost. Considering how often this happens and how many ECM raven packs you see running around, this is obviously something people have figured out and are using to their advantage. There is no defense of this topic, it simply is, as with every other broken mechanic that pops up with each patch. That said...

Ravennus, I'm not sure what your attitude in game is, but if this thread is any indication, I would not doubt that some of the hate you speak of is self-inflicted.

You may be the victim of circumstance as well. If you bought into the 3L not knowing about its issues, and people see you drop in it with a high ping, the presumption is you know full well what you are doing. As there is a good portion of this community that is self-policing (we've been doing it for over a decade), you are possibly seeing the over-zealous preemptive reaction. People want this game to succeed and watching people exploit a known issue for a short-term gain (community be damned) is pretty infuriating. In your case, a 300 ping means better success in the 3L because the netcode is broken, and you should know better.

I'll also note that there are plenty of teams out there happily exploiting this issue as well, almost fine-tuning it to an art with organized exploiter packs. Shame on them.

[Void Angel]

Ravennus, on 30 December 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

I admit that I might have flown a little too much off the handle with my initial post to the OP, but I'm just sick and tired of getting crapped on all over the forums and ingame just because I use a Raven 3L ...
My own teammate once turned his guns on me and blew me up in the beginning of the match because I was using a Raven 3L and proceeded to call me every kind of name imaginable.

So I login to the forums to find out why the hell this is going on, and I just read thread after thread saying that me and other players like me are the reason the game is circling the drain.
I keep hearing how using my mech is cheating and exploiting, and is Godmode (hence my reaction to the OP), and yet this just ISN'T my experience ingame!

I win some, I lose some, and I can die pretty quickly if I'm not careful.


So I'm sorry if I defend myself and get angry.
If you really want to know, IRL I am very easy going... except when I witness abuse or extreme disrespect, which is what I have experienced in MWO both ingame and on the forums.
That's when I start firing both barrels.

Was it appropriate to single out the OP and attack him the way I did? Probably not, and I apologize.
But the attitude around here has been making me sick, and is obviously rubbing off on me.

Clearly I need a break...

First, it's asinine to team-kill your own guy just because you hate lights. I really hope his teammates submitted tickets with screenshots, and so should you.

However, before you get all mad about "extreme disrespect," you might want to do a little more reading. The effect of lag shields is that your hit boxes, where the server thinks you are, are not even close to your mech's model location - where the rest of us see you are. Instead, those hit boxes are ahead of where we see you - or more accurately, your visible 'mech model follows along behind where you actually are, like a sensor ghost. Even worse, the distance that your model seems to lag is actually proportional to our combined latencies, so it varies not only from opponent to opponent, but often even over time depending on the stability of our connections.

What this means in practice is that as long as you are moving at high speeds with a significant angle relative to my line of fire, I can't really hit you. I have to try and guess where you really are: projectile weapons are a shot in the dark (you should pardon the pun,) and the only way I have to see if lasers hit you is by taking not of whether my reticule (which is hovering over empty air) turns red after I begin firing - and even that only tells me I hit someplace on your model. The only way to kind of maybe-sorta get a good shot in on a light is to get directly behind or ahead of it so that his "ghost boxes" are in the same line with the direction his model is moving. And even that's ineffective if there's a large elevation difference between you, or if he's circling. Then you have to try to get outside the circle and fire at the point of the circle where he 's going directly toward or away from you. The hit box lag doesn't affect the light 'mech anywhere NEAR how it affects slower 'mechs because the lag is related to movement speed of the target. If you're moving twice my speed and your hit box is one "model-width" ahead of you, I'd expect my hit boxes would be half my model removed -which means you can still hit me accurately somewhere by aiming at my model. Plus, since you can literally run circles around most other 'mechs, you get a lot more of those zero-deflection shots I explained above. Also, all of this assumes that the hit box lag compares directly with target speeds - it could conceivably have an increasing effect based on the target's speed, depending on the nature of the bug, but I don't know.

