23 replies to this topic

[Gwydion Ward]

ok.. Im starting to get really frustrated with this game.

No-mater what mech's i use, it seems as if i never do anything over 180 damage per match. The 1 and only time i have is a moment ago when i striped all the weapons off my Jagger and crammed 2x Gauss Rifles on it (yea, i had to resort to the biggest, long-range, guns in the game to do more than 200 damage....). Then i managed to do 350 before dying. Not only am i seemingly doing 0 damage (yea i do close to 200 per fight... but when seeing others doing 500+.. it makes it seem as if im doing nothing), But im also getting completely destroyed in what seems like 'seconds', when my apponent(s) seem to take almost no damage at all.

And in every instance its my Center torso that drops, no other armor gets hit. its ALWAYS the center torso.

To try to counter this ive started stripping armor from every other location and filling up the Center. BUT, i run into a problem. I constantly get a 'limit reached' message.. Even when the center torso shows 50/88 or, 35/60 or such.

So.. not only am i doing crap damage, but i also cant even add as much armor to my mech as the people im trying to kill are (as i NEVER seem to get past their center armor, yet they always have no trouble getting past mine).

Am i missing something here?

I mean, i dont mind getting destroyed, its part of the game. But at the moment, it feels as if i have absolutely 0 chance of EVER winning even a single 1v1 fight. And THAT is frustrating.

[Eggs Mayhem]

Whenever there is a max armor value on torso components, the value is the sum of both front and rear armor on that component. For example, a hunchback can have 64 armor on its CT, so the sum of its rear CT and front CT armor cannot exceed 64, so something like 50 in the front and 14 in the rear would be just fine.

As far as helping you outside the mechlab, it's hard to give you specific advice without knowing what sort of mechs you're piloting. Care to share?

[Xenon Codex]

Sounds like your armor distribution may be a bit off. Post your build (mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab ) and maybe we can give you some pointers.

[Cubivorre]

Try twisting your torso when you're taking laser fire. It will spread the damage about your mech and ensure you last a lot longer.

For when you're facing the ballistic or ppc weapon enemy, use your arms to shield your torso in between attacks and only face the target for delivering your own attack.

Edited by Cubivorre, 29 March 2013 - 08:59 AM.

[Ratnix]

Really it depends on what mech you are running as to how you can do more damage.

I like my HBK's with 250-260 engines and then using constant movement and cover to take a shot and duck behind cover and circle around and do it again.

If in an area where there is little to no cover then I tend to stay behind the lines of the heavies and assaults contunaully moving and popping shots off after cooldown.

Are you just having trouble hitting stuff? If so, have you slowed down your mouse speed? This helps greatly with being able to actually stay on a mech while moving.

Getting destroyed quickly sounds like you are either running far enough away from your teammates to be a lone target for multiple mechs or you are wading right intothe front lines making yourself the easiest target in that engagement.

Really it is hard to say what you are actually doing that is causing you do die quickly and not do much damage without seeing you in combat.

[Koniving]

Go for a target's rear end whenever possible and stay there as long as possible.

Go for side torsos. They are weaker, they disappear quickly, may kill the enemy easily, and if not at least it'll remove 50% or more of their firepower, making them easier to kill.

Don't fall for the circle. Make the circle stop if it starts, or you won't have a chance.

Put armor to your front, and don't let them get around you.

It's important to have an engine fast enough to keep enemies in front of you. If you have to sacrifice too much speed to do that, your build isn't worth it because with a slower engine comes slower turning, slower torso twist, slow aiming, slower arm movement.

Three random instances of doing more than 500 per fight.

First, in less than 1 minute. Remember it starts from the first time I fired, so the additional minute of travel time doesn't count. 3 man team. Only one member near me, and he only arrived in time to steal my kill.


Factory default ("Trial") build of Hunchback 4H gets 691 damage. No pilot efficiencies. No modifications other than change of paint job. Default ammo placement. STD heat sinks. Nothing changed. Pugged.


5 members of the team in this 8 versus 8 premade match got over 500 damage. Ambush; action starts around 3 minutes in.


Perhaps something can be picked up from these.

Can't offer you specific advice for a Jager as I don't own one yet.

