84 replies to this topic

[Sio]

I play this game since a week and Im prob just an average european player. But even this limited experience shows me that lights are extremely overpowered atm.
Just had another experience of 3 ravens at opposing team. You probably think that the big problem in such a match is ecm. lol. Forget ecm, they dont need it (and it doesnt matter that they were ravens btw.). They just drove after one mech after another and killed it. Doesnt matter if the mech was standing inside a bunch of friendlies (which partly tried to kill the ravens too), they simply ignored everything and killed. One after another. And nearly got no damage at all.

I read "lag shooting" and tried it, but it doesnt work. Using balistic weapons is just a waste, hitting is either pure luck or because the light driver made some big mistake. Using lasers is useless too. Even if you manage to get the beam on them for more than some micro seconds the damage is laughable. I found the thread about "lagshields" and I agree. Watching my team light mech driving through a wall of lasers/explosives without getting serious damage is prove for that.
The only real counter for a light is another light using streaks with ecm protection.

My game experience atm is like: Red appearing on screen... oh its just a catapult/dragon/atlas whatever, phew. Lets get into a nice fight. RAWR!
BUT if its a light... I try to ignore it and hope someone other can deal with it. Something is seriously wrong if I have more "fear" before some generic 100++ kph running light than some mighty Atlas! And Im not running lrm boats most of the time.

Anyway this is a rant. And now Im feeling better.

Edit:
Just saw Im in wrong forum. A mod please move this to general.

Edited by Sio, 28 December 2012 - 09:17 PM.

[Pan Damonium]

The really weird thing is, the light mech can sometimes be standing COMPLETELY STILL and be shot dead on with lasers/ballistics and take little or no damage. The lagshield concept I can at least understand why it happens, but nothing about a stationary light mech being invincible makes any sense.

I would take a screenshot(s) of this, but I can't seem to find the key to capture the screen image...can anyone tell me?

[Selfish]

Pan Damonium, on 28 December 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

The really weird thing is, the light mech can sometimes be standing COMPLETELY STILL and be shot dead on with lasers/ballistics and take little or no damage. The lagshield concept I can at least understand why it happens, but nothing about a stationary light mech being invincible makes any sense.

I would take a screenshot(s) of this, but I can't seem to find the key to capture the screen image...can anyone tell me?

You're not crazy. This is why they removed Knockdowns. It also occurs if the mech stops on an incline, is moving fast, collides with another mech, or shuts down while moving. So pretty much anytime you look at a light mech

[Lugh]

The collision mechanics will be fixed... then light mechs will be like tumbleweeds. Rarely seen and easily lit on fire.

[Mordynak]

And it seems not running lights enables complain mode.

Edited by Mordynak, 29 December 2012 - 09:02 AM.

[Lugh]

Hot Tip:

Killing lights is not the same as killing other mechs. They need to be fought with raking laser fire to be sure you get some damage on them )ps they tend to leg easily if they are very fast as well(

Once legged they die in an alpha.

[Reggimus]

Pan Damonium, on 28 December 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

I would take a screenshot(s) of this, but I can't seem to find the key to capture the screen image...can anyone tell me?

Just use the 'Print Screen' button on your Keyboard (generally after the Fx Keys, near the numb-pad), then open MSpaint and paste.

[J0anna]

Your complaints aren't wrong. Lights are useful for scouting, but currently are extremely over powered (they don't just scout, they are a very potent attack force). I dropped with 4 ECM ravens the other day (and no I was in a cataphract). They proceeded to tear apart the other team while I and 3 others watched. It wasn't like the other team was setup for long range, the lights just circled and killed. I almost helped the other team, it was so one sided. I'm ok with assaults and heavies having a hard time with them, but even mediums had no hope against them.

[Void Angel]

Mordynak, on 29 December 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

And it seems not running lights enables complain mode.

The complaints are justified; troll elsewhere.

All the problems with the Lights are related to the netcode - which the devs hope to have fixed sometime in January. Justice is coming, scrubs; justice is coming...

[Mordin Ashe]

Even if collisions will be fixed, lagshield will be fixed, ECM has no downsides and streaks won't target the central torso, it doesn't mean that now and in the following weeks lights will be extremly powerfull and in many situations impossible to counter.

So aye, lights are easy mode.

