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Fixing The Victor


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#1 XX Sulla XX

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 08:29 AM

Was thinking about this so thought I would start a thread. The Victor right now is a bit over rated because of how good it was in the past. And at some point it will need quirks to better balance it. So the question is what quirks would be best for game play. Lets start by looking at what it was designed to do.

"The Victor approaches the concept of support in an unorthodox way for a 'Mech of its weight class. While only possessing a ground speed of 64.8 km/h, the Victor achieves a high degree of mobility instead through the use of four jump jets, allowing it to jump up to one hundred and twenty meters. A Victor can therefore "support" friendly units by jumping directly into the fray and bringing its deadly close range arsenal to bear, an ability which can surprise inexperienced Mechwarriors and prove advantageous in mountainous terrain. One sacrifice made for this superb mobility is the 'Mech's relatively light armor of only eleven and a half tons, while the lack of proper anti-infantry capabilities is a minor problem.[5][4] " http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Victor

OK lets start by what I would not like to see. And that is quirks to make it back into a jump sniper or a hill humping sniper. I think many of us even the ones using the jump sniping under stand that it was not the best style to promote in the game. I believe PGI has it right now where the mid/short game is encouraged over all.

So from the above lets give Victors quirks related to mid/short play for most variants and to mobility and agility. The Victor is only 5 tons more than a Timber Wolf and it should have something like TW ability/mobility.

Add LR Torso and agility to all variants and fix missle tubes.
1. Left and right torso quirks. The torsos in Victors need a bit of a boost because of the added fire power in the game now. They are rather easy to hit at close to mid range play. So something like ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LT): 10.00 ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT): 10.00

2 Agility / mobility - TORSO TURN RATE (YAW): 10.00 % TORSO TURN RATE (PITCH): 10.00 % TURN RATE (LOW SPEED): 5.00 % TURN RATE (MED SPEED): 5.00 % TURN RATE (HIGH SPEED): 5.00 %

3. Fix missle tubes so you can fire 3 SRM 6s at the same time.

Change or add weapon quirks without getting carried away.

4. Weapon quirks.

VTR-9S - AC/20 VELOCITY: 7.50 % : AC/20 COOLDOWN: 7.50 % : <--new added-- ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LL): 10.00 ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RL): 10.00 BALLISTIC VELOCITY: 7.50 % MISSILE COOLDOWN: 7.50 %

VTR-9B UAC/5 COOLDOWN: 7.5 % <--new added--ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LL): 10.00 ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RL): 10.00 BALLISTIC VELOCITY: 7.50 % LASER DURATION: -7.50 %

The Dragon Slayer is a hard one. The natural inclination is to make it back into what it was. Something good at sniping. But I wonder if that is really the best for general game play. If you do not do PPC and Gauss what would you do instead that is different than the other variants?
DRAGON SLAYER

VTR-9K ENERGY COOLDOWN: 7.5% ENERGY RANGE: 7.5% ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -7.5%<--Added New-- Arm Yaw: 20 ° ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LL): 10.00 ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RL): 10.00 GAUSS RIFLE COOLDOWN: 7.5 % (<--upped to 7.5) BALLISTIC COOLDOWN: 7.5 % (<--upped to 7.5) LASER DURATION: -7.50 %

5. Jump jets. JJs were something that in the past helped the Victor a lot. But as they are now they are not help that much. So maybe an across the board boost to Victor JJs. If we can do it without bringing back hoards of Dragon Slayer jump snipers :) -- After thinking about it I would like to have a big JJ buff across all Victors. Then use weapon quirks to prevent or lesson jump sniping. (Updated)

(Updated) Also go ahead and give us the Victor Li variant.
  • Victor Li The custom Victor used by Tai-sho Li Dok To in the Fourth Succession War, this variant removed all the standard weapons and replaced them with a single LRM-15 mounted in the left torso and ten Medium Lasers carried in the 'Mech's right arm. Armor and movement profiles remained unchanged, but it carried a total of nineteen heat sinks. BV (2.0) = 1,625[18]

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 26 February 2015 - 10:31 PM.


#2 Gigastrike

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 09:23 AM

Upgrade hoverjets to jumpjets. Then we'll talk.

