30 replies to this topic

[repete]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 06 January 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

...MY answer of what went wrong - Your team was scattered and didn't have the ability to focus firemuch less aim. Team needs to learn teamwork, tactics, and which end of the gun points where...

So your answer to netcode issues (And probably to the the game changer that is ECM) is:

• Just blob / focus fire (Many people's definition of "teamwork")
  
• Bring more ECM

...? Have you not seen the screeds of posts of complaints about how boring this has made MWO become?

[Sir Roland MXIII]

repete, on 06 January 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

So your answer to netcode issues (And probably to the the game changer that is ECM) is:

• Just blob / focus fire (Many people's definition of "teamwork")
  
• Bring more ECM

...? Have you not seen the screeds of posts of complaints about how boring this has made MWO become?

No. That is NOT my answer. MY answer is both simpler and more complex. Simpler because there's WAY more tactics available than are being used. Complex because there are WAY more tactics available than are currently being used.

Savvy?

WVAnonymous, on 06 January 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

Sir Roland, if you read the post immediately preceding yours, an admitted team of 8 lights went 24 W and 0 L. I'm not sure your criticism is generally warranted.

I read that post. My response to you is much the same as my response was to repete.

To be more specific, light pilots are a crazy dedicated diehard bunch. Yes there's oodles of eff-ups in this pile of bugfs we call MW:O that make light pilots difficult to deal with.

This is NOT, and never WILL BE, the whole story. Those who use that as an asnwer and leave it at that are missing the biggest point - light pilots, perhaps more than any other weight class, are CRAZY and to varying degrees, sociopathic. At least mildy bloody minded. Let's face it, one does not get in the modern day equivalent of a JEEP and then take to battle against BEHOMETH sized TANKS with BATTLESHIP sized GUNS when one is SANE. It takes a special type of person to do that, and that, WV, is a light pilot.

How is this relevant? Simple. Those who roll in lights tend to know what the eff they are doing. The same can not always be said of any other weight class, at least not as a mildly general rule. Do all light pilots have skill? No. But, those who WANT to be light pilots, who LIKE being light pilots, DO. And THAT is why I think that all light team had so much success.

I've done the exact sme thing with some of my clan mates. We formed a lance of lights and had the same results. Know what's interesting about that?

WE HAVE ALMOST THE EXACT SAME RESULTS AS THAT NO MATTER WHAT CLASS WE ARE IN. So, as far as my criticism goes I feel it WAS deserved.

Short version, Skill > no Skill. Light Pilot = tends to WANT to be a light pilot and tends also to be good at it. You don't seem to account for that in your criticism of my criticism. So if you still feel that Skill should be trumpable by lack of Skill, than I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 06 January 2013 - 08:48 PM.

[Big Bad Wulf]

WVAnonymous, on 06 January 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

Sir Roland, if you read the post immediately preceding yours, an admitted team of 8 lights went 24 W and 0 L. I'm not sure your criticism is generally warranted.

I think it is, in the end (speaking from experience) an organized group would have grounded these mechs to dust, I have seen time and again a ligth mech killing an entire team on his own because the rest were scattered.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Marcus Wulf, on 06 January 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

I think it is, in the end (speaking from experience) an organized group would have grounded these mechs to dust, I have seen time and again a ligth mech killing an entire team on his own because the rest were scattered.

Agreed, and on the flip side, time and again my Raven 3L gets dusted by a teamup of two or three mechs who fight like they own something between their ears.

Oh and before people climb out from under the brdges to hate on me for using a 3L, I wasted people with it long before we had ECM. My ability with is has changed only slightly in my favor since I recieved ECM. I could fight without it if I so chose, I just choose not to leave ECm out since I'd be a moron if I didn't take every advantage I could.

IE, those who live by the code of honor die to those who don't. (Which btw, The Clans will be learning that the hard way, soon.)

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 06 January 2013 - 08:47 PM.

[machinech]

Straylight, on 31 December 2012 - 04:18 PM, said:

Indeed. Legendary Founder, you'd think he'd know better.

I do wonder how many people who post threads like this honestly believe they're saying something useful or original. Is it still trolling if you don't know you're doing it?

Yes it is, and yes you are...

Ryvucz, on 01 January 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

There is a search function though. This topic has been brought up so many times, and a lot of people agree there are different teams that do different things with the code.

