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Psr And Group Queue


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#1 Paul Inouye

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 01:10 PM

Hey Folks,

Yes, we have noticed the increase in match making times but it is a known issue that would arise from the new PSR system. One thing that drives this is that we increased the amount of time that the match maker sits there looking for an exact Tier match. This means the 'release valves' from the previous systems aren't kicking in as soon as they used to.

Previously, the release on skill matching would kick in at 45 seconds. With PSR this was increased to 60 seconds. This is working well in terms of match quality for the solo queue but is causing rather long wait times for the group queue.

That being said, we have reduced the amount of time the match maker looks for exact matches in the group queue to 30 seconds. It's not going to make the wait times drastically shorter but it should help noticeably overall.

This was applied yesterday afternoon. Hopefully across the weekend we can get more data as to how this affected the group queue wait times.

#2 BattleBunny

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 02:03 PM

I'm not sure how this would effect 10+ minutes waits. It looks like you have reduced the searchtime by 15 seconds? Or does it release a valve every 30 seconds?

I have no idea how it all works, All i know is that my search times in the group queue, especially during EU afternoons are sometimes 10+ minutes, with one topping at 19 minutes. I hope you all agree that is not acceptable.

It also seems the smaller the group, the longer the wait.

#3 Davers

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 02:14 PM

View PostBattleBunny, on 21 August 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

I'm not sure how this would effect 10+ minutes waits. It looks like you have reduced the searchtime by 15 seconds? Or does it release a valve every 30 seconds?

I have no idea how it all works, All i know is that my search times in the group queue, especially during EU afternoons are sometimes 10+ minutes, with one topping at 19 minutes. I hope you all agree that is not acceptable.

It also seems the smaller the group, the longer the wait.

Well, the larger the group the less it has to fill, right?

#4 YUyahoo

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 02:27 PM

Paul, you say in this new system "we increased the amount of time that the match maker sits there looking for an exact Tier match" meaning matches should be 'closer'...so why does there seem to be just as many stomps/one sided games (if not more) than there used to be? If this new system is more precise, how do I get on teams the new system thinks will be a fair fight for me instead of the teams I keep getting? For some I am sure they are getting better matches, but for me and wherever I happen to fall in this new system (which I am sure is in the lower/est tier) it is the same 'getting stomped game after game after game' (despite how well or poorly I play that game) as before. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind loosing close games or the occasional 'bad beat' but its very hard to improve (or "get good") if you keep getting bad team after bad team and are only winning an average of 2-3 games for every 9-10 played.

*sorry if this is in the wrong spot this has more to do with the new PSR in general than group que as I mostly only drop solo*

Edited by YUyahoo, 21 August 2015 - 02:45 PM.


#5 Davers

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 02:30 PM

View PostBattleBunny, on 21 August 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

I'm not sure how this would effect 10+ minutes waits. It looks like you have reduced the searchtime by 15 seconds? Or does it release a valve every 30 seconds?

I have no idea how it all works, All i know is that my search times in the group queue, especially during EU afternoons are sometimes 10+ minutes, with one topping at 19 minutes. I hope you all agree that is not acceptable.

It also seems the smaller the group, the longer the wait.

Wow, I had no idea the wait times were that bad on the other servers.

#6 BattleBunny

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 02:48 PM

I have all servers enabled.

#7 Felio

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 03:16 PM

Cap the group queue at 1 lance, like it used to be. Large groups have CW now.

#8 Sadist Cain

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 03:25 PM

View PostBattleBunny, on 21 August 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

I have all servers enabled.


That's pretty bonkers, even on EU only I don't see anything near 10 minutes.

#9 slide

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 04:04 PM

Don't forget that the current challenge is likely messing up queue times as people look for specific game modes to complete missing sections in the challenge. I had EU only and assault only selected for a while yesterday as I was chasing an extra day of premium. I was fully expecting longer wait times but it wasn't too bad (<5 mins mostly)

This will also likely be flushing people out of the group queue and into solo for the same reasons. Fewer players = longer wait times generally. 10 minute wait times would suck greatly though.