AND THEN there's collisions! Or rather, the lack thereof. Collisions were removed a few patches ago pending fixes to the system. In the mean time, a light 'mech can actually run THROUGH most other 'mechs - often causing rubber-banding in the process, and making it even harder for large 'mechs to fight them. You can literally run through the front of an enemy, turn on a dime to cross his newly exposed rear and alpha strike, then go back to the Newbie Circle, rinse, repeat, ad nauseum.

To add insult to injury, the Raven has a very cluttered array of narrow hit boxes. The arms are just barely above the top of the legs, the center and side torsos are very narrow and near the arms, legs, and each other... All this means that it's hard to get all my laser damage on one location to begin with, even before the lag shield. And then there's the times where you hit a Raven with a Gauss Rifle, and the armor on a side torso location only goes yellow. Understand: the maximum total armor, front and back, for that torso slot is 32 points. I should be doing half that, with a weapon that isn't supposed to spread damage, and it still only goes yellow? Others have reported similar results against the Raven, and theories range from having a "caliber" for the round (so it can partially miss, hit multiple locations and split damage, etc,) to actual gaps between the 'mech'***** boxes. Regardless of why, I've seen a 35-ton Raven march slowly in a circle and eat multiple alpha strikes from my Hunchback's 8 medium lasers - and just. not. die.

Many, many pilots are deliberately abusing these mechanics - and their number seems to grow day by day. Sorry if you feel ill used and assigned guilt by association - but however you came by it, you are piloting what is arguably the most broken 'mech in the game. Experienced Raven pilots routinely go toe to toe with Atlases without fear - not by outmaneuvering them and staying out of the Atlas' line of fire, but by crossing that line of fire over, and over, and over during the Newbie Hammer Circle Strafe. They know the Atlas cannot hit them - because by the time their model appears in the Atlas' field of view, their ghost boxes are halfway across his field of fire. If you think getting gunned down by your own team is frustrating (and it is!) try spending a subjective eternity getting cored out from the rear arc in your Atlas when a 35-ton 'mech bled you out with contemptuous ease - because bugs in the game don't allow you to fight back!

Edited by Void Angel, 31 December 2012 - 01:40 PM.

[Ravennus]

Fallout23, on 31 December 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

What an odd response to get. I ran lights before ECM even came out mastering all 3 lines before ecm's release. In all that time I never had the kind of hate your talking about thrown my way in a match. There may have been a snide remark like "enjoy your lag shield while it lasts" thrown here and there, but they were rare. Never had anyone called me any names though. I started in lights because they were cheap and they fit my play style of moving in and out quickly. I started in a jenner, and by the time i started leveling commandos (my second light line), it wasnt unusual to be 1st or 2nd in damage in match. not once did i get called any names when i did well. Assaults used to be boring as hell for me to play before I started to understand how to play them.

I think that is part of the problem, and why we have had different experiences. You played lights before ECM came out, and that seems to have been the straw that broke the camels back for most people.

Void Angel, on 31 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

What this means in practice is that as long as you are moving at high speeds with a significant angle relative to my line of fire, I can't really hit you. I have to try and guess where you really are: projectile weapons are a shot in the dark (you should pardon the pun,) and the only way I have to see if lasers hit you is by taking not of whether my reticule (which is hovering over empty air) turns red after I begin firing - and even that only tells me I hit someplace on your model. The only way to kind of maybe-sorta get a good shot in on a light is to get directly behind or ahead of it so that his "ghost boxes" are in the same line with the direction his model is moving. And even that's ineffective if there's a large elevation difference between you, or if he's circling. Then you have to try to get outside the circle and fire at the point of the circle where he 's going directly toward or away from you. The hit box lag doesn't affect the light 'mech anywhere NEAR how it affects slower 'mechs because the lag is related to movement speed of the target. If you're moving twice my speed and your hit box is one "model-width" ahead of you, I'd expect my hit boxes would be half my model removed -which means you can still hit me accurately somewhere by aiming at my model. Plus, since you can literally run circles around most other 'mechs, you get a lot more of those zero-deflection shots I explained above. Also, all of this assumes that the hit box lag compares directly with target speeds - it could conceivably have an increasing effect based on the target's speed, depending on the nature of the bug, but I don't know.

First, thanks for your detailed and informative response.
I again apologize for my ranting yesterday. I was literally teamkilled that morning then came on the forums and the first thing I see is a bunch of these Raven hate threads.

