36 replies to this topic

[MysticLink]

Apparently this is a complicated weapon.

I only use it on my Atlas D.

I have 2 ultra Ac 5s shooting with one click. Is it more efficient (by avoiding being blocked) to shoot them separately with different clicks (button 1 and 2)...after one another?

I seem to being doing al right with it as it is (did 1081 damage today) with having them on a single button and just holding.

But anything to make me a better player, I wanna know.

Someone explain to me this complicated weapon I don't understand.

ps - Forgive me for my noobness.

Edited by MysticLink, 27 January 2013 - 01:58 PM.

[Gigastrike]

The ultra AC/5 is unique in that if you fire it when it's reloading, it will fire once again. While this nearly doubles your dps, it's risky since it has a 25% chance of jamming the weapon for 3 seconds (the chance gets higher if you double fire multiple times in a row). Since it's so inconsistent when double firing, I find that you're better off firing single shots (click the button once every 1.1 seconds), unless you really need the burst damage.

I know there are some people who came up with optimal firing patterns for 3 U-AC/5s, but I'm not sure if just 2 would have enough redundancy for it to apply.

[p00k]

Gigastrike, on 27 January 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

it's risky since it has a 25% chance of jamming the weapon for 3 seconds (the chance gets higher if you double fire multiple times in a row).

1) it jams for 5s, not 3
2) the chance doesn't get higher. it's always 25%. sure the chances of getting 2 doubleshots off become 0.75*0.75, and the chance of getting 3 off without jamming becomes 0.75*0.75*0.75, etc etc, but the actual chance per mouse click is always 25%

which, if you factor in a 25% jam chance and the 5second jam, the uac5 constantly being doubletapped has an average dps of ~4.25, vs 4.54 if you single shoot (but there's the chance to briefly lay down ~9dps in short stretches)

[Gigastrike]

p00k, on 27 January 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

1) it jams for 5s, not 3
2) the chance doesn't get higher. it's always 25%. sure the chances of getting 2 doubleshots off become 0.75*0.75, and the chance of getting 3 off without jamming becomes 0.75*0.75*0.75, etc etc, but the actual chance per mouse click is always 25%

which, if you factor in a 25% jam chance and the 5second jam, the uac5 constantly being doubletapped has an average dps of ~4.25, vs 4.54 if you single shoot (but there's the chance to briefly lay down ~9dps in short stretches)

Ok, I know PGI once went over how the jamming chance gets steadily greater. There was a whole thread made.

[shadevarr]

I set my dual uac/5 to chainfire (backspace) and I get 1 jam approximately every 10 rounds. ultras are not really meant to be a "hold down the fire button" weapon but the burst dps is there IF needed to finish off someone.

[MartianMonkey]

The jamming is why people are using macros to set it to fire on a delay so the chance of firing seems less.

[p00k]

Gigastrike, on 27 January 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

Ok, I know PGI once went over how the jamming chance gets steadily greater. There was a whole thread made.

it doesn't
your chance of getting more consecutive shots off without jamming goes down, but that doesn't mean the chance to jam with each attempt changes

it's like flipping a coin. your chance of getting heads is 50%, every single time (ignoring landing on the edge). your chance of getting heads on the 2nd coin flip is still 50%. on the 3rd coin flip is still 50%

however, your chance of getting all heads is 50% at the first flip, but only 25% by the 2nd flip, and 12.5% by the 3rd flip

similarly, your chance of doublefiring once without jamming is 75%. your chance to doublefire twice without jamming is 56.25%. your chance of doublefiring 3 times without jamming is 42.19%. your chance of doublefiring 4 times without a single jam is 31.64%. HOWEVER, at the fourth doubleshot attempt, the dice roll is still only a 25% chance to jam, 75% chance to not jam

[Haggle]

This is coming from someone who uses the dual/triple UAC/5 on every variant he can...

Don't use chain fire (where one fires after the other per click). Use linked fire where they go off simultaneously. Don't hold the button down, just fire a rhythm...click...click...click...click. You WILL jam. Just take it in stride and find cover.

You'll notice a few things: first, that if you fire them linked, you have a greater chance of all shots hitting the same place, and hence, more likely to destroy a particular spot. When they're chain fired, you're far more likely to spread your damage over multiple armor spots, taking more time to down a mech.

Second, If you're using UACs, don't think of yourself as an in your face brawler. Fire from cover until you jam, then get back under cover. This applies whether you're the AS7-D-DC or the Ilya Muromets.