But as with any ballistic, lead ahead of fast enemies. Try to fight enemies who are moving in a straight line. If you have good ballistics, don't be afraid to ram close and pin the enemy in.

Edited by Koniving, 29 March 2013 - 09:15 AM.

[EgoSlayer]

Rhapsody Repine, on 29 March 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

<snip>

To try to counter this ive started stripping armor from every other location and filling up the Center. BUT, i run into a problem. I constantly get a 'limit reached' message.. Even when the center torso shows 50/88 or, 35/60 or such.

So.. not only am i doing crap damage, but i also cant even add as much armor to my mech as the people im trying to kill are (as i NEVER seem to get past their center armor, yet they always have no trouble getting past mine).

Am i missing something here?

I mean, i dont mind getting destroyed, its part of the game. But at the moment, it feels as if i have absolutely 0 chance of EVER winning even a single 1v1 fight. And THAT is frustrating.

You are putting way too much armor on your back sections. The armor limit for the torso sections is the total of the front and the rear, so a section that can do 88 total that is only allowing 50 in the front means that you have 38 on the back. This is effectively handicapping you because your enemies have about 25% more armor on the front you have to take off, and you're spotting them 20 points of damage to yourself.

Good rule of thumb for a starting point is 2:1 front vs rear and then go higher on the front as you get confident you are not getting hit in the back.

[Redshift2k5]

Center torso is always very easy to hit for every mech, you can counter this by turning your side towards the enemy when you are in between shots.

What mechs do you own? what builds do you use? you may be doing something fundamentally wrong with your build, or otherwise we can try to suggest improvements.

All mechs of a given weight have the same maximum armor. All jagermechs have the same maximum armor, which is the same as the Catapult. The Cataphract, being slightly heavier, has a slightly higher maximum armor (but only has 12 more max)

[Royalewithcheese]

What's your framerate? Low framerates can really make this game hard to play, and IMO the effect is larger than it would be in, for instance, something like Battlefield.

Also, yeah, if you post your build we can help you out. There might be aspects of your robot (an XL engine, or low armor on part of it) that makes it last shorter than it would otherwise, and we can give you general advice about armor ratios.

Finally, IMO Rule Zero of MWO is to stick with your team. This game has a harsh learning curve, and that can really help smooth it out. You can also hop on a teamspeak or mumble server - I don't personally do this, but a lot of people swear by it, especially when you're getting started. Maybe the No Guts No Galaxy one?

[CmdrPoopyPants]

There are a couple of "common missteps" most newer players make. A lot of people stand still on occasion, sometimes way too long, and often in fights figuring the attention is on other people. Don't stand still.. Depending on mech, sometimes you -never- stand still or you blow up fast.

Since you're seeing damage, you're clearly hitting at least some.. but check your stats in your profile ( http://mwomercs.com/...ats?type=weapon ) and see what your accuracy is with various weapons. If you're missing a lot, all I can really say is "get better", but I don't mean that in the mean way some people do.. more, I mean practice and keep at it, you'll do better over time.

Another common mistake is people rush into a fight against multiple enemies.. that's a sure death if you're alone. always stay with your group and focus fire.. let the enemy be the ones getting picked off one at a time to your side's mob.

Others have made some good points (twisting, etc).. try to follow that advice.

And the "limit reached" was touched on.. but it sounds like part of your initial problem was "soft mechs". Use the mech lab link provided above, and one of the first things I do when building my mechs is to "max armor" then fit.. I only reduce armor when I'm close to fitting something else I'd "like".. but I almost never drop more than a few points in any location to do it. Soft mechs, as you've seen, die much faster.

[Gwydion Ward]

EmperorMyrf, on 29 March 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

Whenever there is a max armor value on torso components, the value is the sum of both front and rear armor on that component. For example, a hunchback can have 64 armor on its CT, so the sum of its rear CT and front CT armor cannot exceed 64, so something like 50 in the front and 14 in the rear would be just fine.

I did not know that... though makes sense now that i think of it. Guessing seeing 2 separate slots made me figure they were 'separate' completely.

Quote

As far as helping you outside the mechlab, it's hard to give you specific advice without knowing what sort of mechs you're piloting. Care to share?