#3 Ultimax

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 09:29 AM

My list is pretty small.


1) Fix the JJ Turn rate issue that was abandoned due to technical limitations.

2) Increase LT & RT Internal Structure - the days of feeling fast & "tanky" in an XL Victor are quaint in a game full of 89kph Clan XL bearing overlords.

3) Normalize the Missile tubes so you don't have to play mechlab-jenga, and just increase them all to minimum 6 tube launchers.

4) Keep current (very minor) quirks.




That's it.


Do that, let it play out for a while, then see if it needs a tweak.

#4 xe N on

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 09:31 AM

Some days ago I killed a Gauss+3LL Victor in my 3x LPL TDR-9SE. It was quite easy.

#5 Cyborne Elemental

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 09:42 AM

Here is how you fix the victor.
Posted Image
And never speak of it again.
Until JJ's are actually JJ's, there is no point.

Edited by Mister D, 26 February 2015 - 09:51 AM.


#6 Greenjulius

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 09:45 AM

I'm not really sure what the Victor is good at currently. I've had luck with 2xLPL, 1xAC20 + XL350, but its arms are too low, hardpoints too limited, armor just a little too fragile. It really needs to run fast (for an assault) in order to be effective, but that usually means taking an XL. The side torsos are too big on the Victor to run it safely, but there isn't much choice.

#7 Reno Blade

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 09:49 AM

I would prefere to fix insane damage alphas instead.
The victor is quite good compared to a hunchback in the chaos of 50+ damage blasts.

Biger is not always better.
Lets dial back some things rather than power creeping everything upwards (weather with quirks or weapon balancing).

#8 Fragnot

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 09:54 AM

View PostUltimatum X, on 26 February 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

1) Fix the JJ Turn rate issue that was abandoned due to technical limitations.

2) Increase LT & RT Internal Structure - the days of feeling fast & "tanky" in an XL Victor are quaint in a game full of 89kph Clan XL bearing overlords.

3) Normalize the Missile tubes so you don't have to play mechlab-jenga, and just increase them all to minimum 6 tube launchers.

4) Keep current (very minor) quirks.


I love playing a Victor and these few points address all my issues.

+1

#9 Ultimax

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 10:01 AM

View PostGreenjulius, on 26 February 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

I'm not really sure what the Victor is good at currently. I've had luck with 2xLPL, 1xAC20 + XL350, but its arms are too low, hardpoints too limited, armor just a little too fragile. It really needs to run fast (for an assault) in order to be effective, but that usually means taking an XL. The side torsos are too big on the Victor to run it safely, but there isn't much choice.



Switch the LPLs to MLAS, add SRMs, go bigger on engine.

SRMs add the firepower you lose from the MLAS - which are mostly there for opportunity but ultimate you will shield with and probably lose that arm.

I don't like losing arms containing 14 tons of weapons,

2 tons of weapons is something you can sacrifice and you don't really want to use them too much anyway in order to control your heat.




Alternatively switch to the DS if you own it, and put the LPLs into the Torso. Then you can shave the LA down for more tonnage for build optimization and have a fully ablative arm.

#10 Mcgral18

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 10:24 AM

They could also give us the 9A variant, if they wanted.

Maybe not the best example, but not a terrible loadout Just a teensy bit fragile:

Posted Image

#11 Siko

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 10:25 AM

True, you pretty much have no choice but to run an XL in them. You needed the speed to make up for the lack of maneuverability. When they were more maneuverable an XL engine was only a minor problem . I always brawled with it and did quite well. Played like a fast heavy brawler it still can be quite effective.

Edited by Siko, 26 February 2015 - 10:26 AM.


#12 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 10:31 AM

View PostXX Sulla XX, on 26 February 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

Was thinking about this so thought I would start a thread. The Victor right now is a bit over rated because of how good it was in the past. And at some point it will need quirks to better balance it. So the question is what quirks would be best for game play. Lets start by looking at what it was designed to do.


Sounds real familiar to another mech I know, the Catapult (specifically A1 and K2).

