23 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

This goes along with my LRM guide, and can be considered a continuation of it. This is a partner thread where, I get to tell you what I know about spotting. It's probably more difficult than you think, but really easy once you know how to do it.

Any LRM boat pilot (which I am not, but I do still carry LRMs), can probably tell you that they hate people who can't spot. Here is how you can help yourself, and your LRM team mates, to get the job done.

- Unless you are in an enemy ECM field, you share target data with all friendlies.
- You do NOT share data that is just you looking at them. Spotting isn't just seeing the enemy, but actually relaying that information back to your friends.
- Data is relayed when you have a lock on a foe. That means, press R to lock on to a target.
- If you loose your lock, so does your allies. Weather it be from ECM interfering, losing line of sight, having your target get behind you, etc. If you lose lock, so does any support you might have.
- Keep your locks. Don't change your lock every two seconds. If you do, then your LRM users will want to kill you. The more solid you can keep a lock on a target, the more likely friendly LRMs are to be able to get to said target.
- "Spot" targets that you need help with. Something that the LRMs can do the most good with.
- If you have ECM, don't forget there is a second mod. The counter mode will turn off one enemy ECM in range. (Hint, if you have an ECM target, you might want to cut it's ECM AND lock on. That way, when your allies see the ECM crossed out on the enemy as well as target information, most LRM users just LOVE to pelt them a little revenge.)
- If you have ECM, and is fighting a mech with loads of SSRMs or LRMs that were shooting at your friends, now might actually be a good time to keep your ECM up. Us LRM users like people to spot for us, but not if it's going to cost you your mech to do so. If you see a SSRM stalker, for example, keep their SSRMs turned off. Save yourself the damage on this one. Any LRM boat who argues against you on this one, is a glory hound and should be ignored.
- Don't keep your lock on things that LRMs can't help with. Unless you need the data yourself, lock on to targets that the LRMs can help with. Ex: You have a fast mech that keeps ducking behind cover, or an Atlas standing in the open. Lock the Atlas, as he's got no cover for the LRMs. Hunt the fast mech as best you can.
- COMMON MISBELIEF: You do NOT need special gear, such as TAG or NARC to spot. Anyone can do so, provided ECM isn't messing it all up.
- If you aren't seeing LRMs coming in, either your team has none (I would hope LRM users would announce themselves, but you can always ask if anyone has LRMs) or they are being blocked my some obstructions. If you suspect a hill might be in the way, try to lure the target out into the open, where your friends can help, LRM users and non-LRMs.
- NEW: If you see a symbol near your Target that looks like 3 missiles, KEEP THAT LOCK! LRMs are on their way, and we really wouldn't want them to loose that lock half way through and end up missing, would we? (Note: LRMs require a lock the whole time missiles are in flight if they are to track and home into a target. Loosing a lock half way through it's flight can be very... detrimental.) Only time you should break a lock like this, is if your own survival depends upon it. Otherwise, keep it till the incoming missile symbol disappears, which should be with explosions of LRMs on them. (If you don't see the LRMs hitting after the symbol disapears, feel free to break the lock by that point.)
- Even if you have LRMs, always try to spot for yourself. Hiding and trying to avoid combat by using only indirect fire LRMs usually is not that effective. An LRM boat's spot is in the back, behind their allies, but not so far back no one can help them. Be near your allies, and not too far. That way, you can spot for yourself with better accuracy and have support if people get too close to you.

TAG:
- TAG does not last forever. You need to keep a target in the TAG beam the whole time. If you lose your hit with it, you have a few moments to bring it back before the effects of TAG are lost.
- TAG is not a TAG and forget weapon. Keep it on them like you are hitting with a laser.
- TAG improves grouping of missiles when a target is being hit by it.
- TAG does not (as far as I can tell, I could be wrong here) improve lock on times. Just missile cluster.
- If an opponent is hit with any missiles while being TAGed, you get a nice bonus.
- TAG does no effect once the user with TAG is inside an ECM bubble. However, TAG can mark someone inside ECM if the TAGing unit is outside the ECM bubble and TAGing into the bubble.

NARC:
- NARC makes a target lockable to your whole team for a short while after they have been hit by the NARC pod.
- NARC is suppose to make a target targetable by all allies, till it runs out of time.
- Is suppose to improve cluster hits for LRMs. Untested by me at this time.
- Does not work if the unit hit with NARC is inside ECM.