I don't usually react like that, but everything was just building... I felt like I was finally getting good with my first bought mech, and then I started getting called names in chat. Then I get teamkilled and come online and read all this hate.


Anyway, I've been reading more about the netcode issues.... and I think the heart of it is this...

If the code is seriously as broken as you and others describe, then the game itself is broken and PGI should be ashamed for actually taking money from people at this point, beta or no.

[Void Angel]

DirkLarien, on 31 December 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

I agree lag shield is bad. Ok.
But what you said here makes perfect sense.
Why?
And i am helping you here a lot! Be glad.
Its really simple:
In a Raven you will get mostly hit into three parts - Center, left and right torso front.
So it makes perfect sense to make it as sturdy as possible.
Head? Naah noone ever hit that part.... so almost no armor. Arms? naah noone hits it, its too small... so again next to no armor there.
Rear ? oh thats tough one. Weaknes of my ravens - really low armor so if i decide to bail i am most likely dead since i will turn my back on you.
So next time you will hit a raven into center torso with alpha and dont see much diference. Try to shoot the leg, arm, back instead.
Sorry for bad english. Its not my native.

Your English is understandable, and that's what counts. =)

However, you seem to be missing the point. The most you can have on your Left Torso, for example, is 32 points total. Even if you have very weak armor on the back, you should not be only going to yellow when I hit you with a Gauss Rifle and two Large Lasers. But this occasionally happens - some of the damage seems to just miss. Another issue is that the netcode seems to generate lag shield errors when moving 'mechs shut down, or when sloping terrain is involved. =)

[Void Angel]

Ravennus, on 31 December 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

I think that is part of the problem, and why we have had different experiences. You played lights before ECM came out, and that seems to have been the straw that broke the camels back for most people.




First, thanks for your detailed and informative response.
I again apologize for my ranting yesterday. I was literally teamkilled that morning then came on the forums and the first thing I see is a bunch of these Raven hate threads.

I don't usually react like that, but everything was just building... I felt like I was finally getting good with my first bought mech, and then I started getting called names in chat. Then I get teamkilled and come online and read all this hate.


Anyway, I've been reading more about the netcode issues.... and I think the heart of it is this...

If the code is seriously as broken as you and others describe, then the game itself is broken and PGI should be ashamed for actually taking money from people at this point, beta or no.

Nah, PGI is doing well with this, despite the problems. We all know it's a beta, and the MC we bought (or didn't buy) will still be there after it's all fixed. It's not like we're paying to play the game - this isn't Galaxies, after all. Also, if the rumors I hear are correct, part of the issue is PGI's keeping hit detection server-side. If that's so, they're accepting some short term-problems while they work to prevent a host of exploits in the long term. Keeping hit detection on their servers makes aimbotting much harder.

As for the rage? Meh, forget about it. It's not like I've never blown up out of sheer frustration before - I understand entirely how frustrating teamkilling can be.

[Snib]

Ravennus, on 31 December 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

If the code is seriously as broken as you and others describe, then the game itself is broken and PGI should be ashamed for actually taking money from people at this point, beta or no.

There's no "if". Get a heavy or assault (buy one or run a trial) and try to shoot a speeding mech. You'll see the issue.

Void Angel, on 31 December 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

Also, if the rumors I hear are correct, part of the issue is PGI's keeping hit detection server-side.

That's no rumor, either. The game is server authoritative, i.e. you only click the buttons, the server does the rest and it matters not one bit what you see on your client.

Edited by Snib, 31 December 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

To be fair to PGI, and completely circumventing the beta is beta argument which is true to a certain extent, one must also realize they have a very small development team at the moment. Very small. What, 50 people? Most modern games have closer to 100 people working on them. They are also being funded primarily through those of us who give them money in game. If we do not pay, they cannot afford to hire the staff they need to improve on the game. It creates two paths: One where nobody pays because it is broken and the game never gets fixed and dies completely, or one where people pay, fund PGI's efforts to make the game, and it gets worked out down the road with the game thriving.

