15 replies to this topic

[Kasset]

Dear MWO community,
Can anyone tell me how the Beagle Probes work? Do they counter ECM? And how practical are they?

I’m running a 2A-Cicada and the more money I waste on upgrades and tweeks the more I notice that ECM is becoming a standard in the mech world, I’m trying to avoid buying the ECM friendly variant of the Cicada but its starting to leave me with no choice

I figured maybe I can work around this by adding some brain power to it but considering that I don’t want to waste the moniezz on finding out what works and what doesn’t my next bet is the community.

I’m always in pugs cuz finding organized games is still new to me, and the winning rate in pugs isn't that great (no matter how good you think you are).

Anyways Back to the original question, How to the Beagle Probes work? and are beagles the solution to this ECM standard?

ps: Hey DEVs, Great Game

[Ryvucz]

You just equip a mech with the beagle probe. It's always in use and does not counter ECM.

[Lerzpftz]

Currently the only effect i know of is, that it improves your sensor range. Combined with a sensor module it can help, to widen the radius a little where you can achieve a lock on an enemy ecm mech ... with this in mind, i find it only usefull on a heavy or assault mech, that can easily afford those 1.5 tons wasted and carries a lot of lockable missiles. Or on a dedicated scout mech, that is trying to relay that target info for your lrm dudes.

[Kasset]

Very descriptive

I need specifics, like;

How do you know when someone on your team deployed it?
How do you know when the other team used it?
Describe a situation in which a Beagle probe would help alot?

and if they are being used, i have yet to notice

Lerzpftz, on 29 December 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Currently the only effect i know of is, that it improves your sensor range. Combined with a sensor module it can help, to widen the radius a little where you can achieve a lock on an enemy ecm mech ... with this in mind, i find it only usefull on a heavy or assault mech, that can easily afford those 1.5 tons wasted and carries a lot of lockable missiles. Or on a dedicated scout mech, that is trying to relay that target info for your lrm dudes.

thank bud, are dedicated scout mechs any useful in a pug?

[Vassago Rain]

You'll know someone has a probe when you start detecting enemies from much farther away.
It makes missile locks faster, too.

Basically, it does nothing against ECM, but it's extremely useful when there's no ECM against you. Take it on laser snipers.

[shintakie]

Theres no actual way to tell if a team member is runnin a beagle active probe unless you ask them. Its not somethin you deploy or hit a button to activate, you simply equip it and you are always runnin the effect. It increases your sensor range (the range at which you can lock onto an enemy, this is still not as far as you can see them), decreases the time it takes to get information on your target (all that info in the top right of your screen), and allows you to detect shut down mechs at close range (the only point of this is if you run a streak boat and someone powers down in front of you, before this made you completely immune to them, if they run BAP they can still shoot you).

BAP is fairly useful in any situation where ECM is not a factor because it allows you to target from farther away which allows your team to target from farther away and it makes it easier to tell what kind of danger an opposin mech is by speedin up the time you can see loadouts significantly. In any situation ECM is a factor BAP becomes 1.5 tons of wasted equipment.

[skullman86]

Kasset, on 29 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

thank bud, are dedicated scout mechs any useful in a pug?

Yeah, if they use ECM and go up against non ECM units. ECM can be used to shut down another player's ECM, but if there are two players with it against your one, it will be like you dont even have it.

Edited by skullman86, 29 December 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[shintakie]

Kasset, on 29 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

thank bud, are dedicated scout mechs any useful in a pug?

They're decently useful if you drop with LRM users on your team. Before I started usin my 6 SPL Cicada I always had BAP and TAG on my Jenner. Sometimes it didn't help at all because I got shoved against an entire team of ECM users, other times it didn't get any use because I didn't have any LRM users on my team. However if ECM wasn't too huge a factor and I actually had 1 or 2 LRM users on my team I really did get to help others quite a bit.

[Krazy Kat]

Longer sensor range, faster targeting, and can detect powered down mechs at close range.



On bigger maps it will be much better.

Edited by Krazy Kat, 29 December 2012 - 07:00 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Vassago Rain, on 29 December 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

Basically, it does nothing against ECM, but it's extremely useful when there's no ECM against you. Take it on laser snipers.

LOL.

This device is trash guys. Don't bother putting it on your Mech until Piranha decides to allow it to do something vs ECM. Fyi snipers are the ones that don't need this, because they use thermals to spot then shoot; they don't rely on or even need radar. Until BAP is buffed to do something vs ECM, it's just a waste of weight, and anything else in the game is a better use of that weight.

[Lerzpftz]

Kasset, on 29 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Very descriptive

I know, i was too lazy to look up the numbers.

Kasset, on 29 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

How do you know when someone on your team deployed it?

You don't.

Kasset, on 29 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

How do you know when the other team used it?

You don't.