Artemis:
- If you, the spotter, has Artemis but are not shooting missiles at the target, your Artemis DOES NOT provide any bonuses to allied missiles. It only works on your own missiles.
- If you are the one with the LRMs, Artemis does not cut through ECM, but it does improve lock on time, and cluster.
- Artemis (from a spotting point of view) is useless. It will not help your team mates at all, and only helps yourself.



To sum this all up, basically, just lock on to someone with R, and keep that lock onto the same until you no longer can, find a better target, or you/they are dead. Do not sacrifice yourself for a spot if you can survive otherwise. Keep locks as much as possible. That means, keep your eyes on the enemy you intend to spot, and don't let them leave your sight.

Spotting is a team dynamic. It is to help provide information for your team, and to help you "call in support" from other units in your team. Though it might result in some "kill stealing", killing a target is not the goal. Winning the engagement is your goal. If the LRMs take the kill, don't worry about it and go on. They are doing their job in providing your support, usually at great peril to themselves. (If they boat the LRMs, they gain a great penalty of a 180m minimum range, where the LRMs will do nothing at all.)

This is a team game. Treat it as such. Spot for yourself. Spot for your team. You and your team should be counted as one. Share Victory. Share Defeat. You do not win alone.

[GrimReality]

Pin worthy.


Although, TAG does decrease the amount of time it takes to lock on (perhaps not for teammates, but it does for you). Source: http://mwomercs.com/...0089-breakdown/

Edited by GrimReality, 02 March 2013 - 10:47 PM.

[Tesunie]

If TAG does decrease lock on time, I have not noticed it. My wingman tried it for SSRMs and it didn't work there. I've also tried it for my LRMs and didn't notice it being any faster.

I could be wrong, as I don't use TAG often...

[Wytchwood]

As someone who just found joy in the Electronic Warfare Raven, thanks

[Tesunie]

Wytchwood, on 03 March 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

As someone who just found joy in the Electronic Warfare Raven, thanks

Just don't forget you can counter as well as disrupt. press j to change ECM mode (default key bindings).

[Tesunie]

Bump for bumping sake...

[Tesunie]

I feel this topic is important, especially to ECM users. Don't know how many times it would have benefited the team if our ECM user just countered the enemy ECM...

[Tesunie]

Surprised I'm not getting more of a response from this, or do people not care about spotting for allies who could possibly steal a kill from you...?

[Jukebox1986]

Tesunie, on 02 March 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

- Keep your locks. Don't change your lock every two seconds. If you do, then your LRM users will want to kill you. The more solid you can keep a lock on a target, the more likely friendly LRMs are to be able to get to said target.
- "Spot" targets that you need help with. Something that the LRMs can do the most good with.
- If you have ECM, don't forget there is a second mod. The counter mode will turn off one enemy ECM in range. (Hint, if you have an ECM target, you might want to cut it's ECM AND lock on. That way, when your allies see the ECM crossed out on the enemy as well as target information, most LRM users just LOVE to pelt them a little revenge.)
- If you have ECM, and is fighting a mech with loads of SSRMs or LRMs that were shooting at your friends, now might actually be a good time to keep your ECM up. Us LRM users like people to spot for us, but not if it's going to cost you your mech to do so. If you see a SSRM stalker, for example, keep their SSRMs turned off. Save yourself the damage on this one. Any LRM boat who argues against you on this one, is a glory hound and should be ignored.

I´m mostly piloting a C1 with 2 LRM 15/3 ML and TAG. Every scout who reads this^, please pay attention to it.

I love to help my teammates. I love to pummel enemy scouts. I take every possible shot at a countered ECM-Mech. If a scout needs help (and uses the "rules" above), im the one who´s shooting first. You can have every kill, im just the can-opener and i have no problem with it.

Lock Targets.
Keep Locks.
Stay Save.

Just let me light em up, so you can bring em down.

[SirriusLee]

At the beginning of a match I try to spot as many enemy as I can to give my teamates an idea of where they are, then I lock onto one.I always target the enemy mech Im attacking, or an LRM boat thats raining down missles on my team, if I can.I wish more people would target their mechs so everyone else knows where the enemy is.I use my 2nd mouse button to target, so that I can switch between targets really fast.