DEATH'S KNELL

HBK-4G
*note* both Arm armors on this one ARE at 32, i have the founders mech, so i was able to fill both up, but the website isnt letting me.

JM6-DD

ILYA MUROMETS

*quick edit*

On the twisting, ive done that sometimes.. but dosnt seem to help as by the time i start turning, 1/2 or more of the center armor is already gone *shrugs*

And no. i don't wade into the fights and try to fight solo =) i generally try to stick with the team. But again, i always seem to drop my center no-mater what mech im using, within seconds... yet it takes me almost 3x as long to take away a enimy's center.

Ive even taken to targeting arms and such, but still, my center drops before i can even take out an arm/leg/torso.

Edited by Rhapsody Repine, 29 March 2013 - 09:35 AM.

[Gwydion Ward]

CmdrPoopyPants, on 29 March 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

Since you're seeing damage, you're clearly hitting at least some.. but check your stats in your profile ( http://mwomercs.com/...ats?type=weapon ) and see what your accuracy is with various weapons. If you're missing a lot, all I can really say is "get better", but I don't mean that in the mean way some people do.. more, I mean practice and keep at it, you'll do better over time.

MEDIUM LASER 1 60 54 90.00% 00:06:52 161
LRM 20 1 60 30 50.00% 00:04:49 27
ER LARGE LASER 1 26 15 57.69% 00:04:49 83
MED PULSE LASER 4 22 15 68.18% 00:13:42 64
ANTI-MISSILE SYSTEM 1 0 0 0.00% 00:04:49 0
AC/2 2 100 54 54.00% 00:05:28 123
GAUSS RIFLE 2 37 27 72.97% 00:08:14 420
ULTRA AC/5 2 43 24 55.81% 00:05:28 127
LRM 15 1 60 0 0.00% 00:06:52 0
NARC 1 11 1 9.09% 00:06:52 0
=) Im not terrible on accuracy. Though my LRM's are crappy (mainly cause im still learning when to fire them so they wont hit a hill/building). And i have no idea what the NARC is. It was on a trial mech and shot it at someone just to see what it did lol.

Edited by Rhapsody Repine, 29 March 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[Royalewithcheese]

The thing that really jumped out at me about the Jagermech is that the armor is really low. I'd advise ditching the Ferro, switching to Endo (Endo always saves you more tons, and Ferro is mostly useful for when you've put on Endo and still want to trade crit slots for tons) swapping the medium pulses for mediums (half the tonnage) and putting on more armor and ammo. You also don't need CASE for that Gauss ammo - the Gauss rifle explodes, but the ammo doesn't. Here's my take on a Jagermech build that tries to stay true to the spirit of yours:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...67dfa84c924ce62

EDIT: I forgot to throw on Double Heatsinks, but you basically always want those.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 29 March 2013 - 09:45 AM.

[CmdrPoopyPants]

Couple things.. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9726a508e286e84 is how I'd run that DK.. double the damage output, faster, and 57% efficient on heat means lots of firing.. unless you're running with a premade, that tag is only marginally useful (unless you want to get spot assits which may be hit and miss in pugs).. and the flamers never tickled my fancy.. no damage, really.. and with being so fragine in a commando, you don't want to be that close for long enough for it to do any good.

THen with the JM6, you have case with an XL engine.. total waste of tonnage since case only stops damage from going to the CT, but you still lose the side torso.. and your XL engine with it. I've not run the JM6's yet, so I can't offer more advice, other than saying the pulse lasers run hotter than regular lasers, so you might want to swap them out..

[Gwydion Ward]

Royalewithcheese, on 29 March 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

The thing that really jumped out at me about the Jagermech is that the armor is really low. I'd advise ditching the Ferro, switching to Endo (Endo always saves you more tons, and Ferro is mostly useful for when you've put on Endo and still want to trade crit slots for tons) swapping the medium pulses for mediums (half the tonnage) and putting on more armor and ammo. You also don't need CASE for that Gauss ammo - the Gauss rifle explodes, but the ammo doesn't. Here's my take on a Jagermech build that tries to stay true to the spirit of yours:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...67dfa84c924ce62

Yea i just got the Jagger. Thats why its setup is a bit wonky, i threw the Causes on it just as a 'last-ditch' effort to actually 'do' damage in a fight.