Kasset, on 29 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Describe a situation in which a Beagle probe would help alot?

and if they are being used, i have yet to notice

Quote

Disruption Mode:
* ‘Cloaks’ friendlies within 180 meters (reduces detection distance to 25% of normal range).
* Disrupts enemies sensors (targeting system), as well as targeting communication (sharing of targeting information) within 180 meters.
........

* Beagle Active Probe (increases sensor range by 25%, faster target level acquisition by 25%, allows targeting of unpowered mechs within 120m)

* Sensor Range Booster Pilot Module (Increases sensor range by 15%)

I'm often running around in a stalker carrying 5 Streak-SRMs to help against pesky commandos or ravens. Since everybody (and his dog) is carrying ECM nowadays, i found it usefull to be able to get a lock at least some of the time. As it looks, standard detection range is 180*4 =720 meters. Assuming effects of beagle and sensor module are not stacking (not sure about that), they increase that range to at least 1008 meters. Since ECM reduces that to 25% you can get a lock on an enemy if he is somewhere between 180 and ~250 meters. This often is enough to hit them with 1 or 2 streak salvos when they are running around and circling a friendly mech ... if they are circling you and you are alone, you still are kind of f.cked.

Kasset, on 29 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

thank bud, are dedicated scout mechs any useful in a pug?

I don't think so. I only found them effective, when playing in a team with pre-defined roles.

That said, i personally wouldn't put a beagle on a cicada.

Edited by Lerzpftz, 29 December 2012 - 07:13 PM.

[Bunko]

Kasset, on 29 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

How do you know when someone on your team deployed it?

- The person has a 25% boost to radar detect range. You won't unless they are standing next to you and lock a target which relays the target to the group.

Kasset, on 29 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

How do you know when the other team used it?

- When the closest on their team is out of your detect range and missiles start falling on you. (unless you are being TAGed that is )

Kasset, on 29 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Describe a situation in which a Beagle probe would help alot?

- BEAGLE boosts radar range but also detects shutdown mechs. The other day a sneaky Jenner shutdown but I could still find and lock the target. He on the other hand had to power backup while I was shooting him, he died in powerup mode.

Kasset, on 29 December 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

thank bud, are dedicated scout mechs any useful in a pug?

Usefulness of Beacon is not much. If you need anything else ( armor, ammo, hs, weapons ) I would use that instead of Beacon. Only reason I have it is I have none of those available and 1.5 tons open. I run with ECM too.

Would be interesting if Beacon could be used to counter ECM but then in my case I could counter 2 ECMs.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

BAP and sensor module do stack, but BAP is entirely ignored vs ECM, thus don't carry it. Sensor Module actually works vs ECM, shockingly enough, and doesn't even take up anything on your Mech. Cus that makes sense, right? But it is useful for Streaks because your 180-200 window becomes 180-230, which often means the difference between a fired volley or not. But don't tell Piranha about this working sensor range device. Because then they'll axe it like the BAP. *shhhhh*

[Lerzpftz]

Bluten, on 29 December 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

BAP and sensor module do stack, but BAP is entirely ignored vs ECM, thus don't carry it. Sensor Module actually works vs ECM, shockingly enough, and doesn't even take up anything on your Mech.

I always assumed ECM is always reducing the sensor range of a mech by 75%, no matter what the sensor range of that mech is. Is it confirmed that it also subtracts the extended beagle range before applying that 75% reduction?

Quote

* Active Probes do not gain any benefits against ECM equipped enemies

Only thing i found is this thing, which i'd interpret as "doesn't render ECM ineffective" ... anyway. It should help in targeting the ecm shielded mechs, if not the ecm mech itself.

Edited by Lerzpftz, 29 December 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[Kasset]

OK you guys have been great.

so taking from this ive come to the conclsuion that:

1) Beagles are useless if ECM is on the field (which is 9/10)
2) Hard to use without the porper teamate support (so pugs out of the question)
3) Is better suited for mech who need the lock on

IMO: Beagles should be deployable AOEs that negate the effects of ECM( if pressent), and increase all the scanning stuff when ECM isnt there. This ECM stuff is a weird issue within the community,

All the best,
yeee

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Lerzpftz, on 29 December 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

I always assumed ECM is always reducing the sensor range of a mech by 75%, no matter what the sensor range of that mech is. Is it confirmed that it also subtracts the extended beagle range before applying that 75% reduction?

It reduces the enemy to 200m, not by any "percentage". Sensor module then increases 15%.(200 x 1.15 = 230) BAP is also 15% but does absolutely nothing if an enemy is under the effect of an ECM. They get this by either carrying it, or being close to someone(ally) that is. Enemy teams almost always have at least 2 ECMs, and people love huddling near it, so I wouldn't bother with BAP anymore at all. As I said, until it's allowed to do something vs ECM, it's worthless.