#10 SilentScreamer

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 04:28 PM

View PostYUyahoo, on 21 August 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Paul, you say in this new system &quot;we increased the amount of time that the match maker sits there looking for an exact Tier match&quot; meaning matches should be 'closer'...so why does there seem to be just as many stomps/one sided games (if not more) than there used to be?

*sorry if this is in the wrong spot this has more to do with the new PSR in general than group que as I mostly only drop solo*


Not to step on Paul's toes to answer you YUyahoo, but matching Tier pilots might work well on a team or they could end up getting stomped 0-12 because they refuse to communicate and coordinate.

My apologies for throwing a sports analogy in but....Think of it like a All-Star Basketball team. You have all the big name NBA Stars on your team. If the TEAM is not willing to work together, they will loose to "second string" players that are capable of working as a team. Generally, the more sucessful a player is, the less they are willing to sacrifice or compromise for the team. A common term is "ego-case."

I am just guessing, but I would say Bad teamwork results in more stomps than the matchmaker skill ratings.

#11 VoodooLou Kerensky

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 05:08 PM

Im the Worst Pilot in the game and I havent had to wait but at max 5 minutes, and Im Tier 6!

#12 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 05:24 PM

Is this why

http://mwomercs.com/...ng-good-teams/?

Cause I just went on an hour long losing streak to HHoD and 228 who HAVE to be WAY above my pay grade and Im having a hard time keeping the one friend I play with interested in the game.

#13 RaKa

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 05:30 PM

Just do this: Try to find an ideal match for say 2-3 minutes. If not, release all the valves and let the MM say "F**k it, you'll get whoever is in queue". Because waiting for long matches that last (at an average) 5-8 minutes. The ROI on time spent searching for matches now in group queue isn't worth it.

Edited by RaKa, 21 August 2015 - 06:17 PM.


#14 Felio

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 07:58 PM

View PostRaKa, on 21 August 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

Just do this: Try to find an ideal match for say 2-3 minutes. If not, release all the valves and let the MM say "F**k it, you'll get whoever is in queue". Because waiting for long matches that last (at an average) 5-8 minutes. The ROI on time spent searching for matches now in group queue isn't worth it.


Don't be so sure. You describe the old system, I think. When so very many of the matches are so very bad, eventually you get tired of it and don't even bother with that queue anymore. Which sends it into a downward spiral.

But you are right that waiting around for 10 minutes, even if it were for a well balanced match (which it wouldn't be), would be totally unacceptable and not sustainable. In this scenario, too, you have people jumping ship and making things worse.

The only solutions are to either radically and fundamentally change what the group queue is or to get a whole lot more players participating in it.

Is this release valve steady, like an actual valve that can incrementally start to open at 30 seconds, or is it more like a cork popping out of a bottle or a dam breaking, right at the 30-second mark?

#15 YUyahoo

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 10:28 PM

View PostSilentScreamer, on 21 August 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

Not to step on Paul's toes to answer you YUyahoo, but matching Tier pilots might work well on a team or they could end up getting stomped 0-12 because they refuse to communicate and coordinate.

My apologies for throwing a sports analogy in but....Think of it like a All-Star Basketball team. You have all the big name NBA Stars on your team. If the TEAM is not willing to work together, they will loose to "second string" players that are capable of working as a team. Generally, the more sucessful a player is, the less they are willing to sacrifice or compromise for the team. A common term is "ego-case."

I am just guessing, but I would say Bad teamwork results in more stomps than the matchmaker skill ratings.


