625 replies to this topic

[Gorthaur]

Redmond Spiderhammer, on 02 February 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

Its a good build that requires something from the pilot to remain effective. It comes with risks and trade offs in exchange for excellent damage capacity. Unless you engage at point blank range a good chunk of that 90 damage alpha will not hit or be spread across locations.

Yeah, this definitely isn't so much the "easy mode" build most people assume it is. All those SRMs cause a lot of heat, they can be hard to hit stuff with some matches (I have days where I misjudge the lead for SRMs all day and all night). And the ammo on these things doesn't last very long.

That being said, it can do some work in the right hands. I think my record was 6 kills and 900 damage in one. Mostly a lot of one-shots on people with heavy damage and XLs (gotta love killing stalkers/atlases with XLs).

Edited by Gorthaur, 02 February 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[Cybermech]

suppose getting instant killed by dual ac20 ain't a problem.
but something that has to get really close.... 130m and under is a major problem?

[Super Mono]

Ngamok, on 02 February 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

Play a Hunchback. I can hit stuff off my screen with one.

So you're panning your view to the extreme edge to sweep someone with a medium laser doing 2 damage while running blindly full speed across the map.

That's great, that's wonderful, I'm really proud of you.

I'd still rather be able to alpha all my weapons into someone behind me.

[Lugh]

I love ID'ing these guys and closing on them from the side, cleanly removing their head and motoring on.

[Corrado]

Irvine, on 02 February 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

People who say the torso twist is OP forget that the catapult has 0 degrees of lateral arm movement...play a cat before you b!tch about its vaunted OPness

not to mention the "shoot me please" cockpit.

[Lugh]

Cybermech, on 02 February 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

suppose getting instant killed by dual ac20 ain't a problem.
but something that has to get really close.... 130m and under is a major problem?

Yes it is when you can't do the following:

1) aim
2) move
3) do both at the same time

Most of the reason you see a lot of people 'brawling' is because their aim is atrocious at anything more than 270m

They are attempting to cover their weakness

[Dimento Graven]

Fenix0742, on 02 February 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

Wow, there's a lot of wrong here. 84kph is much faster than 62kph. And yeah, you can score 1000+ easy if you know the map.

Don't see where there's any proof that was an A1, and even if it is, I can link posts where other 'mechs have scored as high as that as well. It's not JUST the 'mech, otherwise we'd see those scores EVERY TIME an A1 happened to be present.

[Zekht]

Paul and the Catapult Defense Force will never allow their favourite mech to be nerfed, give up.

[Dimento Graven]

Zekht, on 02 February 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Paul and the Catapult Defense Force will never allow their favourite mech to be nerfed, give up.

Especially when there's no need for a nerf.

[Sifright]

Well i'm sure i've never seen an A-1 Smash the entire enemy team before....


Well it's not like that is commo-



That doesn't mean prove anythi




Yea A-1 isn't good at all.

terrible mech. Wouldn't drive again.

bro tip: you can tell its a catapult by the cockpit.

Edited by Sifright, 02 February 2013 - 12:40 PM.

[Ngamok]

Super Mono, on 02 February 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

So you're panning your view to the extreme edge to sweep someone with a medium laser doing 2 damage while running blindly full speed across the map.

That's great, that's wonderful, I'm really proud of you.

I'd still rather be able to alpha all my weapons into someone behind me.

4 medium lasers doing 5 damage each with great accuracy while maneuvering around the map. But hey, I don't have problems killing A1s and making sure they don't alpha me up close unless they come behind me.

Edited by Ngamok, 02 February 2013 - 12:45 PM.

[Sifright]

tempted to go play a quick few games just to nab screen shots of me rocking the entire enemy team over and over.

[Dimento Graven]

Sifright, on 02 February 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

Well i'm sure i've never seen an A-1 Smash the entire enemy team before....


Well it's not like that is commo-



That doesn't mean prove anythi




Yea A-1 isn't good at all.

terrible mech. Wouldn't drive again.

bro tip: you can tell its a catapult by the cockpit.