[Kargush]

Reggimus, on 29 December 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

Just use the 'Print Screen' button on your Keyboard (generally after the Fx Keys, near the numb-pad), then open MSpaint and paste.

Or do as I do and add the game to steam as a non-steam product. Then you can take screenshots with F12, and have them all easily accessible.

[Gaeb]

Advantages lights get:

• Netcode (currently being reworked, full post on this issue in command chair) - They're just really, really hard to hit. I've legged ravens with erppcs from 500m but that's the exception not the rule.
  
• No knockdowns (not sure if they're coming back but GOD I hope so) - Lights have practically zero penalty for crappy piloting - run into a 100T atlas, run THROUGH them, turn around on a dime and shoot them.
  
• Double Armor (benefits lights most of all since they're hardest to hit)
  
• Best relative advantage from mech upgrades
  
  • DHS benefit lights more due to less room for big, heat hungry weapons - so ML / Streaks rule the day, and they get tons of 2.0 DHS with their engine and are good to go with little need for additional 3critslot heatsinks.
    
  • Lights can't fill a ton of slots, so they load up on endo - and sometimes Ferro - and still have their *entire* weapon loadout filled with a good heat ratio
    
  • Lights are hard to hit, making an XL engine a worthwhile investment (see: netcode, double armor)
• Inertia - Lights, for whatever reason, can stop on a dime. I run a 140KPH commando and a 62KPH atlas and everything in between - it blows my mind that the commando is so much better at stopping/starting, given if you're *really* going at high speed then cornering/balance should be a real issue. When I type 'x', my commando goes from full speed to stop in about 3 steps. That's just insane maneuverability. To be clear, I have a *REALLY* hard time imagining a humanoid mech stopping that quickly from full speed without the equivalent of, say, six inch long cleats. There's just no way in hell. Traction... not happening.
  
• ECM compounds the above advantages. I don't think ECM on its own is a huge problem, the above advantages are farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr more of a problem.

Edited by Gaeb, 30 December 2012 - 09:58 AM.

[Void Angel]

I agree about ECM. The biggest problem with ECM was solved by the extension of TAG to practical ranges (before, you could only TAG people from ranges so close as to be at the mercy of incoming fire and interdiction by ECM lights.)

One additional advantage with lights, though, is their sometimes small and narrow hit boxes (I'm looking at you, Raven abusers) which make targeting specific locations, or even getting your laser damage all on one or two locations, often quite difficult.

As far as inertia and turning, well, lights are gonna NEED that once the netcode is fixed and skill is once again required - in other words, once they have to play by the same rules as everyone else. Similarly, light mechs make up for their advantages in internal slots by being fragile - if we were allowed to hit them by shooting at them, instead of guessing where their ghost is.

[Ravennus]

So let me get this straight... You dropped in a pug with 3 coordinated and well piloted lights who used actual teamwork and focus fire, and are complaining it was effective?

I hope they never cater to you and most of the players in this forum who *****, or it will just turn into Halo death match.

Most people are ****** shots. That's the truth. I run lights a lot, and also die a lot. I am FAR from invincible and if I screw up piloting and/or get focus fired from a large group, I am dead.
My ping runs from 50 to 300, and I die easier when my ping is bad because IT ALSO EFECTS ME. With a ****** ping, other mechs warp around and sometimes I can't even move except in a straight line due to lag. That means death.

Jesus Christ people. 3 of ANY mech using teamwork and focus fire will dominate most pugs. That's just how the game is built.
I hope they nerf the hell out of lights and ECM, just so I can still log on and destroy your Asault mech because ITS SO DAMN SLOW AND DOESN'T TURN WORTH A DAMN.

Watch the developer tutorial video for Christ sakes. Lights are Assault mechs bane.
Still, I've been 1 shot many times by skilled players who know how to aim.
I've been cored by gauss, Ac/20, and SRMs even while moving and the "lag shield". I guess they must be using aim bots huh?

Edited by Ravennus, 30 December 2012 - 02:35 PM.

[Void Angel]

No, Ravennus, he dropped into a PuG with three people who smashed the enemy using no tactics other than running in circles. They did this because of known issues with the netcode, not any sort of skill and coordination. They may have had both; that's not the core of their success.