The simplest fix, making it client side hit detection, would make the game extremely easy to cheat on and we will become inundated with aimbots before you know it. Furthermore, the severity of the netcode issue fluxuates a bit between patches. For example, prior to the December patch I could hit what I aimed at, but afterwards I need to deal with the lagshooting issues, in addition to the pre-existing missing damage bug. The good news is that they said they will be rolling out a patch in January that makes an effort to specifically target some of the netcode related issues. Keep in mind this may not completely fix it, but hopefully it will improve matters.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 31 December 2012 - 01:17 PM.

[Ravennus]

I sincerely hope they work out these issues.

I actually really enjoy the gameplay of MWO as it stands right now. Maybe I'm lucky, or it's because I live in Canada (even though it's the middle of nowhere with a crappy internet connection) but I generally hit what I aim at.

But if it's this bad for other people, then it needs to be fixed.
I also hope they bring back collisions, as they would defitely increase the skill requirement for high speed lights.


Still, I've been craving some Mech combat for a while, and the japanese stuff isn't nearly the same. I also tried Hawken and no thanks.


Whelp, until this stuff gets sorted then I guess I'll start working on my new Hunchback 4SP. I heard it's a good starter mech and should give me a lot less flak if I actually kill something.

Eventually I want to go back to my Raven though, as I really like the speed and maneuverability.

[Pariah Devalis]

The 4SP is a solid mech for anyone, new and old. I actually used to pooh pooh hunchbacks until I mastered my 4SP. The stock loadout is vicious, but can really use the DHS upgrade. Slap on endo steel and a beefier standard engine (with Artemis being suggested if you do not mind being a hair slower) and you can blow up people's back armor incredibly quickly. Think of this as a good opportunity to mess around with other weight classes and combat styles.


Edit: If you like maneuverability, look into the Dragon. Those things almost require XL engines, but move like a mech 20 tons lighter then they are.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 31 December 2012 - 01:36 PM.

[Void Angel]

I'm currently having tons of fun with my Hunchback 4P laser brawler. I mount 8 medium lasers and a TAG (because I love you, fire support 'mechs. Because I love you,) which is a ton of fun. The engine is a max-rating standard engine, and along with my full pilot loadout, I can do amazing damage to slow targets with a chassis that gets up to over 90 Kph.

That's probably fast enough to benefit a bit from lag shields, though I still get smashed pretty fast if I get caught in the open (so it's not like the Commando Two-step. But where this loadout excels is when lag shields matter less. I do my best to snipe at medium ranges and add to the overall weight of fire, but when the assault mechs get stuck in, that's where I start having fun. Especially in fully urban combat, like River City, I can use my mobility and cover/concealment to get behind their heavy elements and deal massive damage to rear armor and vulnerable LRM 'mechs, then escape - unless a disproportionate number of them chase me down. Either way, my impact on that phase of combat is far greater than my tonnage would suggest - and if you're heavily damaged when the mop-up starts, well...

May the Lord have mercy on your soul - for the rest belongs to me.

[Hresvelgr]

Difference betweem raven running 90 kph and Hunchback running the same speed is not only lag shield, but also mech size. Hunchie will be much easier to hit, even if lag shielded.

BTW, did you notice that when you're a spectator, it may look like your teammates are really lame and trying to kill terrain instead of enemy mechs? After some experiments on TS, I found out that this may also be similiar lag/ping issue. So, with this in mind, I would like to say hello to my recent pug-teammates and repeat once again: shut up and plug your stupid comments like "aim before shooting" as deep in your intestines as possible, especially if you made a suicide run in the beginning of drop and don't do anything useful. And yes, I was hitting that pesky jenner running around even though to do it I had to lead him with lasers (lasers, man, lasers! is light so slow in Battletech universe?), shooting almost a half of jenner's torso ahead of target. That is totally stupid. At least when lights had ability to stumble on something instead of warping through other mechs, they had to be good pilots, not just annoying bug-exploiters.

[Av3nGer]

Why is it that you people have to open the same topics over and over again? Let me make this short: If netcode is fixed and collisions reapplied, everything will be okay for you... lights are just fine as they are. Though I have to admit, I grow impatient with PGI. It's been quite some time now, since they removed collisions...