291 replies to this topic

[B0oN]

Pihb, on 21 January 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

You drive a light mech, you know you have an unfair advantage over everyone else. How do you square this in your head? Put aside the fact that PGI has not called what you do cheating. How do you go out every match, in a mech that you and everyone knows has an unfair advantage. If you were a 13 year old i would understand why you enjoy having an I win button. I loved cheat codes when i was 13.

The solution to your problem is called "leading a shot" , Sir.

[SmoothCriminal]

Rad Hanzo, on 22 January 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

The solution to your problem is called "leading a shot" , Sir.

Or Lasers.
Or Counter ECM.
Or hanging around your own lights.
Or just sticking in your group in general.

I'm not saying that ECM isn't OP; with the net code in its present state it is. But once ballistics can accurately and reliably hit lights I'm sure Raven 3Ls will dissipate.

[BL00D RAVEN]

Roland, on 22 January 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

But that's the thing, right?

You drive a 3L, because it carries ECM and streaks.. which essentially mean that you get a huge advantage over all other light mechs which can't carry that combination, because the streaks do not rely on lag shooting.

If lag shooting were as trivial as you suggest, then you wouldn't need to run streaks.. but you do run them, right?

Simply because it's possible to hit light mechs does not mean that light mechs do not benefit hugely from a lag shield.

i do better killing the raven 3l in the spider 5d than in another 3l, streaks make them weak against agility and ecm

go arm lasers

[Roland]

BL00D RAVEN, on 22 January 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

i do better killing the raven 3l in the spider 5d than in another 3l, streaks make them weak against agility and ecm

go arm lasers

Er.. If you are in a 3L, then the ECM doesn't do anything to stop your streaks.

And streaks will always do consistent damage, every single time you pull the trigger.

In your spider, you are going to be trying to lag shoot the raven, while he just obliterates you with streaks. Your 3 medium lasers aren't really gonna put a dent in him before his streaks tear you apart.

I mean, unless the raven pilot doesn't actually understand how to use his ECM.

[Hotthedd]

The rationale is simple:

We are beta testers. Our job is to find in-game exploits and report to the developers. I run my 3L in the hopes that the developers will see/hear that the combination of ECM + SSRMs + no collisions + lagshield + warped hitboxes = a broken mechanic.

[BL00D RAVEN]

Roland, on 22 January 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Er.. If you are in a 3L, then the ECM doesn't do anything to stop your streaks.

And streaks will always do consistent damage, every single time you pull the trigger.

In your spider, you are going to be trying to lag shoot the raven, while he just obliterates you with streaks. Your 3 medium lasers aren't really gonna put a dent in him before his streaks tear you apart.

I mean, unless the raven pilot doesn't actually understand how to use his ECM.

circles and figure 8s mean no/minimal lock time
and it's 2 mls only use the arm lasers and remember to block with the empty arm

Edited by BL00D RAVEN, 22 January 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[Havyek]

The rotating arm is what makes the Commando so deadly against Ravens.

You can run around outside of it's target zone and drag your arm and maintain missile lock.

[t0ast]

Roland, on 22 January 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

You drive a 3L, because it carries ECM and streaks.. which essentially mean that you get a huge advantage over all other light mechs which can't carry that combination, because the streaks do not rely on lag shooting.

If lag shooting were as trivial as you suggest, then you wouldn't need to run streaks.. but you do run them, right?

Simply because it's possible to hit light mechs does not mean that light mechs do not benefit hugely from a lag shield.

Yes, yes I do get that advantage. ECM + Streaks is the most viable and reliable setup with the game as it is now. Anything else has to deal with an uphill battle on account of the netcode and current state of the game mechanics. Additionally, it's best counter is itself. Under such circumstances which are forced upon us, one would be foolish to go without these pieces of equipment at this weight tier and expect an equal degree or consistency of success. Welcome to the world of volatile balance, brought to you by the MMO genre and the Beta stage of development. You gotta learn to adapt or you're gonna have a bad time.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to get at with your second point. When it comes to light vs. light, there is no replacement for streaks, but if we widen the scope to include all of those other mechs (as is more in the spirit of the original topic) with more potent armor and weaponry, lag-shooting skills with a direct-fire weapon can most certainly beat out our little streak splashes.

Not saying we don't benefit from the lag shield, because we do. Just saying that it is not exclusively beneficial to this weight tier and that it is, in fact, possible for those outside it to overcome it.

Edited by t0ast, 22 January 2013 - 04:05 PM.

[The Helepolis]

[Jenova Stark]

Buckminster, on 22 January 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

Next mech on my to-get list is the Raven 4X, I'll be curious to see how it compares to it's ECM brother.

Before the 3L was released, I piloted the 4X almost exclusively. Having jump jets on a raven is great fun, however, due to greater engine restrictions you can't get the speed you need to compete evenly with other lights and your weapons will be gimped due to having two slots dedicated to projectiles and no effective projectile weapon that is light enough to use. Add to that the lack of ECM and you become cannon fodder to all but the worst pilots.

Back in the day a skilled raven 4x pilot could go toe to toe with a jenner even though jenners were better in every way on paper. Those were the good ole days. Then came the advent of streak cat builds and artemis lrm boats. During that era you couldn't have a light brawl or even pop your head out of a tunnel without instantly dying. I haven't piloted a 4x since the artemis disaster.

In today's game, I doubt the 4x could be competitive with all the ECM carrying lights running around even if you are a skilled pilot. No non-ecm lights are viable in today's game for the same reason.

Despite its flaws, I like what ECM has done to the game. I think the most fun way to play is to get everyone out in the middle and have a giant brawl. I understand that some people like sniping and others like to sit at their base and mindlessly smash a button to win (artemis lrm boats), but those ways of fighting aren't my preferred style.

Edited by Jenova Stark, 23 January 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

all we need to fix netcode then is a tutorial on how to hit a randomly determined point upwards of three lengths ahead of your target

[Buckminster]

Jenova Stark, on 23 January 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Before the 3L was released, I piloted the 4X almost exclusively. Having jump jets on a raven is great fun, however, due to greater engine restrictions you can't get the speed you need to compete evenly with other lights and your weapons will be gimped due to having two slots dedicated to projectiles and no effective projectile weapon that is light enough to use. Add to that the lack of ECM and you become cannon fodder to all but the worst pilots.

Back in the day a skilled raven 4x pilot could go toe to toe with a jenner even though jenners were better in every way on paper. Those were the good ole days. Then came the advent of streak cat builds and artemis lrm boats. During that era you couldn't have a light brawl or even pop your head out of a tunnel without instantly dying. I haven't piloted a 4x since the artemis disaster.

In today's game, I doubt the 4x could be competitive with all the ECM carrying lights running around even if you are a skilled pilot. No non-ecm lights are viable in today's game for the same reason.

Despite its flaws, I like what ECM has done to the game. I think the most fun way to play is to get everyone out in the middle and have a giant brawl. I understand that some people like sniping and others like to sit at their base and mindlessly smash a button to win (artemis lrm boats), but those ways of fighting aren't my preferred style.

Thanks for the heads up. I was thinking of putting together some kind of 4X with an AC/2 and a streak, maybe a couple small lasers to round out the weapons. Although I do have a feeling that I'll break down and use some MC to convert other mech XP over to GXP just to get it done with.