[McOrion]

Great job! This guide has been translated in Italian at: http://mwomercs.com/...are-i-bersagli/

I would be glad to add some notes about author. Please contact me in private!

McOrion

Edited by McOrion, 09 March 2013 - 12:34 PM.

[Red3]

And as a reminder to those of you use this guide

Lrm boats are always going to blame you for not holding a lock long enough. Regardless of the circumstances.

Get used to it.

[liku]

If i am correct:
tag reduce time to get a lock
bap do the same
artemis do the same
but they do not stack

[Tesunie]

liku, on 12 March 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

If i am correct:
tag reduce time to get a lock
bap do the same
artemis do the same
but they do not stack

TAG: Maybe. It does improve missile cluster, and I've been able to confirm that. Lock on time has not been able to be confirmed by me at this time.
BAP: No. It only decreases the amount of time it takes to get target data. Has nothing to do with Lock on time. Also, it can detect shut down mechs that are nearby and let you target them. (AKA: Is really only helpful for expanding radar targeting range, target data time, and letting you keep a target on an overheated shut down mech...)
Artemis: Only system I have been able to confirm to reduce the lock on times. I have no see this benefit with TAG yet, though it might and I'm just not noticing it.

Red3, on 11 March 2013 - 12:06 AM, said:

And as a reminder to those of you use this guide

Lrm boats are always going to blame you for not holding a lock long enough. Regardless of the circumstances.

Get used to it.

I'll only mutter behind my screen. I understand combat can be fast, and unpredictable. I will though get annoyed deeply if I see someone locking on, I shoot missiles, and then the person changes targets three or four times after my missiles are in the air...

Personally, if you have to duck behind cover and break your lock or die, I'd rather my spotter survive and continue to fight. Spotting is a request that makes my life easier if you can. Then again, I'm a missile user that tries to spot for myself as much as I can.

[Sol Reapr]

Not related to the topic of spotting but;
I believe that LRMs only benefit from Artemis when you have direct line of sight to the target. Artemis benefits do not apply to indirect fire.

[Tesunie]

Sol Reapr, on 13 March 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Not related to the topic of spotting but;
I believe that LRMs only benefit from Artemis when you have direct line of sight to the target. Artemis benefits do not apply to indirect fire.

Yes. As far as I know, and as far as the devs have told us. Artemis only works when the shooter has direct line of sight to the target. Otherwise, for indirect fire, it acts as though Artemis wasn't there (except for lock on speed I believe. Have not tested).

[Red3]

Tesunie, on 13 March 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

I'll only mutter behind my screen. I understand combat can be fast, and unpredictable. I will though get annoyed deeply if I see someone locking on, I shoot missiles, and then the person changes targets three or four times after my missiles are in the air...

Thank you for making my point for me. If you dont know why the teammate changed targets, you have no reason to be annoyed. It may have been any number of reasons, and not all of those reasons are something they can control.Many Scouts will cycle through all the targets they have in order to convey this info to the rest of the team quickly,usually at the start of the match, as its far easier to do that while evading fire than to type "3 targets in C4". Not everyone has those kind of typing skills. I know i dont. If your shooting missiles at the very first target your scout aquires, your doing it wrong

Many times I have seen LRM'ers go on insulting tirades because their teammates dont hold a Target until their missiles land. In fact I bet you can find half a dozen threads here on the forums on the subject.

At the beginning of this guide you say :

Tesunie, on 02 March 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

It's probably more difficult than you think, but really easy once you know how to do it.

And i just have to say, it gets easier with practice, but it'll never be really easy.

Your guide here is obviously written from a LRM'ers perspective, and it makes me wonder if you have ever attempted to play a dedicated spotter. I have. I suggest you buy yourself a ecm spider, drop a Tag on it. Learn the pro's and cons. Then update this guide accordingly. Being A dedicated spotter is no fun,and noone is ever going to thank you, or even acknowledge that you did a good job. But sure enough they will come to the forums and brag about their 7 kills and 1300+ damage match,with no mention of the Amazing spotter that helped them achieve it. And yes, thats the Exact reason I sold my Spider.

The Tactics for spotting are vastly different than scouting,brawling, or harassing. Holding a target while Brawling is not spotting. Holding a target after sneaking behind enemy lines to harass the opposing teams LRM boats is not spotting.Using ECM to counter another ECM is not spotting. Scouting only requires LOS to the target, and communication, and is not spotting.You come across like you think they are all the same thing,but they are not. Obviously some of these roles have an overlap,a scout can certainly also spot, and a brawler should be able to hold a target. But a good spotter plays very much like a good LRM boat,they stay out of the fray and use the terrain to get the best vantage point to aquire targets from, all the while trying not to bring attention to themselves.