Third, when it's really critical to fire a lot (like an Atlas is bearing down on you and there's no where to retreat), its okay to click faster to fire, but DO NOT hold the mouse button down, you'll jam fast.

Fourth, every once and a while (once or twice per drop on average, but sometimes you get lucky (the UAC is all about luck)), you'll get a lucky streak where you can easily fire 20 or 30 rounds in just a few seconds. It is SWEET to watch a fresh Atlas drop when this happens.

Fifth, the UACs, like all ACs, take practice. Learn to lead your target and to setup angles. ACs do not fire well while you're turning your feet. Better to head in a straight line perpendicular to your target then to try and out-turn them (as with light mechs circling you).

Sixth, use the IR view on all maps but Caustic (the 'H' key), at least when things are far away. Its very easy to snipe (and snipe well) with UACs. Don't forget to zoom ('Z').

Seventh, carry a lot of ammo. For the Atlas with dual UACs, I carry 8 tons of ammo (200 rounds). For the Ilya Muromets with triple UACs, I bring 9 nine. Occasionally, I run out of ammo, but I've gotten very good at shooting with the UACs.

Eight, learn to listen to your UACs. If you have dual/triple UACs, you can hear when one or more is jammed. Slow up your pace. UACs will jam more often when they fire at the exact same moment. The best situation to be in is when a previously jammed UAC unjams and starts firing a split-second after your other UACs...this is when it becomes very easy to rapid fire as in fourth, above.

The dual/triple UAC is my favorite weapon combination. I highly recommend it. It is not uncommon for me to get between 600 and 800 damage on my IM, and to break 1000 damage a round on my D-DC. UACs are not easy weapons, they take a fair amount of skill, but they can melt faces faster than you can power up your mech.

Edited by Haggle, 27 January 2013 - 11:15 PM.

[MysticLink]

Thanks for the help.

MartianMonkey, on 27 January 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

The jamming is why people are using macros to set it to fire on a delay so the chance of firing seems less.

Macros...how do I set one up? I knew how in WoW, but not in this game.

[OneEyed Jack]

He's not talking about in-game macros. He's referring to third-party software to set up a script that will alter the function of a button so that it it will tap at specific intervals. Some people use macro-capable input devices, such as certain gaming mouses or control pads, while others use a script program. Last I knew, there were some posts describing them in detail and even the scripts to use in them here in the guides board.

[Bombolotska]

So what is the best frequence or fire intervall to minimize the chance of jamming?

[Krazy Kat]

If you fire every 1.1 seconds you will never jam. But that would make it the same as an AC/5, no faster.

[Gevurah]

We space vikings merely swear at it profusely and smash the button until it begins firing again. Seems to work pretty well.

[Ravennus]

Krazy Kat, on 31 January 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

If you fire every 1.1 seconds you will never jam. But that would make it the same as an AC/5, no faster.

Actually, the AC5 has a 1.7 second cooldown.
So if you can fire soon after the 1.1 second mark, you should never jam and will definitely fire faster than a regular AC5.

However, there is currently a bug with the UAC5 where it sometimes double fires even though you only tap the button. This is why it sometimes seems that it can jam on the very first shot.


It is an amazing, but fickle weapon. Personally I don't mind the trade-off, but others do.
When the ***** has hit the fan, the two UAC5s on my Atlas have saved me more often than they have let me down.
Just be sure you have other backup weapons.

[BADWVLF]

the jam programmed in the ultra ac5 is ******** to begin with,,any technology this advanced in the 1st place will be well kept and fireing near perfect like the ma duce,give me a 10 round clip and a time out for reload if u want to,or bring the heat equation in,,but i want that gun to do its job when i need it ,,every time i ambush the enemy,,im lined up for a perfect shot on thier tail and they dont know im there,,the ultra jams,,what are u thinking,,im against ac20s and gauss rifles that are going to take me out in about 2 maybe 3 rounds and that gives me what 12 seconds,,and you programmers feel the need to give this gun a jam,,give me a break,no other gun in the game jams,,get rid of the jam,,asap, 10 round clip or heat is fine with me,but i need my weapon of choice reliable,,i run 2 ultras on my jag,the jam is just irratating,,change that to reloading another clip and id be alright with that,,jam,,my god it seem we have 1940s thinking with year 5000 technology here,veyron,,,