Those images not working for anyone else, or is it just me?

Oh, never mind, dude, JPG is your bandwidth friendly friend...

And... <sigh> I'll dig through the vids I have, I'll see if I can't put up one with the 8 kill Atlas, a 7 kill Cata, 7 kill Jenner, 6 kill Commando... Not sure I got them all, but, give me a few days, I'll see if I can't "prove" every build is OP...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 03 February 2013 - 12:34 AM.

[Caleb Lee]

The mech isn't broken or OP. While I do NOT like encountering it on the battlefield I also know it has major range limitations and can and do exploit them if possible. Combine that with the Catapults easy hit boxes and in the open it's dead meat.

The problem is that most of the maps are close range brawling maps which cater to the A1 SRM/SSRM build. Once the larger maps start showing up you'll see a trend away from them, probably back to more Gauss/PPC/LL builds. I don't expect LRMs while ECM is still in it's current OP state.

[Abstrusity]

The absolute fastest a catapult can move is 86.4, where the fastest a medium can move is 151.5.
Assuming a maximum range of 90m of an A1's SRMs, and acceleration to full throttle that takes the catapult approximately 1 second to reach and the cicada .5 second to reach...
The cicada is moving around 18m/s faster than the catapult, and to get out of his range while both are at full throttle, he needs 5 seconds of straight running if they are both going the same vector heading. Even rounding it down to 4 seconds, that's enough for a full alpha, which will royally **** up any Cicada's day.
Let's take the Cent-A(L) and all the Hunch variants.
25.75 m / s is its max velocity, that's 92.7 with speed tweak and a 260.
The catapult goes 24m/s. A difference of 1.75m/s, if both were at full throttle, it'd take about a minute to escape an A1. Call it fifty seconds or so.
The firepower a catapult can bear can keep anything in its sights for a full alpha and the only things that can legitimately escape an A1 out in the open are swerving lights and fast mediums.
Everything else is ****ed. For that reason, the A1 is far and away overpowered, and, due to its torso twist, able to bring almost any enemy to target, weapons ready.
Don't even get me started on AC/20 cats.
It's mathematically impossible to defeat in the open, its torso twist and relative mobility makes it even more dangerous in close quarters, the bigger engines it can take allow you to turn to deflect weapons from its cockpit.
The only way to defeat a catapult A1 with equal skill in both pilots is to have superb aim from afar, but then, assuming equal skill, you'd also have to ask the question: Would YOU even go out into the open where the enemy team is lrm boating or PPC/Gauss sniping?

[sC4r]

another thread of "cry me a river coz of catapult"

so what... you can put up 1337+ dmg with it and still its not op
i can do the same with my DDC atlas, could do with 2x pracht, k2 cata(i sold them), seen other peeps in stalkers or LRM boats dishing some high dmg even with ecm around and i ve even seen even lights -> comm, jenner, raven to deal 1000+ dmg

its fine... to most cats just blow off the ears and they will be sad or you can just smash the cocpit
and if an cat can do such a dmg either the other team sucked or the cat pilot was damn good and still the other team sucked

[Noth]

Abstrusity, on 03 February 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

The absolute fastest a catapult can move is 86.4, where the fastest a medium can move is 151.5.
Assuming a maximum range of 90m of an A1's SRMs, and acceleration to full throttle that takes the catapult approximately 1 second to reach and the cicada .5 second to reach...
The cicada is moving around 18m/s faster than the catapult, and to get out of his range while both are at full throttle, he needs 5 seconds of straight running if they are both going the same vector heading. Even rounding it down to 4 seconds, that's enough for a full alpha, which will royally **** up any Cicada's day.
Let's take the Cent-A(L) and all the Hunch variants.
25.75 m / s is its max velocity, that's 92.7 with speed tweak and a 260.
The catapult goes 24m/s. A difference of 1.75m/s, if both were at full throttle, it'd take about a minute to escape an A1. Call it fifty seconds or so.
The firepower a catapult can bear can keep anything in its sights for a full alpha and the only things that can legitimately escape an A1 out in the open are swerving lights and fast mediums.
Everything else is ****ed. For that reason, the A1 is far and away overpowered, and, due to its torso twist, able to bring almost any enemy to target, weapons ready.
Don't even get me started on AC/20 cats.
It's mathematically impossible to defeat in the open, its torso twist and relative mobility makes it even more dangerous in close quarters, the bigger engines it can take allow you to turn to deflect weapons from its cockpit.
The only way to defeat a catapult A1 with equal skill in both pilots is to have superb aim from afar, but then, assuming equal skill, you'd also have to ask the question: Would YOU even go out into the open where the enemy team is lrm boating or PPC/Gauss sniping?