I realize you have the best of intentions in making this guide, and I feel a little bad for trolling it, but you seem to think the only acceptable reason someone shouldn't be able to hold a target is to save their own hide. Maybe Im wrong, but even after you mention a few other reasons why locks can be broken,you go on to repeat that the only reason one should break lock is to avoid being turned in to slag.

1)Can the spotter help it if an ECM mech gets close enough to their target that the ECM causes them to lose the target?

2)Can the spotter help it if an ECM mech gets close enough to them to cause them to stop sharing the target info?

3)Can the spotter help it if thier target runs behind a building, breaking LOS?

4)Can the spotter help it if their target overheats and powers down makeing them untargetable?

The first 3 reasons happen alot, far more than you seem to think by the looks of things. The 4th is not as common, but it does happen, especially on the Caustic Valley map, and probably happens more often in the lower ELO rankings.

You say you try to spot for yourself as much as you can, and I commend you for that, not all LRM'ers do. More often than not the ones who complain about targets are the ones who sit back at max range,and have no idea whats going on on the front lines. They expect people to hold their targets for 9-10 seconds while their missiles travel 900m+,and alot of times thats just not possible.

LRM Boats choose to play a support role,your supposed to be supporting us, not the other way around.

As a final note: Being a good spotter takes alot more skill than simply pressing the R button.

Edited by Red3, 14 March 2013 - 06:58 PM.

[Tesunie]

Red3, on 14 March 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Thank you for making my point for me. If you dont know why the teammate changed targets, you have no reason to be annoyed. It may have been any number of reasons, and not all of those reasons are something they can control.Many Scouts will cycle through all the targets they have in order to convey this info to the rest of the team quickly,usually at the start of the match, as its far easier to do that while evading fire than to type "3 targets in C4". Not everyone has those kind of typing skills. I know i dont. If your shooting missiles at the very first target your scout aquires, your doing it wrong

Many times I have seen LRM'ers go on insulting tirades because their teammates dont hold a Target until their missiles land. In fact I bet you can find half a dozen threads here on the forums on the subject.

I don't mind people doing the rotation "they are over here" targeting. But it's really annoying when they continue to do it well into the fight and we all ready know where they are. I've observed this behavior when spectating, and it's helpful as an open, but in the middle of the match when LRMs are trying to hit targets to help, it's just painful to watch. After the scouting "rotate through", it'd be nice if you can settle your lock onto someone for the team to help with.

For the most part, I think we are in agreement here though. I don't always know why someone looses a lock, and it's annoying, and I'll be muttering to my screen that I lost the lock, but I don't blame the spotter. Combat happens.

LRM users who boast of their "skills" and brag about their damages and kills need to get a wake up call. Unless they did all that spotting on their own, more than likely they had help. Reminds me of the time I managed to take out 4 mechs with a legged Cicada and won the game. It was only because the rest of my team so heavily damaged the enemy, even if they did die doing so, that I was able to kill them one after another. I might have done the killing blow, but the team, dead or not, still participated and made it possible. People need to give the team more credit than they do.

Red3, on 14 March 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Your guide here is obviously written from a LRM'ers perspective, and it makes me wonder if you have ever attempted to play a dedicated spotter. I have. I suggest you buy yourself a ecm spider, drop a Tag on it. Learn the pro's and cons. Then update this guide accordingly. Being A dedicated spotter is no fun,and noone is ever going to thank you, or even acknowledge that you did a good job. But sure enough they will come to the forums and brag about their 7 kills and 1300+ damage match,with no mention of the Amazing spotter that helped them achieve it. And yes, thats the Exact reason I sold my Spider.

I did that once actually. Had a Spider with Tag and a PPC. My goal was simple, jump into odd places and just TAG. Shoot only when needed. It is completely different, and it tends to be an underplayed role that gets no praise, is hard to do (and do well) and does very little damage. It should be a larger role, but this guide was written (yes with LRMs in mind) as a response to questions I would get in game.

