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Pre-Made Groups Make This Game Horrible


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#41 Vassago Rain

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:53 PM

View PostTarman, on 16 January 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Nobody is claiming this is a 100% thing. I live the pug life and know it's about dying some days and being a god in others. Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you. Pug life. If you can't hack it then pugs aren't for you (not you personally).

It's about all the hype and bluster that organized team players threw up for ages, until they got a chance to put their AC20 where their mouth was. WE NEEDS 8MANZ FOR OUR ELITE TEAMSKILLS was the cry for a long time, along with claims that these magical millions of large organized groups were the driving force of the entire game and NEEDED full-on team matching or there would be no game.

Well, we got a place for them to play, and guess what? Now the story is OMG 8MANZ IS HARD AND I ONLY HAVE 3 FRIENDS I CANT PLAY PLUS ECM TEAMS SUK IMA GO ROLL SOME PUGS WITH 4MANZ OR DOUBLE 4MANZ BECAUSE THATS STILL WITHIN MY SKILLSET. I'm quite sure any actual teams wanting to 8man are disappointed at the lack of competition, since so many of the lesser team players melted back down into pug arenas where they know they can have a chance.

Again, this is not everyone across the board, absolutes are silly. But most puggers have zero respect for the teamers who are only there because it's easy money.


Hey, remember that terrible thread someone made when we were hours away from getting 8 manz? It think it was a battleborn knight, but I can't be absolutely certain.

Anyway, it had all these pictures and cute mentions of the elite 420 noscopers being the MWO equivalents to the clans, and this was their exodus from the pub ghetto of the sphere. Well, we got 8 manz, and WHAT WOULD YOU KNOW! We roll them for days on end, watching them ragequit, and having riffleman reporting on their puny, silent return to pub ghetto farming.

I remember when they had these crazy ideas that XL engines for OMG UBER, so you saw lots of 100% XL mechs in the 8 manz, that cut matches about 3 minutes shorter. Those guys were never seen again, in either 8 manz or the ghetto.

View PostZylo, on 16 January 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

I just asked the question because of the time shown on your forum account.

I just find it strange that your forum account shows "member since" as 5 minutes before your post when I mouse over your name.


It sets the timer from when you first login to the forum. This account was made way, way, way before the date listed, back when I had many of them going, and had yet to purchase founders.

#42 HighlandCoo

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:54 PM

Oh yeah I remember that too - that was the one with the cruise ship picture. Funny how things turn out.

#43 Dovvol

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:57 PM

I played about 30 matches today and all with PUGs and I won at least 20 of these games. (not saying I'm gods gift to mechwarriors cause I have my oh crap moments) but trying to say a 4 man will dominate every game is the same as saying a Raven is unhittable. I've had my days where I lose more than I win with pugs, but even with premades mixed with pugs, the fight can go either way. Just depends oh how adaptable your teammates are and how well they know their mech. Just cause you lose a match doesn't mean the other team has 4 or more grouped together, just means they were better than your team.

#44 Xmith

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 08:58 PM

All steamrolls are not from premades. There are a lot of p.u.g. pilots that will end up with the top score sometimes. Myself included. Don't pay any attention to those elitest who think the only way to play is to talk into a mike.

#45 Vassago Rain

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:00 PM

View PostHighlandCoo, on 16 January 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Oh yeah I remember that too - that was the one with the cruise ship picture. Funny how things turn out.


"FAREWELL, INNER SPHERE SCUM! MAY WE NEVER MEET AGAIN, EVEN AS ENEMIES! THE GLORY OF THE CLANS DEMAND I TAKE MY TRUEBORN WARRIORS TO THE PENTAGON WORLDS!"

Then the noble star colonel ran into the actual trueborn of Kong, and got his mech, his honor, his team, his fortress, and even his genes lost in a trial of possession. Now he patrols the pub ghetto, as a dark caste pirate - the lowest form of life known to both the sphere and the clans.

#46 Felix

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:02 PM

View PostRahl, on 16 January 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

Oh look more QQ coming from people that refuse to admit thats this is a team based game.

get in a team , its not hard, tons of units recruiting.



Translation for those who dont speak elitest-tard: "You want to play Solo? **** YOU, you are not allowed to have fun!"

