424 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

given that in the dropship mode, theyre planning on doing pretty much exactly that (and the fact you could buy 4 of the same mech and game it like that yourself) they are planning it

[Thirdstar]

xRaeder, on 25 January 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

snip...................

NOOOOOOOOOO!!! Respawn touched me inappropriately.

Everyone who plays respawns is a poopy head, no skill moron who want to ruin my game experience and eat my dog.

[Kurshuk]

I'm open to the idea of bringing a 'group' of 2-4 mechs/player that you could drop in after dying. So say that you have a stable of mechs building up. Then you go to drop into a game. Since we have 4 trials it doesn't preclude someone from dropping with 4 even if they don't own any mechs. Since there will always be a light, medium, heavy, and assault mech in the trials we could then align the dropship mode so that you select a light, medium, heavy, and assault mech to bring. That way the MM could take a chill pill since everyone would have the same weight classes.

I would be ok if that didn't happen though. I can see people complaining that they only want to bring 4 assaults or that they only want to bring 4 lights. I don't necessarily mind because I drive everything from commando to atlas, but I could see the argument coming up. Another issue is that I feel it would still lose a little immersion. But I would trade the immersion for 4 drops/person because then we get to trash 64 mechs/game instead of 16 and even though the games take longer I think the rewards would be in line for the time spend since you're still getting rewards for ripping off componants or destorying mechs. Maybe have a conquest mode that goes to 3000 points and lasts 30-45 minutes.

Just a thought,
Kurshuk

[smokefield]

maybe i phrased it wrong...when someone cannot take a loss like a man he is a crappy loser. is not name calling if that you mean...

edit :

i see that ppl think we are totally against respawn...we are against the unlimited respawn mode.

Edited by smokefield, 25 January 2013 - 08:53 AM.

[XtremWarrior]

Respawn should be an option, just to let some of us do longer games if they want to.

But there is a thing that i keep thinking of:
I like to make those Mechs fight but i think any Mechwarriors game should have smaller vehicles like artillery or tank compagnies just to remember that those steelth titans are really some kind of ultimate weapon, especially vs regular armies that don't include mechs
.
So i was wondering if MWO could have some kind of a DOTA mod, with tanks for spawns and Mechs as heroes?
I just love the idea of Mechs tearing each other appart in the middle of a large scale battle including tanks and defensive structures.
What do you think of that? (even if I'm probably not the first guy who talk about that)

(PS: sorry if my english is not fully understandable)

[Tarman]

It's like checkers or chess, you don't get your pieces back if you make a mistake. This is the basic premise of errors being costly that's dulled when respawns are added to the basic gameplay we have now. A game of chess where you get your pieces back after losing them in a tactical error would be a lot less challenging. MWO is about staying alive each match while maximizing your usefulness. One life per match, since it's a basic component of a larger eventual game based on territorial warfare and not just pewing, fun as pewing is. Yes, there are respawns in Planetside 2, but the territorial warfare is different there and on a different scale.

Your tactical decision-making is less important if your manpower pool has a regeneration quality. It affects a very basic way a player thinks about the game that changes a lot of other things about the gameplay. I do not want to play this game with a fundamental difference like that. Dropship is more interesting because you still have to plan what you bring. It's not a simple respawn, it's a limited pool of kit you had to bring to the battle beforehand intentionally. You plan for the long haul and hope you don't NEED to burn through everything on the ship. Pack 4 joke Commandos and suffer the consequences, that kind of thing. Dropship also adds a thin-yet-enjoyable coat of immersion paint.

BLAMAAAAAPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWBOOOMBUDDABUDDABUDAAABLAMBLAMx______X. <-- Planetside 2

Respawn is fun in PS2 because life IS so cheap, it's the visceral thrill of being in large-scale infantry and fast vehicle combat with no regard for the massive amounts of personal casualties you cause or take, like all the best action scenes in a war movie almost all the time, while even the respawning of people and vehicles is powered ingame by handwavium instead of just happening because I R GAME I DO GAME THINGS. It's fun there but it's not a good addition to MWO. It changes too much about the current game here that makes it good.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

smokefield, on 25 January 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

maybe i phrased it wrong...when someone cannot take a loss like a man he is a crappy loser. is not name calling if that you mean...

edit :

i see that ppl think we are totally against respawn...we are against the unlimited respawn mode.

that I can agree with. The dropship mode thing Im actually looking forward to

[Thirdstar]

smokefield, on 25 January 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

maybe i phrased it wrong...when someone cannot take a loss like a man he is a crappy loser. is not name calling if that you mean...

edit :

i see that ppl think we are totally against respawn...we are against the unlimited respawn mode.

And you think a sore loser and someone who wants a respawn mode are the same person because...........?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Tarman, on 25 January 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

while even the respawning of people and vehicles is powered ingame by handwavium instead of just happening because I R GAME I DO GAME THINGS. It's fun there but it's not a good addition to MWO. It changes too much about the current game here that makes it good.

theres a dropship in orbit. it drops your next mech into combat. you ejected from your last one, your pod flies to where the new mech drops. No handwavium required. Especially in a game where you cant get killed when your cockpit (and escape pot) get destroyed

[Tarman]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 25 January 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

theres a dropship in orbit. it drops your next mech into combat. you ejected from your last one, your pod flies to where the new mech drops. No handwavium required. Especially in a game where you cant get killed when your cockpit (and escape pot) get destroyed

Four of them, sure; that's a lot in universe and per-match but not insane. An entire planetary system's worth till the match ends is too much though, it's not a hammerspace cargo ship or an autofactory.

[Thirdstar]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 25 January 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

theres a dropship in orbit. it drops your next mech into combat. you ejected from your last one, your pod flies to where the new mech drops. No handwavium required. Especially in a game where you cant get killed when your cockpit (and escape pot) get destroyed

Indeed, if you're going to take refuge in realism. I'd ask how the pilot and his mech are reconstituted in the ether and deposited back into the mechlab after every match? Where are all these Atlases coming from? They're supposed to be bloody rare.

[smokefield]

from my experience in multiplayer games the majority of those who were losing badly were exactly those were were crying on the forums about respawn. i dont know how many remember the respawn kill from quake 2...we had specialized ppl doing that. of course you will say it is a generalization and generalizations are not good...yes, exceptions exists, no doubt, and I may be wrong and in this MWO community we have only mature ppl who..but somehow I don't think it is the case...

[Kylere]

Respawns are the last resort of the pathetic, this is NOT Call of Duty, Medal of Honor or any other silly console type games.

[Joseph Mallan]

Thirdstar, on 25 January 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

NOOOOOOOOOO!!! Respawn touched me inappropriately.

Everyone who plays respawns is a poopy head, no skill moron who want to ruin my game experience and eat my dog.

Although I chuckled at the sarcasm, as much complaining as I read in the forum about being handed to, can you imagine the out cry of not just being killed once but 3-4 times by the same opponents thanks to respawn.

[Thirdstar]

smokefield, on 25 January 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

from my experience in multiplayer games the majority of those who were losing badly were exactly those were were crying on the forums about respawn. i dont know how many remember the respawn kill from quake 2...we had specialized ppl doing that. of course you will say it is a generalization and generalizations are not good...yes, exceptions exists, no doubt, and I may be wrong and in this MWO community we have only mature ppl who..but somehow I don't think it is the case...

I'm sorry I have no idea what you're saying. Respawn kill? Do you mean Telefragging? What does that have to do with MWO? Maybe you meant spawn camping?

Joseph Mallan, on 25 January 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

Although I chuckled at the sarcasm, as much complaining as I read in the forum about being handed to, can you imagine the out cry of not just being killed once but 3-4 times by the same opponents thanks to respawn.

