43 replies to this topic

[FlareUKCS]

Because of the heavy handed moderation that locked my original post I am now forced into the awkward situation of needing to start another thread, which I do not enjoy doing as it helps to flood the forum with unwanted topics for the long time members.

I stated quiet clearly I needed the questions answered BEFORE I spend hours combing over all the information available, there is a metric sh*t tonne of information in that new players start here sticky.
I read the why do you want mechwarrior to got F2P and it doesnt answer my question... in fact it downright dodges the question at hand... that is why I felt compelled to ask the questions that I did.

Here the post tries to deal with the pay to win issue :

Now let's talk about Pay-To-Win, the red-headed step child (no offense to all the red heads, we really do love you).
There are those who will rumble about Pay-2-Win, which equates to the person with the biggest wallet winning. I'm not going to lie, some things can and will allow you to acquire items faster, or even instantly with real cash.
Foul! Foul! You said you can't buy a tactical advantage! That's a stick! That guy with the wallet is going to be able to buy the biggest, bad assed items in the game! He's going to kick my **** with his wallet.

and this is the answer...

Well here's some food for thought, maybe the biggest isn't always the best! To take a quote from an early MechWarrior® presentation ' This is not your father's MechWarrior®! One of our core pillars is Role Warfare and is designed to, well ' level the playing field ' another concept from our original design. We're doing away with the arms race and making BattleMechs of all shapes and sizes have a purpose and role on the battlefield. If you love scouting, grab that light mech, train and gear it up. Be that sneaky guy who relays critical information back to the rest of your lance. Maybe you're a commander type, who loves to multitask, directing fire support, air strikes, and multiple lances in a mech suitable to that role. If you play any of these roles well, and with skill, you will be rewarded.

It doesnt say the player with the wallet cant buy the best mechs and equipment while the none paying customer cannot have access to that stuff, it says you dont NEED that equipment to be a factor in the game.
It still leaves open the question of can I get the same gameplay influencing equipment and mechs without paying.


Seriously , if you want more customers , try not **** them off at the first bloody encounter.
Locking a polite and properly structured post that is not offensive or attemption to induce flame wars or baiting for trouble is heavy handed moderation...and them simply pointing them to a sticky that doesnt answer the question properly is just indicitive of not even reading the post properly and assuming its yet another rubbish post.
Now I am irritated, dammit.

[Garth Erlam]

I believe the thread was locked because we have a lot of 'Pay-to-win' threads. There was a time we had a good four at a time, in fact. If you do believe your thread was different from the ones you searched through, please PM me with how and I'll see what I can do.

[Bluey]

As a foreigner without a native English ,Moderators always backed me up ,patiently I had been warned when I did a mistake and in times when people tried to abuse me due to my lacking of native English, they actually cared made those people properly apologise from me.

I trust those guys in PGI if they lock something up they do cause of a proper reason.
If you dont want spend hours on wall of text, open your internal messenger in forums and ask someone active.
They will gladly answer you.

PGI is great and you need a

Edited by Bluey, 16 March 2012 - 10:42 AM.

[Adridos]

Quick fact: The person behind their F2P model is a troll. Seriously.

As for the advantages? I can't see any.
There are too little mechs to make some of them only for payers and there doesn't exist any kind of "super" amunition here.
And try to view it from their perspective, they're making a game that has to be approachable, yet still hold to a franchise which playerbase is around 35, while most of them grew up with it, with almost no AAA experience. They will do some mistakes teh first time they are making interviews, or presentations, but that's not because the game is bad, it's because they've never done such thing before.

Oh, and have you looked into different forum? They don't lock threads very often, rather move them.

Edited by Adridos, 16 March 2012 - 10:38 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Until we see the exact model there isn't much to argue about, right? And even then...as it is free to play noone loses anything.

[FlareUKCS]

The topic was : http://mwomercs.com/...ated-questions/

I did apologise for posting it but as I stated there is a lot of information to process, and the information I was curious about wasnt really answered in the post that was answering pay to win questions.

I just wanted to verify that a player could get the same ( none cosmetic ) mecha and modules as a paying customer could ( I understand a paying customer could get the stuff faster / easier ).
I do spend money in Free 2 Play games ( about £50 in League of Legends ) its just I dont like to be compelled to buy to compete, and I dont consider taking a different role to be a suitable altenative to not being able to get premium equipment.