#47 Tarman

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:05 PM

View PostDovvol, on 16 January 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

I played about 30 matches today and all with PUGs and I won at least 20 of these games. (not saying I'm gods gift to mechwarriors cause I have my oh crap moments) but trying to say a 4 man will dominate every game is the same as saying a Raven is unhittable. I've had my days where I lose more than I win with pugs, but even with premades mixed with pugs, the fight can go either way. Just depends oh how adaptable your teammates are and how well they know their mech. Just cause you lose a match doesn't mean the other team has 4 or more grouped together, just means they were better than your team.



On a game-by-game basis, this is indeed true; nobody wins 100% of the time. But dial out a level and take a look at the system. The SYSTEM is what is broken. There shouldn't be a point where a potentially organized team of veterans who've been playing since CB can freely prey upon pilots who haven't even cleared their Cadet bonus.

Overall a 4man has a much higher chance of success because they are not fighting a generally equal opponent; the field is tilted in their favour for a number of reasons. Whether they capitalize on their advantage does not mean there is no advantage. It is poor/non-existent matchmaking design and engenders all the fun ill-will we have now between solo pubbies, casual teams, lameo farmers, and oldschool bittervets.

#48 Rahl

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:07 PM

View PostFelix, on 16 January 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:



Translation for those who dont speak elitest-tard: "You want to play Solo? **** YOU, you are not allowed to have fun!"



thats not elitest tard thats the truth.why play a team based game and not be part of the team?

Sure drop solo all ya want, run off get killed, than come cry about it?

ya the advice must be for people like you.

#49 Wraith05

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:13 PM

View PostHighlandCoo, on 16 January 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:



Ah right sorry - because I have not installed a 3rd party application and bought a mic, I should not be entitled to have as much fun as you. Of course sorry your right, I'm so silly.

I never understood the hate of teamspeak? It downloads faster than the MWO download took. Many people use it safely. The forums even have info to 2 unofficial servers. So why the hate/unwillingness for a 3rd person?

But even if it was incorporated into the game I doubt many pug's would use it.

As for the mic, you don't need one. If you have speakers/sound you can listen to someone give commands/coordinate with them that way. I did when I first started.

And it's funny to use the entitlement arguement,because the way I am viewing you is you feel entitlted to win even though you don't play as a team.

#50 HighlandCoo

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:14 PM

View PostRahl, on 16 January 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:



thats not elitest tard thats the truth.why play a team based game and not be part of the team?

Sure drop solo all ya want, run off get killed, than come cry about it?

ya the advice must be for people like you.



Your wrong. There are broken systems in place that allow 4 man teams to shoot at people in trial mechs on their first match.

Your just being stubborn.

#51 Quxudica

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

Quote

Oh look more QQ coming from people that refuse to admit thats this is a team based game.

get in a team , its not hard, tons of units recruiting.



View PostRahl, on 16 January 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:



thats not elitest tard thats the truth.why play a team based game and not be part of the team?

Sure drop solo all ya want, run off get killed, than come cry about it?

ya the advice must be for people like you.



I know this is a hard concept for many people to understand, so I will try to speak slowly.. via text.. and use small words: Those other Mechs around you when you start? You know, the friendly ones that usually don't try to shoot you? The ones that list on the same panel as you in the score tab? That's what's called a team, that you are added too to play this team game. It's crazy I know but there's even more here, you can actually chat with them, communicate if you will. Co-ordinate even. Now, you may not play as well with them as you would with friends using a third party program - but believe it or not you are in fact playing the game the way it was meant to be played every single time you hit launch, and anyone whom plays deserves to have the best chance possible of having an enjoyable experience.

Once upon a time, we didn't have easy to use voice communication or sometimes any ability at all to easily communicate with the people we played with during the birth of online gaming. Sure we played with friends whenever we could, but you know what? We also played with strangers, and worked with them as best we could, sometimes even inventing our own little signals to talk to each other without the aid of a microphone or even text chat, and we did just fine. Because we were there to play a game and win, not lord our smugness over those that dared to have fun with new people while simultaneously picking the easiest possible matches.

Quote



I never understood the hate of teamspeak? It downloads faster than the MWO download took. Many people use it safely. The forums even have info to 2 unofficial servers. So why the hate/unwillingness for a 3rd person?