The effect of lag shields, a known issue with the game, are not equally felt. The faster you go, the more you have to be led; An Atlas going 52 Kph is simply not going to benefit as much as you are in a Jenner or whatever at 112 Kph or higher. We are better aware of how the game works than you seem to be; running through Assault mechs without fear (which often causes rubberbanding) and passing so close to their field of view that they can only get a tick or two of laser damage on some combination of your torso slots does not qualify as piloting skill. I've had light mechs cross my field of fire over and over again, taking little to no damage - not because I'm a "crappy shot," but because where they really were was halfway across my field of vision before their model even appeared on-screen.

I've beat the crap out of many light mechs with my Gauss rifle, my large lasers, and yes, even my SRMS. Allow me to correct your piloting errors: when the tangent of your turning arc intersects with my line of fire, I can pound your bug-abusing carcass without the lag shield protecting you. Now stop trolling the newbs and save your Cbills for when you have to play by the same rules as the rest of us.

Winter is coming, lighties; justice has enough ammo for all of you.

Edited by Void Angel, 30 December 2012 - 06:13 PM.

[Sio]

I wrote that lights are atm totally overpowered and gave an actual example. Dont give me the excuse about coordinated vs non-coordinated gameplay, thats not the point. Its about a mechtype which needs to get killed either by "screw up piloting and/or get focus fired from a large group". Now any mech will go down if the pilot screws up, but do you really think its normal to kill a LIGHT, it needs half of the team focus firing that one? Thats my definition of killing an Assault mech btw.
And you ignored the part where I wrote "they simply ignored everything and killed". So I guess its totally normal for you that 3 lights are running through an enemy team, circling a mech for a minute until its dead and repeat it, the whole time ignoring the damage thrown at them.
To sum this up: A mech which got focused fire by half of the group (in my example only 3 mechs most of the time), but doesnt care about and continues killing its prey. Sounds like a typical, normal light mech. (sarcasm)

Maybe you should read a bit through this forum or watch a light after you got killed in actual gameplay. You will see what I mean.

"I guess they must be using aim bots huh?"
Actually my guess would be luck, better pings or just bad gameplay on your part.

Edit:
That was a reply to Ravennus post. Im a slow typer.

Edited by Sio, 30 December 2012 - 06:31 PM.

[Void Angel]

I know.

In case you didn't read my annoyed rebuttal to the same jerk, the best way to defeat lag shields is to get outside their Newbie Circle maneuver and aim for the part of the circle where they're facing directly away from or toward you. That way, the hitbox ghost you're actually trying to hit is in the same line of fire as their model, more or less. Still not perfect, but it gives the only real chance to hit with heavy weapons and do real damage.

Of course, this doesn't work if you're the guy being Newbie Circled.

Also, from what I understand of the netcode issue (which is to say, a small part of it,) the difficulty is supposed to involve handling all the hit detection server-side - which is a security measure you use to make aimbotting harder. =)

[Tbolt82]

Get an Atlas DDC, fit 3 SSRM2's on it and ECM.

When you see a light, switch ECM to counter mode and pump them full of streaks. When they run away (they will) hit them with everything else and keep streaking them, they won't live long.

[Ravennus]

[Redacted]

I'm a patient old school battletech fan and stuck with this game far longer than most casual gamers ever would.
But it's not the actually ingame new player experience that turns me off... It's this community. It is seriously one of the worst I have her seen.
There are awesome and decent people here, but they are drowned out by the rest.

Edited by Niko Snow, 31 December 2012 - 11:44 AM.
Code of Conduct

[Sio]

Quote

I'm a newer player who joined just after ECM came out, and made the "mistake" of picking a mech that just gets me **** on everywhere I turn. I still die a fair bit, and sometimes to my own teammates who team kill me because of the mech i picked.
And when i DO win, people take a **** all over me and call me an exploiter and worse.

You want to call me a bug abusing jerk?

Frack you arseholes. This game will die because of how toxic this community is and you're part if that.

I'm a patient old school battletech fan and stuck with this game far longer than most casual gamers ever would.
But it's not the actually ingame new player experience that turns me off... It's this community. It is seriously one of the worst I have her seen.
There are awesome and decent people here, but they are drowned out by the rest.

I started playing 10 days ago. I hope that in RL you manners are better than on the net, because they just suck here.
Nobody called you anything, no clue what youre actually seeing.
Anyway, reported.

Edited by Sio, 30 December 2012 - 09:23 PM.