Yes it has been. If it's any indication, issues spoken on repeatedly and with detail, have generally gotten looked at in some part due to the amount of those speaking on them. This forum also has been encouraged as a place to give feedback about issues. Somehow that's been mutated into a place to give oppinion about others oppinion without much focus on the issue itself. Are there a large number of game effecting bugs still in need of attention having persisted for six months... yes. Do some of us feel that we would like some priority focused on them, thereby improving enjoyment of all content by ourselves, and everyone for that matter... yes. If that happened, would it in some way detract from any intended enjoyment of the game... no. Unless of course you like lag shielded, ecm sporting laser/missile death at 140+ kph with zero repercussions for running into any solid object what so ever. In that case, it's best one become prepared for utter disappointment along with those that invested all their enjoyment into the 1 JJ is all one needs in the universe.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

machinech, on 06 January 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

Yes it has been. If it's any indication, issues spoken on repeatedly and with detail, have generally gotten looked at in some part due to the amount of those speaking on them. This forum also has been encouraged as a place to give feedback about issues. Somehow that's been mutated into a place to give oppinion about others oppinion without much focus on the issue itself.

That's the internet for you, if that helps explain that behaviour. I tilted at windmills in the past trying to get that to stop until I quit being Don Quixote and started just ignoring it / laughing at it.

machinech, on 06 January 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

Are there a large number of game effecting bugs still in need of attention having persisted for six months... yes. Do some of us feel that we would like some priority focused on them, thereby improving enjoyment of all content by ourselves, and everyone for that matter... yes. If that happened, would it in some way detract from any intended enjoyment of the game... no. Unless of course you like lag shielded, ecm sporting laser/missile death at 140+ kph with zero repercussions for running into any solid object what so ever. In that case, it's best one become prepared for utter disappointment along with those that invested all their enjoyment into the 1 JJ is all one needs in the universe.

For what it's worth I agree. And yes I am aware of the irony of that given the above. However to add some relevance - the last time the Devs commited to a "hardening" phase (IE a phase where all other work is suspended so as to fix bugs and performance and nothing else, as apllicable to each department) was performed back around August, or July, September at the latest. A new hardening phase is so overdue it's actually stopped being funny two months ago, at least to me, and started being sad... <sigh>. These days, it's just another reason why I don't accuse PGI of extreme competance - more like, "almost enough".

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 06 January 2013 - 09:02 PM.

[Spirit of the Wolf]

Hmm...

Yeah, a 'hardening phase' would very much be appreciated right now. Honestly, though, I really hate lagshield, but I would prefer a fix to the netcode over adding collisions again. (Wait, I will explain why.)

See, collisions were a way to deal with lights who had lagshield (read: all lights), and it made them hittable. There were a few problems, though, because it not only damaged both lights, but a novice light pilot could take out an enemy excellent pilot simply by running into his mech. That's a problem on the same scale as ECM.

Now, if you fix the netcode, you won't need knockdown. You'll be able to hit the lights.

I have 42 mechbays in my mechlab. I know how to pilot many of the mechs in the game, and there are few I don't enjoy playing. I've played the following mechs:
jenners (love 'em)
commando 2d (don't like it. too little armor for me)
cicada (meh)
hunchback (depends on the variant, but I like most of them)
catapult (other than the A1, yes)
cataphract 4x (don't like it enough to get more of them -- I have other mechs)
awesome 8r (love it)
atlas-d (love it)
all 3 dragons (non-hero) (okay. not great though)
stalkers (love 'em)

SO: I know how to pilot many different chassis, and of the ones that I know how to use, I'm good at most of them. I DO NOT USE ECM. I know how annoying it is for me to come up against it, and I honestly think it's so broken that I'd be cheating myself to use it.
My jenner-D has over 60k experience on it. I've already gotten all 8 basic, all 4 elite, and the master skill for it.
I play it a lot. (No, I do not have streaks on it. They're nearly useless on a mech without ECM now.)

I still hate lagshield. No matter what mech I'm in.

The fact that, last time I checked, PGI was still looking for a lead network coder (or something like that), is not indicative of a positive shift in the direction of netcode efficiency any time soon. *sadface*


EDIT:
Oh, for those saying I exploit the lagshield by playing my jenner so much, it's because it's a founder's mech, and I tend to PUG often. (read: more CBills) Guess what? Kinda hard to play a good hunchback 4G (at all, really -- not a great mech for me), or an atlas D, or a catapult C1, when the rest of your team has most likely never even read the guides on the forums. I need teamwork for those mechs, and I don't get the teamwork. So I play a mech that helps others get teamwork -- I keep a TAG on my jenner, and I aim it at the most threatening enemy while I pepper him with lasers.

(I just like being in a mech that goes 140kph -- I don't give a damn about the netcode because I just use the speed to move around the map quickly. Hit & Run tactics are wonderful in a light.)