When I'm toting LRMs, even if it's just 20 tubes of them, I always ask for people to spot if they can do so without getting themselves killed. I often times got the response of "I don't have TAG or NARC. Sorry I can't spot for you." They didn't know what spotting was. Anyone can spot in this game, even if you aren't dedicating yourself to being a spotter. Just the act of locking on is spotting, though doing it well can be challenging. Spotting and surviving can be hard too. Spotting and knowing when to keep a lock and when to break and run is another skill.

I wrote this with a perspective of LRM users in mind, but I had my reasons. The reason was that spotting, though it is often helpful to the whole team, is particularly useful and primarily important to support LRM users. Spotting effects LRM users more than anyone else in the game probably, but LRM users should never expect the team to do all the hard work as they rake in the kills and damage. If someone wants to be a dedicated spotter, they would need more than just what this guide has. I just wanted to cover the basics of spotting, but if I was to add in the spotter as a role into the guide, I would cover facts such as TAG doesn't register as damage, so a "victim" being spotted with TAG will never know you are there. Thus, a target thinks they are safe, till the warnings start going off and they start to try and break lock, only to find they can't somehow. (ECM Spider hiding on top of a roof behind them... can make for a nasty surprise, if they don't find you.)

Red3, on 14 March 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

The Tactics for spotting are vastly different than scouting,brawling, or harassing. Holding a target while Brawling is not spotting. Holding a target after sneaking behind enemy lines to harass the opposing teams LRM boats is not spotting.Using ECM to counter another ECM is not spotting. Scouting only requires LOS to the target, and communication, and is not spotting.You come across like you think they are all the same thing,but they are not. Obviously some of these roles have an overlap,a scout can certainly also spot, and a brawler should be able to hold a target. But a good spotter plays very much like a good LRM boat,they stay out of the fray and use the terrain to get the best vantage point to aquire targets from, all the while trying not to bring attention to themselves.

I think you misread my intentions, or the guide itself. I'm just telling people how to relay information to an LRM support user so they can aid with a target. I've seen a lot of brawlers and players in general not target at all when I've spectated them. This guide is to encourage people to press R and target. It works better if they do, and even better than that if they can keep the lock on one target, especially if one sees the incoming missile icon. If you are already taking damage and are brawling, getting LRMs to support your efforts will only help (I suspect a lot of people don't lock on, because they don't want someone else to get the all important kill on them, which is also wrong when winning the match is the goal. Shouldn't matter to the LRM user if you get the kill, or they do. It's a team effort.). However, this guide is not to tell people to just rush over there, lock on a target, and die while the LRMs are coming and claim they are spotting for you. Your own survival is important too. You can't help the team if you are dead.

I would also hope that any person would understand that targets can be lost for a lot of reasons: Death of spotter, line of sight blocked, ECM, being forced to change targets for your own survival (pin pointing damage to already damaged sections), for your own SSRMs to lock, etc. It's annoying, but it's expected. I switch targets myself to whomever I am shooting at, so that I can tell where to aim for. I sorta expect other people to do so as well, unless you know your team has a lot of LRM users, then I'd hope that they (and myself as well) could break the habit and hold a lock on one target prime for the LRMs.

Red3, on 14 March 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

I realize you have the best of intentions in making this guide, and I feel a little bad for trolling it, but you seem to think the only acceptable reason someone shouldn't be able to hold a target is to save their own hide. Maybe Im wrong, but even after you mention a few other reasons why locks can be broken,you go on to repeat that the only reason one should break lock is to avoid being turned in to slag.

I'd just like to confirm, survival is not the only reason to break a lock. I just wanted to emphasize the fact that you shouldn't die for someone else's missiles. You should aim for survival and victory as much as anything else. Even as a spotter, a dead spotter spots no more. Also, once more, I understand that locks can be broken by lots of things. One of the reasons I also encourage LRM users to spot for yourself. You'll get more reliable results if you do/can.

Basically, the reason I stated to break locks if you need to for your survival is, I don't want someone to spot to their death. I don't expect someone else to die so I can get kills and damage. I do expect my team to aid me in causing damage, and thus aid the team in destroying the enemy and winning, but not at the cost of their own damage potential, positioning in the field, and their own survival. Any LRM user who expects their team to die spotting for them so they can cause the damage, is being a glory hound. They should have the tactical sense to understand that, they are supporting the team, as the team should support them. Not the team is their fodder so they can look better/do better.