[LordBane]

1veyron1, on 17 July 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

the jam programmed in the ultra ac5 is ******** to begin with,,any technology this advanced in the 1st place will be well kept and fireing near perfect like the ma duce,give me a 10 round clip and a time out for reload if u want to,or bring the heat equation in,,but i want that gun to do its job when i need it ,,every time i ambush the enemy,,im lined up for a perfect shot on thier tail and they dont know im there,,the ultra jams,,what are u thinking,,im against ac20s and gauss rifles that are going to take me out in about 2 maybe 3 rounds and that gives me what 12 seconds,,and you programmers feel the need to give this gun a jam,,give me a break,no other gun in the game jams,,get rid of the jam,,asap, 10 round clip or heat is fine with me,but i need my weapon of choice reliable,,i run 2 ultras on my jag,the jam is just irratating,,change that to reloading another clip and id be alright with that,,jam,,my god it seem we have 1940s thinking with year 5000 technology here,veyron,,,

Use the regular AC5 then. Sorry but that's just how the UACs all are. It's part of battletech lore. They jam period.

[Flak Kannon]

If your capable of a 1081 point match, there isn't much more to say.

I like to think I'm one of the biggest UAC5 advocates on the forums.

Only one thing I'd say. Fire dual shots and learn to time the recycle, and continue every 1.1 seconds to send out a 10 point cockpit shaking damage. And situationally, use the uac5's best attribute, it's double fire. If you get both in sync double firing you will wreck stuff. Just try to only use it when there is little threat, or conversely, when it is life and death.


Edit: just read what Haggle said above, gospel, every single word he said....he's right on target!

Edited by Flak Kannon, 17 July 2013 - 02:15 PM.

[Benjamin Davion]

Flak Kannon, on 17 July 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

If your capable of a 1081 point match, there isn't much more to say.

I like to think I'm one of the biggest UAC5 advocates on the forums.

Only one thing I'd say. Fire dual shots and learn to time the recycle, and continue every 1.1 seconds to send out a 10 point cockpit shaking damage. And situationally, use the uac5's best attribute, it's double fire. If you get both in sync double firing you will wreck stuff. Just try to only use it when there is little threat, or conversely, when it is life and death.


Edit: just read what Haggle said above, gospel, every single word he said....he's right on target!

Listen to Flak, the One True Prophet of the UAC5. He brought me back to the True Word of the Triple Ultra AC5 Muromets, and it was the best decision of my Mechwarrior life.

[evilC]

The UAC5 is best at sustained fire. For the 1 extra ton over an AC5 you get a considerable increase in fire rate plus the opportunity to double-shot, plus increased range and shot speed.

Unfortunately, using them in single shot chain fire mode is not easy without a macro, as holding the button down will double-shot them and incurring a chance of a jam.

I have written a macro that will let you use UACs (or any other weapon for that matter) more efficiently in chain fire mode (ie holding the button is single shot mode, with another button to toggle dual shot mode), the link is here. For dual UAC5 you want a fire rate of 560 (550 plus 10ms for a little slack to account for lag).

If you also tick "Limit fire rate" it will stop you clicking too fast by accident (or releasing and holding again too quick)
If you also bind a button to "Change Fire Rate", that button will double the speed of firing (uses UAC double shot).

I also heavily recommend pairing 2xUAC5s with 1xAC2. As the AC2 is a little more than twice the fire rate of the UACs, you can fire the AC2 twice per cycle and up the fire rate to 275ms. Keep a ratio of 3:1 UAC5:AC2 ammo and the counts are exactly even. This lets you put out a good constant stream of dakka without the heat problems associated with all AC2 builds. Ideally you will want a Jager for this.

Edited by evilC, 28 July 2013 - 05:19 PM.

[CarnifexMaximus]

I love the UAC/5, it is my bread and butter.

Don't chain fire it. Please. It's like poring beer into a wine glass. Never hold down the fire button, just tickle it a bit. Be prepared to duck out if you do get a jam.

I have pretty good luck with a one shot tap / pause / double tap / pause rhythm. You can either listen to the reload sound or look at the square weapons group icon by your crosshairs to go from red to yellow to help with timing.

I'm yet to actually try 4 of the on my jäger, it just seems like too much of an engine and armor sacrifice to make it happen. 3 seems to be the sweet spot. I'm looking forward to whatever mechs in the future that are capable of running 3 UAC/5s.