Some people don't have solid enough internet, or a fast enough system, able to run a game with programs in the background. TS and similar applications may have a light footprint but technology is fickle, you never know what issues will pop up. Other people play in an environment that they cannot have the additional sound, such as with people sleeping nearby at night, others may be locked down to a certain amount of bandwidth usage (college internet is particularly guilty of this and some places won't even allow you to connect with certain applications on your rig).

In short, people have their reasons. While using voice comms is preferable, it's by no means mandatory.

Edited by Quxudica, 16 January 2013 - 09:28 PM.


#52 Asha Burnett

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:23 PM

View PostRahl, on 16 January 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

thats not elitest tard thats the truth.why play a team based game and not be part of the team?


MWO is a team base game, yes. And whenever a lone wolf enters a game he is grouped with 7 others (hopefully)

Edited by Asha Burnett, 16 January 2013 - 09:24 PM.


#53 Kahoumono

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:24 PM

Premades do ruin the experience for average PUGs and potentially hurt the future of this game. I don't know what the strict definition of premades is, do TS PUGs count? I think pure PUGs are at a complete disadvantage if TS groups can coordinate loadouts prior to searching for a game. Knowing what mech others are dropping with is already an advantage. Plus, making the effort to get on TS means you are already more dedicated to the game than the average PUG. That is on top of the actual premades with coordinated tactics. If this continues you'll have two tiers of players, the diehards and the novices. Novices who get run over 80% of the time aren't going to stick around so the community won't grow. Yes, this is a team game but it shouldn't be mandatory for those of us who just want to pew pew.

#54 Corvus Antaka

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:25 PM

hopefully with ELO 4 mans will always drop vs other 4 mans + 4 pugs or 2 4 mans per team.

#55 Vassago Rain

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:25 PM

View PostWraith05, on 16 January 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

I never understood the hate of teamspeak? It downloads faster than the MWO download took. Many people use it safely. The forums even have info to 2 unofficial servers. So why the hate/unwillingness for a 3rd person?

But even if it was incorporated into the game I doubt many pug's would use it.

As for the mic, you don't need one. If you have speakers/sound you can listen to someone give commands/coordinate with them that way. I did when I first started.

And it's funny to use the entitlement arguement,because the way I am viewing you is you feel entitlted to win even though you don't play as a team.


A game should never require a third party tool to be functional.
MWO currently does. 95% of everybody generally refuse, and rightfully so, to go grab deal 2595025 downloads off a third party site to get the game itself to a playable state.

That they'd release what they're marketing as a highly competitive team game, the counter-strike of tanks and robots, without voice, lobbies, or anything at all, in the year 2012, was shocking.

#56 Felix

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:27 PM

View PostRahl, on 16 January 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:



thats not elitest tard thats the truth.why play a team based game and not be part of the team?

Sure drop solo all ya want, run off get killed, than come cry about it?

ya the advice must be for people like you.


People like me? haha ******* fool.

I had an outfit that played this game (Granted we all quit when the devs started to make really stupid decisions)

I am just not an ******* who doesnt think of other people. I enjoyed doing 8 and 4 mans with my outfit, but I know there are people who also enjoy droping solo.

And I dont think that this game should cater soley to elitist-***** who only think that people who team up should be allowed to have fun.

#57 Serapth

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:27 PM

View PostRahl, on 16 January 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:


And i wonder why that is drop in a 8 man is about as fun as grinding your teeth.

get 8 cue up
possibly wait for it to find a match may take a few times


What I find troubling about reading this over and over and over, is, if all the people that were saying it went ahead and played 8-man games, it would no longer be a problem.


Quote

find a match other team is running 6 atlas ecm and 2 ravens ecm

really not that much fun to be had..


So, you think the trickle down is any better in pug land... where by defintion a pug can bring a 1 man crew against... 4 ECM Ravens or 4 ECM Atlases, etc... ? If you find it frustrating in 8man, just imagine how annoying the poor guy in a trial mech feels when he is ***** by 4 Ravens he cant lock on!