Red3, on 14 March 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

1)Can the spotter help it if an ECM mech gets close enough to their target that the ECM causes them to lose the target?

Nope. I don't blame them. If I can't see what's happening though, I might be confused why it happens. This is like asking if it's the teams fault an ECM mech parked it's butt next to my LRMs and made me unable to lock on. It's not their fault. It's combat.

Red3, on 14 March 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

2)Can the spotter help it if an ECM mech gets close enough to them to cause them to stop sharing the target info?

Same as before. Nope. Combat happens. ECM messes targeting and data sharing. Can't blame them anymore than I can if an ECM mech disrupts my own locks and missiles.

Red3, on 14 March 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

3)Can the spotter help it if thier target runs behind a building, breaking LOS?

Possibly, but probably not. It probably also isn't worth chasing behind them to try and keep the lock. Could be a trap, could pull you out of a good position, etc.

Red3, on 14 March 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

4)Can the spotter help it if their target overheats and powers down makeing them untargetable?

They should have BAP! Wait... nevermind. No. Once more, it isn't their fault, though if they ignored the perfect opportunity to shoot an shut down enemy, I might want to have words with them, unless they are taking this time to "vanish" if they know they are out matched. But lets face it, if you enemy is shutting down, you probably have them on the ropes and should keep pressing on.

Red3, on 14 March 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

The first 3 reasons happen alot, far more than you seem to think by the looks of things. The 4th is not as common, but it does happen, especially on the Caustic Valley map, and probably happens more often in the lower ELO rankings.

I know they happen. But I just strongly wanted to press that you should look out for your own survival, unless you think that you can make your death be a victory for the team. If you stall an entire team in one place, keeping them from pressing into a weak spot (or capping the base or something), then get yourself killed in glory. Otherwise, I expect people to be smart enough to not pull suicide to try and help someone else get damage and kills. (I've done this myself. Ran into a situation I knew I was not walking out of, just to stall the team as much as I could. Ended up stalling them enough for my team to win, even if I died in the process. I had a good group of PUGs then, and was actually congratulated on the stall. It was a "good day to die" that time.)

Red3, on 14 March 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

You say you try to spot for yourself as much as you can, and I commend you for that, not all LRM'ers do. More often than not the ones who complain about targets are the ones who sit back at max range,and have no idea whats going on on the front lines. They expect people to hold their targets for 9-10 seconds while their missiles travel 900m+,and alot of times thats just not possible.

LRM Boats choose to play a support role,your supposed to be supporting us, not the other way around.

As a final note: Being a good spotter takes alot more skill than simply pressing the R button.

I feel all LRM users should learn to spot for themselves. It helps keep you closer to allies to help you out, and keeps you more alert on what is happening and can provide better accuracy for your missiles. Or you might be doing better suppression fire, keeping targets hidden behind cover with missile warnings that normally wouldn't have happened otherwise with a spotter.

You are a team. LRMs are support, so they should be supporting you. But on the same hand, you should be supporting them. If everyone does their job effectively as a team, then the team should do well. LRM users need a lock to support, which means they require your support to be at their best. At the same time, they need your support, or people get too close and kill them. Share Victory. Share Defeat.

Being a spotter does take a lot of skill. To just spot in general does not. It's like my statement with LRMs. To simply use them doesn't require much skill. To get a lock and shoot isn't hard. However, to keep a lock, guide them into a hit, knowing what to shoot, when to shoot, what not to shoot and (the hardest part) knowing how to blind fire the LRMs requires skill. I think the same mentality can be applied to spotting. To spot in and of itself requires little skill (press R and get the lock). To be a spotter requires skill (bring TAG or NARC to punch through ECM. Knowing what targets to spot for the LRMs, that LRMs will be most effective against. Being able to keep said lock on for the entire duration of the missile rain. Surviving and reducing your own threat level to be ignored while spotting. Knowing where to spot from and where your LRMs are coming from to provide targets your LRMs can actually use (spotting for LRMs inside the tunnel = not a good spotter or LRM user if he shoots that target). Etc.), and probably a lot more skill than most other roles. It's also a huge sacrifice to give up your own attacking powers just to spot for someone else.

(If something is miss worded, it's far too late for me as I was typing this. So, please, give me some grace if I missaid something or something sounds ruder than I intended. I think we agree on a lot of points. And, I'd say you aren't trolling the thread, just bringing up some well founded concerns.)