[Gwydion Ward]

CmdrPoopyPants, on 29 March 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Couple things.. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9726a508e286e84 is how I'd run that DK.. double the damage output, faster, and 57% efficient on heat means lots of firing.. unless you're running with a premade, that tag is only marginally useful (unless you want to get spot assits which may be hit and miss in pugs).. and the flamers never tickled my fancy.. no damage, really.. and with being so fragine in a commando, you don't want to be that close for long enough for it to do any good.

The flamer actually comes in handy when i manage to sneak up on a laser-boat. Keeps them from cooling down. Ive actually managed to 100% lock-down Hunchbacks and Awesome's doing that. As for the Tagger, i sorta made my commando more of a 'support' mech. He lets others do most of the damage while making a pest out of himself.

Quote

THen with the JM6, you have case with an XL engine.. total waste of tonnage since case only stops damage from going to the CT, but you still lose the side torso.. and your XL engine with it. I've not run the JM6's yet, so I can't offer more advice, other than saying the pulse lasers run hotter than regular lasers, so you might want to swap them out..

Yea, didnt know about Gause ammo till just a moment ago =) that was mainly thrown together just to see if it was even possible for me to do more than 200 damage XD

[Eggs Mayhem]

With your HBK try to rotate as much as possible, even when no one is firing at you. My basic firing pattern for my HBK is: fire, twist 360 clockwise, fire, twist 360 counterclockwise, repeat. While you're spinning around like that, your opponents will have a very difficult time trying to single out your CT or in this case your RT.

You can do something similar with your JM6, but it moves a little slow to be doing full spins. Fire, then twist/move away and set up for another shot. The only time anyone will be able to get a bead on you is when you're lining up your own shots.

Your CTF is going to be more difficult as far as not taking frontal damage, AC/5s require constant attention in order to use right. The way I typically engage with AC/5s is to not focus on anyone that's already facing me. If an enemy is trying to fire at a buddy, open up on him until you get his attention then move behind cover and find another target.

Your 2 heavies have very broad profiles so are a bit easier to land shots on, so you gotta stay mobile while you're shooting.

[Koniving]

I agree with them, the Jagermech's armor in a lot of parts is lower than even a Spider would carry. It's no wonder it's not doing so good.

[JoeyFTW]

I think it's important to remember not to put an undue amount of emphasis on the raw amount of damage you deal in a match as opposed to other factors. When you drop into a match, your two primary goals are to (1) have fun, and (2) make lots and lots of C-bills. I'm not a great player by any stretch, but as long as I make about 100k C-bills and didn't embarrass myself with my playing during a match, I consider it a success.

Now, your raw damage score doesn't affect the amount of C-bills you make as much as you might think, and definitely not as much as things like kill assists and even spot targets. And, really, your raw damage score doesn't necessarily have much to do with kills, either: it's possible, with good aiming and good situational awareness, to do relatively little damage and still core a mech. Conversely, it's possible to do lots and lots of damage and have little real impact on the match, if you spread your damage out too thinly among enemy mech's components.

What all this means is that you should (as always) stick with your group and the damage you do will turn into kill assists, and don't try to brawl if your mech isn't a brawler. If you do that, you'll only die faster than you can contribute to your team.

[LegoPirate]

where you place your damage is far far more important to how much you do.

i average about 300 damage in my JR7-F. but i average a 3.2 KD 2 kills per game with a 2.0 win loss. why? because 80% of my damage goes into the rear ct of the enemy. it takes 2-3 alphas to core just about any mech from behind with 6 medium lasers. and while i only did 60-90 damage, i destroyed a mech with just that. now you cant well sneak up behind everyone in a jagermech, but if you focus more on hitting targets in the ct, youll get more kills and youll win more often, since you take enemies out of the fight faster. doing 1000 damage going 0 kills 6 assists is fine and dandy, but it also means youre wasting large amounts of firepower on arms and torsos that dont matter. that being said, taking out an already weak torso is a good way to disarm an enemy, especially if the ct is well armored still.

oh, and know your enemies. if you see a dragon with a weak torso, try to hit that because pretty much every dragon runs an XL. same with lots of phracts and just about any light mech.