Edited by Spirit of the Wolf, 07 January 2013 - 09:06 AM.

[Thorn Blackwell]

Pilotasso, on 01 January 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

I do not think its the distribution of mech classes is behind one sided matches. Light mechs own the game now due netcode and absence of collisions (especially conquest mode). Killing half the oppsoing team myself sometimes is not enough to assure a win, After dying I can see my team mates cant aim. Which leaves me to suspect newcomers are being paired with seasoned pilots without any training or costumizations to their mounts.

PGI should group people with similar logged online time, and not by mech class or kill ratio.

It's this kind of elitest snobbery I hate. I don't care if they are noobs or veterans. All I want is an equal number of opponents to allies every match, and equal tonnage per side. What you may see as an inept pilot may be a person who cannot see what is in front of him. What renders for you is not what renders for him. His system specs may not be up to the same par as yours, and he should not be singled out for what may just be a game issue.

I would like the game to not punt people back to desktop. Disconnects need to stop, more than anything else this is ruining the game. All matches should be even numbers and even tonnages, every damn time! All other considerations should be trashed, including the premade vs pug crap that totally screwed up the whole frakkin' game.

[Henree]

Pilotasso, on 01 January 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

I just came from a match where I was in a team of assaults, heavies and 1 light VS a team of cicadas ravens and jenners. We were butchered 8-nill. My team mates scattered and had tremendous difficulty getting their weapons to bear, while the other side pounced in packs. So yeah mech classes as the game stands now is totally overrated.

Commando vs Atlas=Commando wins=epic fail already

[Pilotasso]

Thorn Blackwell, on 08 January 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

It's this kind of elitest snobbery I hate. I don't care if they are noobs or veterans. All I want is an equal number of opponents to allies every match, and equal tonnage per side. What you may see as an inept pilot may be a person who cannot see what is in front of him. What renders for you is not what renders for him. His system specs may not be up to the same par as yours, and he should not be singled out for what may just be a game issue.

I would like the game to not punt people back to desktop. Disconnects need to stop, more than anything else this is ruining the game. All matches should be even numbers and even tonnages, every damn time! All other considerations should be trashed, including the premade vs pug crap that totally screwed up the whole frakkin' game.

EDIT: rephrasing all this post to just 2 sentences to make it simpler for you to understand minimizing the chance of derailing for personal disputes.

Who joins the game is doomed never to enjoy it, neither his experienced team mate because he knows he will be left without support all too quickly.

Summing it up, if fixes are not brought soon before any aditions, this game is bound to gradualy lose playability and interest.

Edited by Pilotasso, 08 January 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[Pilotasso]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 06 January 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

Ok, I just lost ALL ability to take anything you say seriously. Here's a summary of your post:

Problem - OMG we just lost a match where the enemy, a team of lights (somehow, since that's not supposed to be possible) focused fire and stayed in lances and used teamwork against us when we were in mostly assaults. We lost!

YOUR 'answer' as to what went wrong - Mech classes are broken. Fix mech classes.

MY answer of what went wrong - Your team was scattered and didn't have the ability to focus firemuch less aim. Team needs to learn teamwork, tactics, and which end of the gun points where.

So, I look at what you just said and all I could think is... you can NOT be serious. Obviously you are, hence I just lost all ability to take you as serious as you want to be taken. Good lord, what a joke.

EDIT - yeah mismatched matches could happen since it's a shorter list of what ISN'T bugged in this game, than what is. However, the fact you lost had NOTHING, from YOUR account of it, to do with the mismatch in weight. You YOURSELF seemed to gloss over that you're team was green and there's was NOT.

Teamwork > no teamwork. Skill > no skill. Teamwork PLUS skill = hard to beat team, especially against green mechwarriors. PERIOD. You're logic is ridiculously flawed.

EDIT II - Also, if I misread your post I apologize - but that was what seemed to be the take-away there.

You just interpreted what I wrote in your own terms. Similar problem with the quote obove this one.

I never said to fix the classes this is nearly the opposite of what I said. English is only my second language but I think I was very very clear explaining it:

Pilotasso, on 01 January 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

I do not think its the distribution of mech classes is behind one sided matches. Light mechs own the game now due netcode and absence of collisions (especially conquest mode). Killing half the oppsoing team myself sometimes is not enough to assure a win, After dying I can see my team mates cant aim. Which leaves me to suspect newcomers are being paired with seasoned pilots without any training or costumizations to their mounts.

PGI should group people with similar logged online time, and not by mech class or kill ratio.

Just read your message again, and it sounds completely out of the line, silly even.

Edited by Pilotasso, 08 January 2013 - 11:49 AM.