There's no such thing as a gaming forum that doesn't complain and I've been on scores. if there is, I haven't seen it yet.

Edited by Thirdstar, 25 January 2013 - 09:05 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Thirdstar, on 25 January 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Indeed, if you're going to take refuge in realism. I'd ask how the pilot and his mech are reconstituted in the ether and deposited back into the mechlab after every match? Where are all these Atlases coming from? They're supposed to be bloody rare.

Rebuilding the one I got shot up on the battlefield? There is no "time limit" between drops is there? Could be a day could be a year.

[Thirdstar]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 January 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Rebuilding the one I got shot up on the battlefield? There is no "time limit" between drops is there? Could be a day could be a year.

Who's doing the rebuilding? You're dead.

[Joseph Mallan]

Thirdstar, on 25 January 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

There's no such thing as a gaming forum that doesn't complain and I've been on scores. if there is, I haven't seen it yet.

Oh I agree the crying is legendary. I have shook my head as I watched it grow over the last decade.

Thirdstar, on 25 January 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

Who's doing the rebuilding? You're dead.

The techs obviously! I'm just a pilot I don't do the repairs also!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 25 January 2013 - 09:08 AM.

[TheMadTypist]

There can't be respawns because everything from current incarnation of the game is designed around a "one and done" philosophy. Everything from individual mechs' time-to-kill to map layouts is tailored to provide a specific experience in a set time period. Adding respawns at this late date would require a massive reworking of major game mechanics to still provide the kind of experience that the Devs are trying to create. The eventual inclusion of Dropship mode has been pushed back again and again, because even limited respawns represent a major undertaking to set up and balance in the current environment.

It isn't about making the game easier or harder, it's about the intended experience that the game is supposed to convey. That isn't one that respawns would support under the current conditions, and the effort required to bring them in is better spent working on the backlog of features and content they need to create a cohesive product.

[Draven Knightfall]

This game, this whole genre, caters to an fairly exclusive audience, to be honest. It's always been a patient, plodding, methodical game where you have to weigh the risks and rewards of almost every action in a constant basis. That's the draw. It's a wargame, made to represent a possible futuristic version of battle. You die, you are dead. Your mech loses a weapon, you don't fire it. Your mech is destroyed, it's not coming back. They had to make a few allowances for respawns going match to match, but that is just to give a certain viability to MMO play. It doesn't, and shouldn't, translate to in game play.

Adding in respawns changes that in a very fundamental game, and a lot of the draw. It certainly does draw those in who aren't satisfied with that system and enjoy a more loose risk/reward scheme and less permanent consequences, but that isn't what this genre has ever been about. Dropships and larger battles do fit the genre well, and are already very well explained and accepted, so that compromise I'm failry certain will be eventually adapted to the game itself. But even in that instance, there is a risk of running out of mechs, dying off, and being sidelined. You still have to weigh the risks of tagging a heavy lance vs the reward of holding a lock for your missle boats long enough to get a volley off before running away. But the risk is permanent, you go down, you don't come back. You get spotted by that lance and eat a few PPC's and Lasers to the face, you come back in your own assault, but the entire dynamic of the match has changed. You can't turtle a point with infinate respawns until an arbitrary timer is achieved. That doesn't fit this genre or this game, and that's why a pure respawn match shouldn't be adapted for this game. That is also why you see people saying things like "go play those games" because quite frankly, that's not what this game has ever been about. Every decision comes with an inherent risk, and permanent death is a major part of it. Removing that removes a fundamental part of this game and why the fans that have stuck with it for so many years.

It doesn't encompass a huge volume of people, but I'm pretty sure the creators of this endeavor knew that. It never has. The fans it has retained are fanatical, however. Adapting a mode that doesn't really fit the genre will alienate a great deal of fanatical fans and will create a FOTM FPS that won't last to the end of the clan wars, all to appease the fewer that would come in and leave as the next FOTM is launched. It's just not good for the longevity of the game.