Catapult hasn't been seen as over powering for an even longer time than the Victor, but it's Dual Ballistic, Splat, and Streak impression still haunts the halls of PGI to this day.

It is why us Catapult pilots continue to suffer as you Victor pilots do to this day. Obsolete nerfs that have tainted its name with PGI.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, welcome to the club.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 26 February 2015 - 10:32 AM.


#13 Weaselball

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 10:32 AM

The Victor 9S is my go-to mech for Assault brawling, so if they "fix" whatever is 'broken' with it, then cool :-)

#14 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:17 AM

View PostGreenjulius, on 26 February 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

I'm not really sure what the Victor is good at currently. I've had luck with 2xLPL, 1xAC20 + XL350, but its arms are too low, hardpoints too limited, armor just a little too fragile. It really needs to run fast (for an assault) in order to be effective, but that usually means taking an XL. The side torsos are too big on the Victor to run it safely, but there isn't much choice.

I honestly have trouble understanding this, man.

I hear things like the T-bolt can't run XLs.....all mine run them fine. Centurions don't XL.... run XLs in every single last one. Now, one of the best hitbox designed Assaults, which has always tanked XLs like a boss, is unsafe to run XLs in?

I'm flabbergasted, bro. Some mechs, like the Hunchback, Atlas and Stalker? No, they really can't. Some like the Jagermech and Cataphract and Orion, it's a roll of the dice. But some mechs were born to XL. And the VTR, even with crappy Hover Jets, still XLs like a champ.

#15 Mcgral18

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:23 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 26 February 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

I honestly have trouble understanding this, man.

I hear things like the T-bolt can't run XLs.....all mine run them fine. Centurions don't XL.... run XLs in every single last one. Now, one of the best hitbox designed Assaults, which has always tanked XLs like a boss, is unsafe to run XLs in?


Quirks give it 110 potential ST IS+A.

For reference, the Banshee has 120. That's pretty durable for a mech 30 tons lighter. I wouldn't XL it because of the lack of awesome shoulder pads, but it can be done.

#16 Metus regem

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 11:27 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 26 February 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

I honestly have trouble understanding this, man.

I hear things like the T-bolt can't run XLs.....all mine run them fine. Centurions don't XL.... run XLs in every single last one. Now, one of the best hitbox designed Assaults, which has always tanked XLs like a boss, is unsafe to run XLs in?

I'm flabbergasted, bro. Some mechs, like the Hunchback, Atlas and Stalker? No, they really can't. Some like the Jagermech and Cataphract and Orion, it's a roll of the dice. But some mechs were born to XL. And the VTR, even with crappy Hover Jets, still XLs like a champ.



Bishop, what we see here, is a prime example of a sheepeople, it has become the general concenious of the more tryhards learned people on the board, that IS XL mechs are bad, and must be sent to the bin...

-shrug- some people just need to cling to that, or they can go and experiment, might find that the advice from the tryhards learned people on here, may not be right for them.

#17 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 12:14 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 26 February 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:


Quirks give it 110 potential ST IS+A.

For reference, the Banshee has 120. That's pretty durable for a mech 30 tons lighter. I wouldn't XL it because of the lack of awesome shoulder pads, but it can be done.

VTR is 15 tons lighter than the Banshee...or are you talking the TDR now? :huh:
And...which mech lacks shoulder pads...I'm so confused, cuz the VTR, BNC and TDR all have pretty decent shoulders.

#18 Metus regem

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 12:35 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 26 February 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

VTR is 15 tons lighter than the Banshee...or are you talking the TDR now? :huh:
And...which mech lacks shoulder pads...I'm so confused, cuz the VTR, BNC and TDR all have pretty decent shoulders.



I think he's talking about a Cent running an XL....

#19 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 12:59 PM

View PostMetus regem, on 26 February 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:



I think he's talking about a Cent running an XL....

whole bloody arms are huge on them.

#20 Metus regem

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Posted 26 February 2015 - 01:02 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 26 February 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

whole bloody arms are huge on them.


True, and thanks to you, I now have a YEN-LO-WANG that I love, with a 300XL, thanks again for that build you linked to me a while back, but I tweaked it more to my style.





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