I do get the analogy, really, and yes bad teamwork does factor into losses just as much as good teamwork factors into wins. this is just my opinion from the observations of many "bad beats" in the old ELO system and the current PSR system. I do not by any means believe I am assigned to the "all star" team in your analogy, quite the opposite I am pretty certain I am on the "second string" team almost every time (as I am basically a "second string" skill level player and I do not think my skill level is any higher than the other 11 people I randomly get assigned to every game). The problem lies in that the new PSR system (like the old ELO system) seems to think that the "second string" team I land on would be a fair fight for the "all star" team I tend to be matched up against when in reality it is not a fair fight far more often than it is. Perhaps the bigger issue is something like that I am on the cusp between tiers, so whenever I do get a good team/good game I get "bumped up" a tier and then have bad match after bad match until I land back in the lower tier and have another good team/good game that lands me back in the higher tier where I go back to getting stomped game after game. I don't expect that I would or should win most of the time (specially in solo/pug games) but if these match making systems are working "properly" my win/win loss ratio should be very close to 50/50 (say in the 45-55% range) for the 4000ish games I played in the old ELO system and just as close to 50% in all the games I have played in the PSR system (if for no other reason than 50% of the time I should be on the "all star" if the ELO/PSR system really does consider the "all star" teams to be a fair fight for me) but in reality my winning/good game/good team percentage seems to be closer to 30% than 50%. This creates a lot of frustration as games are less fun when most end 12-4 or less rather than 12-9/10/11 (and again I don't mind if I am on the loosing end of close games or if I have an occasional "bad beat" game) and it cascades into more time needed to level mechs (because exp rewards are 90-300 rather than 1000-4000) and lower cbill earnings/more time needed to purchase mechs, modules and other equipment/upgrades. It is hard to improve if most of the time the outcome of a game is pre-determined before the game even starts because "second stringers" keep going up against "all stars".

It may sound like it but this isn't a "whine/cry" post or a "PGI sucks" post but that is not my position at all...despite how this may read to most of you I actually do enjoy MWO and think PGI has made vast improvements over the past few months (and I have invested $100s in the game as I am a fan/supporter)...but there are still some issues and some things that (at least from my experiences) still aren't quite working as well as people/PGI may believe.

#16 Tarogato

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 10:57 PM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 21 August 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

Hey Folks,

Yes, we have noticed the increase in match making times but it is a known issue that would arise from the new PSR system. One thing that drives this is that we increased the amount of time that the match maker sits there looking for an exact Tier match. This means the 'release valves' from the previous systems aren't kicking in as soon as they used to.

Previously, the release on skill matching would kick in at 45 seconds. With PSR this was increased to 60 seconds. This is working well in terms of match quality for the solo queue but is causing rather long wait times for the group queue.

That being said, we have reduced the amount of time the match maker looks for exact matches in the group queue to 30 seconds. It's not going to make the wait times drastically shorter but it should help noticeably overall.

This was applied yesterday afternoon. Hopefully across the weekend we can get more data as to how this affected the group queue wait times.


If all queue times were 60 seconds, that would be amazing. But they aren't. Usually more than double that. (even before PSR I was used to 3-5 minute queues) Wednesday night during Oceanic primetime I was in a group that was in queue for 42 minutes. Not lying, not exaggerating. I actually checked the chat logs in TeamSpeak from the last thing I said before we entered queue and it was 42 minutes ago. Thankfully we're a talkative bunch, but holy cow. At least it was only one-time occurrence, but 10+ minute waits have been pretty common.

Edited by Tarogato, 21 August 2015 - 11:00 PM.


#17 Wing 0

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 11:24 PM

It seems to be a little better now but sill not anywhere close what most I guess had in regarding of wait times.

#18 BattleBunny

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 04:35 AM

https://www.reddit.c...and_wait_times/

this reddit thread also has lots of feedback on the search times

#19 Onimusha shin

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 06:17 PM

honestly, i think group queue doesn't have the prerequisite population to make for faster wait times. don't forget that in addition to PSR, it also has the 3/3/3/3 valve to manage.

#20 BattleBunny

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Posted 23 August 2015 - 05:18 AM

Honestly, I hope they get rid of both restrictions. I want to play the game. Not stare at the search wheel.

Do we really mind that much if both teams have 8 heavies?





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