[Forestal]

Tesunie, on 19 March 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

I don't mind people doing the rotation "they are over here" targeting. But it's really annoying when they continue to do it well into the fight and we all ready know where they are. I've observed this behavior when spectating, and it's helpful as an open, but in the middle of the match when LRMs are trying to hit targets to help, it's just painful to watch. After the scouting "rotate through", it'd be nice if you can settle your lock onto someone for the team to help with.

For the most part, I think we are in agreement here though. I don't always know why someone looses a lock, and it's annoying, and I'll be muttering to my screen that I lost the lock, but I don't blame the spotter. Combat happens.

Speaking for myself, it was only when I was practising my sniper build that I realize the key to successful/effective "spotting" is staying OUT OF COMBAT...


I was actually trying to line up a target in my reticle when a team-mate landed a lrm volley on my target and the "spot bonus" message come up-- only then did I realize that the team-mate was even further from the target than I was, and could only maintain target-lock because I was doing the targeting.

And the target probably had no idea from WHERE/which direction to get under cover because my lrm team-mate was not even in range or line-of-sight for him-- he could very well be running away from me into my team-mate's fire.


IOW, "spotting" tends not to be the primary purposes or functions of those "scouts" running about the front lines-- cos targets would just be popping in and out of their effective sensor range... not to mention the fact they were more likely to find themselves engage in combat (and be "forced" to target whoever is attacking them, vs the "best" target for the lrms).

Good "spotters" are more often those FORWARD "sniper" builds (vs heavy "snipers" staying in the back, who are't really in a position to spot) who are set up in their "crow's next" doing the whole "watch-tower/look-out" thing-- cycling through possible targets before KEEPING their eye/targeting on the likeliest or most important ONE, waiting for it to pop into line-of-sight.


Suffice it to say, "Spotting" is almost a "full-time job"-- you can't be moving about or even "scouting" when you are trying to help your team-mates maintain target-lock-- but it is also a "temp-job" in that you have to have a lrm boat to work for before it is any use... not to mention that it is somewhat of a waiting game, which is very boring to a lot of brawling "scouts"

So I can't really see anyone else racking up "spot bonuses" except for builds like my Trebbie Sniper-- I have ridiculously low "Game Scores" because I don't really kill/damage anyone (yeah, my aim still sucks), but I "mastered" it rather quickly due to my xp bonus/gains (on top of the xp for helping my team to win).


So thanks for all the attention you've lavished on the unsung "Spotter"-- fortunately, all the clueless brawlers asking for lrms to be nerfed don't even think or realize that "Spotters" are doing a essential part of the job or "damage"!

Haven't had the time to read through or test out the rest of your post/guide... will get back to you if/when I have more to add-- assuming those "lrm-whiners" don't wise up and ask for "spotting" to be nerfed?

Edited by Forestal, 20 March 2013 - 06:41 PM.

[Serpentbane]

I'm often playing as an LRM'er too, but I've come to be a front line kind of LRM'er. The reason for this is the fact that I can't rely on other people spotting and keeping locks long enough. The main reason for this is that most people do not play as dedicated spotters, and will change or loose targets to soon. In pertiular when one are shooting from 1000m. This gives the enemy too much reaction time, and spotter will to often break off.

The man problem is lack of real comunication, and people not using what little exist. I smply do not know who's keeping the lock, and whos just circeling trough targets.

In any case, while only relying on others and operaing at extended ranges, I loose to many of my missiles. And missile boating a wining round with less than 500dmg is a weak regardless of number of kills. You should be up at about 800dmg. If you're not, then you're loosing to many missiles. Only exeptions are when th enemy team sports high number of ECM/AMS equiped mechs.

That's why I'm usually on the front line, shooting from less than 400m. I also stream LRM's instead of shooting all at the same time. This way the enemy mech is distracted and does less damage to me and friendlies. Also, at this range I'm more able to keep up with the quick target cyceling of friendly units. I pretty much keep the stream running, changing targest as they apear. In some matches one must just accept that no target were kept for more then 5-10 sek, and do what's possible to keep the missiles hit. At 1000m you're not going to hit ****, at 180-300m you would still deal some damage.

I also often sport combinations of LRM/SSRM setups, and strive to maintain that 180/270m range when ingageing. I never finish my LRM's before moving in.