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i know our unit would like to be more old school since we came from that, oh you know 2-2-2-2 , 1-2-3-2, 1-3-2-2, set ups like that instead of boring *** 800 tons of same mech over and over.

once they and if they finally figure matchmaking out more will play it again.

hell the pops dropped so low that que up and some nights it fails to find match's alot.


You know, this is *EXACTLY* what pugs are saying about premades right? Hell, most pugs just want a premade stuck on each side, or failing that, balancing out how many people get ECM. There are rarely even complaints about weight mismatches anymore.

Quote

Devs keep giving us crap patchs, more lights we don't need since lagshield and hit boxs are still broke. failure to fix bugs that been around since closed beta for some people etc.

Pugs QQ until devs catered to them and made it worse. They haven t fixed 2-4 man sync drops as of yet, but thats pretty rare when you run into them, but it does happen.


What exactly have PUGs got... please spell it out?

#58 Tarman

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:31 PM

View PostRahl, on 16 January 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:



thats not elitest tard thats the truth.why play a team based game and not be part of the team?

Sure drop solo all ya want, run off get killed, than come cry about it?

ya the advice must be for people like you.



Dude, let me explain this to you so you can follow along with the rest of the class. I'll try to keep it simple.

Team game. Yes, yes it is. When you drop in a pug, you are put on a side. That is your team. You play nice with them or you get rolled. Pugging != solo gaming. Easy peasy.

No pug that wants to live to the end of the match drives off all Rambo-style. That is NOT pugging, that is suicide. Only a gluehead doesn't know that.

Pugs do not need to find like-minded individuals and get one of them to draw a coooool sig banner so that they may partake of team-based giant robot combat; the game provides for that in its basic form.

NOW, said groups that DO make their cool sig banners, enjoy playing together with the same people as a "unit". This is different from the basic "team" as laid out by the actual game. This is a pseudo-military group of players who enjoy each others' company and piloting, and will drop together instead of being randomly seeded across various matches.

Still following along? Good. This is the crossover section. Now, the "unit" gives inherent advantages over people who are teamed at random; better coordination in tactics and loadout due to practice, familiarity and planning. Combine this inherent advantage with the fact that the random teamup could include any number of completely new players, and the inherent advantage becomes greater when a "unit" meets a pug "team".

Many "units", before the advent of 8-man matchups, enjoyed the advantages they held over pug teams. When they were presented with the option to play against units which had all the same advantages as they did, the matches became more even, as it took more skill to stay alive against someone with the same chances and advantages as your own unit. This sat ill with the units that were more interested in winning than fighting, and many of said players took their 4-man unit back into pugs where they could once again enjoy inherent advantages to help them get the stats and wins they were looking for.

#59 Serapth

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:32 PM

View PostWraith05, on 16 January 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

I never understood the hate of teamspeak?



I think the part you never understood, isn't the team speak part, but the motivation part.

Some people are more casual than you ( that does not mean less skilled, not even close ). Some people have less time, can't dedicate an environment to the game ( family asleep, etc.. ), are more transitory, or simply dont want to install a 3rd party piece of software. Some people play MWO exactly because it can be played in 15 minutes intervals. There are dozens of reasons why someone wouldn't want to use teamspeak, or why they expect a different experience from the game than you. That doesn't make them wrong, or right, nor does it make you wrong or right. But saying that are wrong, certainly does make you wrong.

#60 GalaxyBluestar

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:33 PM

View PostPANZERBUNNY, on 16 January 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

You learn through losing though.

that should keep some people warm at night.

The only lesson learned over and over though is that you should have joined at least a 4 man.


oddly enough i've pugged my whole time here and i've never really been too bothered by premades, the only obvious one's before and after ecm were the 3-4 lrm boaters and sometimes you can flank and beat them other times they just pin and force you out into the open. and those were the obvious ones the others if they were there offer no more of a hassel then a good bunch of puggers. i'm wondering if this trend is more, am i the only vet here except for those many many ones teamed on the other side. the losses consistantly record 4-5 players scoreing under 100. i'm not convinced that the premade mechanic is a game breaker but the elements that premades have been abusing is breaking the game. 4 ecm ravens ecm lrming etc etc just other mechanics which are broken anyways.

match maker phase 3 is coming sometime so we'll hopefully see less mech boating vs randoms





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