That is all... the other questions were kindly answered by a member of the community.

[FlareUKCS]

Then I am satisfied.

It wasnt posted like that in the post detailing why they went F2P, and it seemed to evade the question... but as you say as ' Whatever you can buy in game (that isn't cosmetic) you can earn in game (though time and effort and c-bills) ' then its all well and good

The rest of the information I can happily invest time into looking up... just wanted verification on the actual workings of the model.

[Helmer]

FlareUKCS, on 16 March 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

The topic was : http://mwomercs.com/...ated-questions/

I did apologise for posting it but as I stated there is a lot of information to process, and the information I was curious about wasnt really answered in the post that was answering pay to win questions.

I just wanted to verify that a player could get the same ( none cosmetic ) mecha and modules as a paying customer could ( I understand a paying customer could get the stuff faster / easier ).
I do spend money in Free 2 Play games ( about £50 in League of Legends ) its just I dont like to be compelled to buy to compete, and I dont consider taking a different role to be a suitable altenative to not being able to get premium equipment.

That is all... the other questions were kindly answered by a member of the community.

And I answered all 3 questions.

Respectfully put, whats the issue?

With the amount of time you've spent writing to threads, you could have read most of the Dev blogs and gotten a better feel for the game.

You asked questions, they were answered. Now you can either spent your time reading or not. Sorry, but if you're not willing to spend the time looking, why should anyone spend the time spoon feeding you and point you to the exact Dev Blogs , Videos and posts?

Hope you stick around and enjoy the forums. We actually do have a GREAT community and moderators, hope you stick around and enjoy them!

Cheers.

Edited by Helmer, 16 March 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[devilkit]

Honestly I wouldn't mind ~some~ tactical advantage- albeit very minor for my money. (maybe weapons/tech only 5% better than free or so) but cosmetic items aren't my kind of thing entirely either. . . not saying its a bad thing but in the end I can only buy so many different types of paint schemes/decals/visually different variants of my beloved wolfhound, catapult, marauder, mad cat (Timber Wolf if you want to be serious about proper designation ) before I gt bored with that being the only content to buy. . .

do I think the game should have a heavy cost for pay to win? Not at all- but having a slight- advantage at a ~fair~ cost would keep the guys that like to optimize in the mech lab (I am one) occupied rather than in the cosmetic paint booth wondering if I should make a pink mech with kiss marks on it that fires custom purple and pink lasers just to taunt all the jaded hardcore mech heads as I blow them up

Edited for misspelling a mech name- HOW DARE I

Edited by devilkit, 16 March 2012 - 11:38 AM.

[cyberFluke]

devilkit, on 16 March 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

Honestly I wouldn't mind ~some~ tactical advantage- albeit very minor for my money. (maybe weapons/tech only 5% better than free or so) but cosmetic items aren't my kind of thing entirely either. . . not saying its a bad thing but in the end I can only buy so many different types of paint schemes/decals/visually different variants of my beloved wolfhound, catapult, marauder, mad cat (Timber Wolf if you want to be serious about proper designation ) before I gt bored with that being the only content to buy. . .

do I think the game should have a heavy cost for pay to win? Not at all- but having a slight- advantage at a ~fair~ cost would keep the guys that like to optimize in the mech lab (I am one) occupied rather than in the cosmetic paint booth wondering if I should make a pink mech with kiss marks on it that fires custom purple and pink lasers just to taunt all the jaded hardcore mech heads as I blow them up

Edited for misspelling a mech name- HOW DARE I

I couldn't disagree more. You're basically saying you *want* pay to win. 1% Paid for bonus is too much. No pay to win means no paid for number advantages.

Fluke

[Redshift2k5]

Your logic is flawed and your tone is combative at best. Truthfully the answer to many of your core questions can not be answered because such information has not been released. The details of the pay model are not available for anyone to read to give you the 'official' answer, only speculation.

Everyone is asked to read the official info available before starting threads. It's labelled 'new players start here (pretty please)', you passed it on the way in. Nobody is asking you to read the entire forum or trawl for every topic, just check the official info from the Dev blogs and Q&A, which honestly is not that long, before starting threads.

