73 replies to this topic

[DocBach]

Tons of other 'Mechs have easily targeted side torsos - like the Atlas and Awesome. Can we get special armor for the Atlas's Gauss rifle? Mine gets shot off too much and its game breaking.

Thanks.

[Khobai]

Yep my Awesome gets hit in the head too much. Can i have a bucket that goes over my Awesome head.

[Sug]

They're going to have to shrink the launchers down and integrate them more into the torsos or give them the a permanent version of the damage reduction that missile bays doors receive.

This is just another problem resulting from giving weapons pinpoint accuracy.

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/8...ued-from-closed-beta/

Edited by Sug, 09 January 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[Khobai]

They dont have to shrink them down at all. If you wanna play a madcat deal with that downside. Just like awesome pilots deal with getting headshotted easily.

[ElcomeSoft]

I discussed this about the Mauler several months ago back in early closed beta with a friend. Many mechs are plagued with similar issues and we could not decide on an appropriate action to take to keep them from being easy prey or overpowered.

We were glad that it was up to PGI to resolve it, not us )

[Sug]

Khobai, on 09 January 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

They dont have to shrink them down at all. If you wanna play a madcat deal with that downside. Just like awesome pilots deal with getting headshotted easily.

Oh right I remember that. Didn't they solve that problem by shrinking the heat hit box on Awesomes.

[Khobai]

Quote

Oh right I remember that. Didn't they solve that problem by shrinking the heat hit box on Awesomes.

Yep. It still has one of the biggest heads though. Also the center torso on the Awesome is still obnoxiously large so lets make that two seperate hit locations too. The same argument for the Mad Cat having seperate hit locations for its launchers can be applied to any mech that currently has an abnormally large hit location compared to other mechs in its weight class.

If youre going to give one mech a balance advantage then every mech suffering from the same problem needs to get that same advantage. Otherwise you're creating imbalance. Quite frankly its a slippery slope... and one that PGI would do best to avoid by just making the launchers part of the mad cat's side torsos (with a possible 10% damage reduction for missile doors)

Furthermore, its a Mad Cat, it gets clan tech... so why are we even having this discussion? Clan tech is like 50% better than IS tech. The Mad Cat is going to be an absolute MONSTER regardless of whether it has large side torsos or not. If the Mad Cat was an IS mech I might be more inclined to agree something needed to be done, but the very fact its a vastly superior clan mech, I see no issue with incorporating a weakness in its design.

Edited by Khobai, 09 January 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[GioAvanti]

The Madcats shoulders will likely count as left and right torsos.... I really don't see the issue. I know people want to pwn noobs in their madcat.... but seriously... a mech's shape is a mech's shape... you'll be moving very quickly and won't be able to be side torso killed in a Madcat... you'll also have access to MUCH more dmg & range....

Seems like you're good to go with the shoulders being the shoulders.

[Jetfire]

Hunchback 4J with two hunches. There you go and there ya be.

[Foksuh]

Yeah, those are obviously side-torso racks, but likely sliiightly smaller targets.
I mean, when you lose side-torso, you also loose an arm.
That's gonna be pretty crippling, especially if the racks were big targets like in the drawing.

[Orzorn]

Due to the machine guns in side torsos, I highly expect many people to basically do the same to the Timber Wolf as was done to the Catapult.

[General Taskeen]

The Timber Wolf's Missile Racks are an extension of its Side Torso's. The side torso also extends down the side of the cockpit, rendered in this nice art. Likewise, the Machine Gun and Medium Pulse on either side of the cockpit are part of the side torso's:

[Strum Wealh]

Orzorn, on 09 January 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

Due to the machine guns in side torsos, I highly expect many people to basically do the same to the Timber Wolf as was done to the Catapult.

Not quite - the record sheet shows one MG in the CT, while the other is in the RT with the LRM launcher.


Because Clan XL engines require only two criticals in each side-torso, the Mad Cat should be qable to survive the loss of either side-torso (but not the loss of both side-torsos).

Also of note is all of that nice, (relatively) thin glass that is front-and-center...

[LionZoo]

Am I really reading a thread calling for a buff on the Timber Wolf / Mad Cat to make it viable?

[Deadoon]

Yep, this piece of equipment that is above your whole body supposedly contains parts of your fusion engine and internal components and is above your arms, yet will knock them off if lost, despite being only a missile launch platform...

I'd say split the side torsos into 2 halves for damage boxes. Missiles mounted in the side torso for items wise get mounted in the launchers lasers and ballistics in the torso.

Also, I'll still drop that med pulse laser replace it with 4 more machine guns(one in ct, another in the right side side an 2 in the left) and another dhs.

LionZoo, on 09 January 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

Am I really reading a thread calling for a buff on the Timber Wolf / Mad Cat to make it viable?

No, it is a thread about how stupid it would be if a missile launcher carried part of your fusion engine much lower mounted weapons.

Edited by Deadoon, 09 January 2013 - 01:55 PM.

[DuSucre]

LOL !
The iconic, epic and badass Timberwolf will suffer the "hunchback syndrome"... on both sides...

I can't stop laughing ...

[IamTheEggMan]

I'll put it this way; if some freebirth gets close enough to my timberwolf to target my launchers, then I deserve to have my nice stompy mech blown out from under me.

[Deadoon]

DuSucre, on 09 January 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

LOL !
The iconic, epic and badass Timberwolf will suffer the "hunchback syndrome"... on both sides...

I can't stop laughing ...

I'd love a vulture/mad dog flattish profile, arms are inline with cockpit height it's arms and shoulders are tiny, it is like an omni dragon. Too bad it has ferro, not endo.

IamTheEggMan, on 09 January 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

I'll put it this way; if some freebirth gets close enough to my timberwolf to target my launchers, then I deserve to have my nice stompy mech blown out from under me.

Gauss cats will love your ignorance.

Edited by Deadoon, 09 January 2013 - 02:36 PM.

[Odins Fist]

I think this issue has been made "WAY" more complicated than it needs to be. I'm not talking about the BattleTech Mech sheets.
A simple game of numbers, and hit box size would be enough to test the Timberwolf out, and I do believe they have private testers that can handle the job.

[MuonNeutrino]

Problem is, there's issues with both the 'they're side torso' and 'they're special locations' methods.

Obviously, making them side torso significantly increases the vulnerability of the mech, and as pointed out you have the odd situation of being shot in the missile launcher somehow blowing out your engines. However, making them unique locations also has the issue that it effectively gives the mech more toughness overall, since it simply has more areas to absorb fire with. If those locations have their own armor and internal structure pools, then the timber wolf would have more total hit points than a 75 tonner is 'supposed' to have if you add them up over the whole mech.

Personally I'd be inclined to try and implement some sort of hybrid solution. It's important to not give the launchers their own pool of armor, but it'd still be good to not let them blow up the mech when shot. Perhaps something along the lines of making them count as side torso for armor purposes but get blown off separately from the side torso once the armor is gone?