Lol. I'm far from a good pilot yet I can beat SRM cats by playing smart. You don't have to close on them even if they are in buildings. You don't have to expose yourself to LRM fire (which is easily dodged anyways), you don't even need to be that great of a shot due to the size of the ears and the size of the cockpit. They are scary, but easily abused if you know what to do.

[Sifright]

you guys are ridic.

I'm an A1 pilot there is boat loads of cover on every map except caustic.

I will come up on your blind side whilst you are engaging some one else.

You die when I do that.

the A1 is op fact.


Noth any one using LRMS on the A-1 Catapult is doing it wrong.

Edited by Sifright, 03 February 2013 - 01:41 AM.

[Abstrusity]

sC4r, on 03 February 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

another thread of "cry me a river coz of catapult"

so what... you can put up 1337+ dmg with it and still its not op
i can do the same with my DDC atlas, could do with 2x pracht, k2 cata(i sold them), seen other peeps in stalkers or LRM boats dishing some high dmg even with ecm around and i ve even seen even lights -> comm, jenner, raven to deal 1000+ dmg

its fine... to most cats just blow off the ears and they will be sad or you can just smash the cocpit
and if an cat can do such a dmg either the other team sucked or the cat pilot was damn good and still the other team sucked

That's not quite how it works. I'm sorry. It's time to stop posting.
At times, you can't help but get close. A skilled A1 pilot can rip anything to shreds with equal skill in a brawl scenario.
The things that CAN run from it only need to take an alpha to die.
The metagame on most maps has shifted to sniping again, LRMs and gauss/ppc, simply because the A1 outmatches everything else.
If your arms are getting shot off, you were in a bad position and needed to play better.
If you get cockpitted and it wasn't a lucky shot, you need to use your torso twist better.
If you stumble across an A1(or AC/20 cat)and die instantly with no chance of recovery because he didn't show himself until it was too late, there is nothing you can do about it.
Simply put, if the metagame switches and causes the obsolescence of most mechs, due to a plurality of variants, then you have a balance problem. Lights were fixed due to better movement code.
Now, I don't want to nerf the firepower of either catapult. It's the price we pay to be able to run silly things like AC/20 Ravens.
I do think its torso twist needs to be reduced, though. 100 base instead of 140 would be a little too much.
The way torso twist SPEED works is mainly based in the engine you use, then by tonnage, although it shouldn't be hard to add a particular line in the xml file to override a default.

[Sifright]

Dimento Graven, on 03 February 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

Those images not working for anyone else, or is it just me?

Oh, never mind, dude, JPG is your bandwidth friendly friend...

And... <sigh> I'll dig through the vids I have, I'll see if I can't put up one with the 8 kill Atlas, a 7 kill Cata, 7 kill Jenner, 6 kill Commando... Not sure I got them all, but, give me a few days, I'll see if I can't "prove" every build is OP...

tell me the people who pulled that off were they doing it every other match as long as the other team didn't have *insert op build*

if i don't fight against another srmcat I murder the entire other team.

literally the only thing that worries me is another srm cat in my A1 otherwise 1 on 1 I will kill every other mech in the game.

Even the stalker thanks to its hideous mobilty and lack of torso twist the A1 SRMcat will murder it