The question of, can the person with the biggest wallet get the best mech and win all the time?

Short answer is: There is no 'best mech' so nobody will ever be able to buy 'the best mech'.

We will have to wait and see what the actual pay model will be; anything on the forum about the pay model will be pure speculation. I speculate that the model will have every mech/item available for both c-bills(to be earned in-game for free) and for real cash. The only thing anyone will be able to buy is a 'shortcut', buy a mech with cash instead of grinding C-bills. The people with more money to spend will do less grinding, and thusly will have more mechs and items and things, but they will never have better mechs because any other player can buy the same mechs.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 16 March 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[Brakkyn]

It's bad form for an author to start a new thread in reference to a topic he posted that was previously locked; even if what you had to say was completely acceptable, as has been said, there have been many other threads [protesting] about the "pay-to-win" model that MWO is not using.

Not only that, but you worsened the situation by taking, as Redshift2k5 said, a combative tone.

[Kaemon]

My anger at new people not reading the new player start here post I spent a whole 20 min (20 mins! that's like 100 years in mayfly years) is turning the sky black with the bitter tears of all single ladies between the ages of 18-35 (I will now attempt to comfort them without my wife finding out).

If you would've read the 'why you want MW:O to be free' this is why - The why link would've sent you to this post by the lead developer -
http://mwomercs.com/...862#entry157862

Which I thought was a pretty good indication of their feelings on P2W.

But you didn't read my post.

Now I am irritated, dammit.

- Welcome to the Community! (now that you've been properly razzed!)

Edited by Kaemon, 16 March 2012 - 12:20 PM.

[CeeKay Boques]

I wish forums would have scan feature while you were typing...

*Bouncing PaperClip*

"Hi there! It looks like you're making a post about F2P... would you like me to redirect you to the following threads?"

*list*

[Kaemon]

Maybe someone should start a thread that keeps track of all the Dev references to the game not being P2W.

It would be informative to new players, or we could use it to light the torches on later if they change their minds.

[Redshift2k5]

They've said you can't buy your way to win, and I trust them to deliver on that, even though the specifics haven't been released (and the details of the pay model probably have not even been finalized yet anyway)

[Garth Erlam]

The idea is that 'real money' does two things:

• Gets you stuff faster.
  
• Gets you visual customization.

I will rail against any attempts to give (combat) 'bonuses' for money.

[Halfinax]

I find it doubly funny that OP reposted a deleted thread because "I couldn't find the answer" yet he posted it:

Quote

There are those who will rumble about Pay-2-Win, which equates to the person with the biggest wallet winning. I'm not going to lie, some things can and will allow you to acquire items faster, or even instantly with real cash.

Faster or instantly, as opposed to exclusively.

[CeeKay Boques]

Garth Erlam, on 16 March 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

The idea is that 'real money' does two things:

• Gets you stuff faster.
  
• Gets you visual customization.

I will rail against any attempts to give (combat) 'bonuses' for money.

I'd like to see you sell 8 "Different" versions of a balanced weapon that does the SAME thing, differently. I mean I guess if you want to sell me a Orange Tint for my lasers I'd take it, but if you gave me a laser that fired two short bursts instead of one long one I'd like that instead. I guess if you want to give it to us for free... and sell me colors that's cool... but I'd be more interested in function than vanity.

[FlareUKCS]

I thought the answer by the dev didnt rule out buying items to win , it just said you dont need to have those items to be a factor... like say a FPS with different classes, now say I can buy a soldier gear and get items that let me slaughter the foes, or get for free the medic gear and heal my team... I can be a medic and be a factor in the battle, but not a soldier as that is to be paid for... not good.

The answer didnt allay my concerns, till Aegis clarified the issue in an satisfactory answer, so now I can and will invest time reading the available information. I did do a cursory glance through some of the information...and it was that one issue that tripped me up.

As for the poster saying they wouldnt mind some advantage, I would mind...even if I paid for it as it basically say I lack skill but have the cash to fortify my inability to cope. I play MP games to pit my skills vs other players, not my wallet strength which is rather poor at the moment